Quote: We got home and I said to BB, "you seem distant."
I would advise against this sort of comment. I think this lets her know she "got" to you. I would vote for either ignoring her distancing, OR taking some kind of action WITH NO COMMENT, such as, walking up to her and giving her a quick hug, kiss, arm/shoulder squeeze or something. Don't talk about what you're doing. Be less verbal and more action-oriented/physical. Pretend she's from another country and doesn't speak a word of English (not too far from the truth when it comes to R stuff )
As for the car shopping... that is a dilemma. I would say go ahead a look at cars, but make it clear you will not buy. Don't budge on this and don't discuss or give reasons (she knows the reasons) or try to change her mind or point of view. Don't reason with her. This may be her clumsy way of trying to "engage" you. Be firm and strong and don't try to control her-- just refuse to buy the car.
I suspect (and certainly could be wrong) that the back and forth banter where she tries to convince you to buy a car and you give her a zillion long-winded reasons why you don't want to, etc., is quite emotionally stimulating to her. I think this is how she gets her emotional goodies from you-- by kicking off one of these "discussions" that aren't really discussions. That's why I'm suggesting you lovingly BE there for her but do not reward or engage her attempts to get into a debate on that subject (or any other subject, for that matter).
About We got home and I said to BB, "you seem distant." I said that to let BB know I was aware of a problem but was not stepping in her crap.
Quote: As for the car shopping... that is a dilemma. I would say go ahead a look at cars, but make it clear you will not buy.
I don't think I can go anymore. I see her current car sitting in the driveway, most of the depreciation has happened, 39K miles, 4 wheel drive, she drives 3K miles a year, new tires, and then look at something that costs $18K more to do the same job and depreciates several thousand a year. At that rate, why work, why invest, why try to make financial improvements after all of the work I put in getting ahead. 40 years of work frittered away in 10 years.
It makes about as much sence as not smoking, exercising hard every day, eating almost perfectly then go running with the bulls in Spain only to be trampled and severely injured and maybe wheelchair bound for 6 months and say you would do it again. But that is my emotions talking.
Quote: I think this is how she gets her emotional goodies from you-- by kicking off one of these "discussions" that aren't really discussions.
Sounds reasonable Lil. BB said she always talked with her girlfriends (Jr high age) about all of the things they would have when they grew up. Now that the money is there, some of her teenaged dreams are playing out. It does not help that she has friends and relatives that buy what they want if they can make the payments or swing the loan. I am the opposite. Keep what works, pay cash.
Quote: OR taking some kind of action WITH NO COMMENT, such as, walking up to her and giving her a quick hug, kiss, arm/shoulder squeeze or something.
That sounds like I would be comforting or rescuing her and making the crucible kind of soft jawed. I need the hug too BTW but don't want to give her an easy out. At times like these, including the last year, I know why people look for OW/M or why OP relationships develope.
Quote: Tell her if she wants the car to go back to work and pay for it herself.
BB said it is her money (savings, inheritance, and investments) too.
Quote: (come on, you MUST like it, you've been doing it for many years!)
If having something makes someone happy, really happy, I could see buying something. BB's buy, use, replace with something advertised heavily when the old is still good is what I object to. I am a use it wear it out, BB is a buy it, use it, the color is wrong/tired of looking at it, get something new.
So, no I don't like it. I want the merri-go-round to slow down and it never really goes any where, just round and round.
Well Lou, I do think that she should have some say in what happens to the joint monies--savings, investments, inheritances, etc.
However, I also think she should have her own money--and should be able to spend it however she wishes. If she wants to trade in a perfectly good car for another perfectly good car, let her. What's it to you? Yes, it's wasteful but you are not her. She doesn't have the same values as you do, regarding material things. You are NEVER going to get her to "see the light" in this sense. You're just different. The best thing to do, imo, is to let her handle it herself. If she wants to waste money on buying and more buying, let her do it alone. Get a job and finance the shopping addiction herself. BUT, she still has to contribute to the household stuff too, 50%.
I think that the shopping bothers you more on a value-system basis rather than on a financial basis. But, the things with that is that there's no way to make HER have the same values as you do. That's really a losing battle, kwim?
It seems like the two of you spend an awful lot of time trying to reshape the others' value system. She wants you to not be a packrat pennypincher and you want her to not be a frivolous shopoholic. Rather than trying to change the value system, perhaps you can go about changing the specific behaviors that drive the other batty. You can clean out the inventory at a speed that works for the both of you (nope, not ever gonna stop harping on that one! ) and she can handle her shopping by herself, paying attention to your joint budget as well as her solitary spending. At your cores, she will still be a more material person than you are but perhaps you can learn to live with those differences if you do not feel that you are responsible for keeping the other in line.
Quote: Re HP Quote: ------------------------------------------------------------ Tell her if she wants the car to go back to work and pay for it herself.
Well I did walk up to BB and compliment her on doing a long exercise program today.
Back up a little. Earlier you quoted yourself as saying to BB "you seem distant." My suggestion was to do the quick hug, touch, whatever INSTEAD OF commenting on her mood. To do the touch AT THAT MOMENT, not later. To interact with her physically rather than verbally.
By commenting on her mood you let her know you noticed it, that she "got" to you, and I don't think that's a particularly good thing. By simply going up to her and giving her a quick pat that she doesn't even have time to respond to and DOING IT WITHOUT ANY COMMENT you leave her wondering. AND THEN LET HER WONDER. I think a quick physical interaction will make her feel good, and because there are no words attached to it, she will have a harder time talking herself out of feeling good. It will be outside the verbal arena.
As for commenting when she's exercising... I just wish you could walk up to her and maybe pat her hip or tummy or whatever she's working on and just make an appreciative noise or smile or wink or something WITHOUT USING ANY WORDS. The words seem to set up a reverberation in her head-- should she agree, should she argue, what's he up to, what does he want-- a touch with no comment is below the mental radar, as it were.
RE Hp. We have family members that have perfectly good furniture they bought in 1958 and other family members that owe tons on credit cards, are stressed out by the collection calls but buy eye candy things for their cars to the tune of $1,500. We have self-made, almost millionaires, and people who ask for advance loans on an inheritance they think they will get. Both are too much for me.
About the separate funds and not getting in BB's finances, I tried that and was mostly silent for many years. Then when she spent $12,000 on things one year, I decided I did not want to live with her anymore and said so. BB admitted that something had to be done, she was out of control and wanted us to stay together. The shopping gradually dropped but so did the sex and other physical things.
Quote: I think that the shopping bothers you more on a value-system basis rather than on a financial basis.
You are right. If we did not have good cars and could utilize a $21,000 vehicle, I would buy it eventually.
You have religious reasons for not MBing that I think "get over it" this whole pope and church doctron is more about controlling people collectively than about love and treating individuals so they can function on a higher level. I was exposed to some dogmatic views but see them as detrimental to individuals collectively.
To tie this in to where I am now, I see $$ waste as an economic wrong, kind of like something people do to some future generation or to some deprived people.
If someone said "Lou you life depends on ( from our retirement account) buying yourself a new Hummer today or you have to give $50,000 to buy a shipment of corn meal that is being sent to Africa," I would look out my window and see my 1985 Dodge Caravan with 150,000 miles on it but runs well and say "I guess some people are going to have lunch in Africa." I know this does not make sense to some people. I believe in the American way of working for what you get but realize not everyone has the opportunities we have.
Quote: You can clean out the inventory at a speed that works for the both of you (nope, not ever gonna a stop harping on that one!
HP, you are right on this one. I have too much that used to be worth more, but some of the printers are being scrapped, not because they don't work, but because people think they are "old" and something might go wrong with them. I can't change enough people to make my inventory more in demand and valuable. So keep harping on me in this area friend.
Quote: perhaps you can learn to live with those differences if you do not feel that you are responsible for keeping the other in line....Whatcha think.
The wasteful spending is a core issue with me, maybe like no MBing is for you. and I am thing about limited MBing in your case. Sorry for the sexual example but that is what I just read.
I have read articles about how some new procedure or manufacturing process is going to drastically improve a product, mostly automotive related, then I get to work on the cars and think, "nice on paper but a flop in real life" or "nice on paper but you forgot to include all of the additional problems the idea causes."
What I am getting at is, Yes on paper I could mentally separate what I think are reasonable purchased from what BB purchases but the core feelings are still there and that causes a loss of respect for her.
Bb believes in some other things that I find questionable and 99% non scientific.
I did most of the financial work, now BB wants to live a semi-free spirit life and be with me but not controlled by me. To me it is similar to where the parents make a family fortune only to have the kids blow it having fun. Not that bad in our situation but some elements are true.
HP I don't intend to offend you or GGB for your religious beliefs, or to try to change your mind. I have been in group counseling where several of the group members said they were recovering Catholics, from various guilt complexes induced during childhood or through their 30's/40's. I don't know what to think sometimes. Religious theory, scientific laws as we know them, what is fair and reasonable. The last one seems to work for me.
I have more to say but don't have it organized so better quit. Too many ideas to solve and I should stick to one subject.
Quote: does your wife contribute equally or proportionately to your household's cost of living?
Until recently she contributed some of her income and spent most of it on herself. One MC we went to said that is how it should be. I did not know it at the time but the C was a "womans issues C".
When her mother died, BB's inheritance went into a joint retirement account. BB took $7,000 at that time and bought things we already had that were good but hardly used. She spent another $5,200 on things from infomercials, QVC, TV commercials, from her pay check. she did something similar to this the previous 2 years but only spent $3,000 on heavly advertised items, QVC, newspaper adds for personal things. We had, she hauls stuff in, I haul things to the donation store for a while. i know i should have made BB do more hauling to the donation store but she just wanted to trash most discards at the time.
Now the inheritance money is in the retirement account and her early retirement income she spends mostly on things she wants day to day. I stay out of that.
If we need something expensive, the money is withdrawn from the joint retirement account. (remodel poroject, dental implants, big medical deductables and any expensive things or car BB wants.
Part of the psychology of the retirement account is, I have worked on it for over 36 years. I argued many times against spending it when the market was down and now is worth something. In the last two years BB's inheritance boosted it without BB doing anything except to be born into a certain family.
While BB complained about her family and complained to me about me doing things for them. Now BB wants to live like she deserves the things she wants and it is her birth right to do so.
Right before BB's mother died, BB had a falling out with her mother and I stepped in and tried to get BB to patch things up for 8 months. BB did in the last 30 days after her mother wound up in a nursing home, but I still have trouble with the entitlement attitude BB has. If you ask BB, I am the killjoy but I know what I saw and heard. They (dead mother and uncle) were a pain to her but their money is good today. BB said she never wanted their money, but now she has it it is burning a hole in her pocket. (the main problem as I see it)
BB always wanted things but it was not such an issue when there was less money (not many extras at the time) but now it is possible to have much more than is needed. What was an unreachable dream is now a possabiity, but how many newer, better things really enhance happiness?
Maybe in a way, I think that BB did not earn what she got from her relatives when they died. She did not seem to respect them as much as I did, or do things for them like I did. I know that does not entitle me to anything from her dead relatives. Just another case of work your fingers to the bone and wind up with bony fingers while someone else get in the right line and they win a jack pot.
Too much information Mrs Nop, but it is part of the problem. Flame away as you need to. I do respect your advice.
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