Quote: So, Lou, assuming that you don't live in squalor and that you adequately fill BB's "love tank" I think that gets you up to baseline "good, postive feelings" not sexual feelings
We don't live in squalor, she is baseline good minus the sexual desire. Add shopping oriented.
Here is another example of differences. BB talks about wants that seem silly to me (new 4 door pick-up because it looks cool or a Hummer H3. To counter her I said a new car would be nice, lets look for a used 1960 Falcon 1960 Falcon Dealer Brochure ) We seem to be in two different places. She frequently talks about wanting this or that and me trying to keep up what we already have.
Quote: I think that BB doesn't understand the sexual side of herself.
I Agree. Some of her friends complain about their H's in a generic way, the W's have to check with the H's first on medium and large purchases (normal to me). BB believes if a woman earns money, she should be able to spend w/o checking with the H. Similar beliefs if the W wants pets, just get them.
Quote: She seems to see sex as marital currency. So, to her, it is how you get extras...Does it seem like that at all to you?
BTDT, you are right. If she wants something bad enough or made a big mistake , I used to get sex. Since her TV shopping channel and shoes/purse shopping is down, so is sex.
Quote: I keep feeling like BB just isn't in touch with her sexual self so sex has taken on other meanings in her life e.g. chore, marital currency etc...
She delieves the myth that women don't like sex once they are past a certain age and she is normal. You HDW's are nymphos and need to take a cold shower. Maybe over stated but YKWIM.
How about adding she can't have those feelings because she has none of those hormones, women over a certain age are not built for sex / dried up so to speek, most guys my age have ED, it's all natures plan after all, sex is for making babies and we are too old to raise more kids. More dogs and cats are OK though.
Quote: What that might buy is BB's willingness to go to therapy not her willingness to get serious about your SL. What do think?
BB worked in the mental health field for 15 years and thinks therapy is mostly a waste of time. She saw meds change people, but talking is not productive most of the time. She has her ideas and said she knows what she wants and what is right in most situations. BB is picky about many things and I am OK with variety most of the time. She has to have many conditions met before she will do things and I can do things and work out some of the details as I go.
Ten years ago we went to therapy but did not make much progress. The therapist she liked seems to lean towards were womens issues oriented and one asked why we were married. One guy I went to alone was asking me what I want but said he had little way of getting BB to want the same thing, so be in it (C) for my PMA.
No suggestions here just a comment. The "you" without the sexual side of you isn't a true representation of the man you are. If she really does want you then she needs to learn to honor that side of you (not just tolerate) but if she only wants a "you" with no sexual feelings then it isn't really you. Is it? What would happen if you suddenly did't want her?
Yes and no. I mean not wanting BB in a way that she notices. I have missed some of this thread but I don't recall BB seeming to notice Lou's disinterest in her. Has she? Does she understand where her choices will eventually lead? (HP, I believe, asked me the same question about my H - it is a good question)
Quote: Does she understand where her choices will eventually lead?
I did tell BB that I was moving my things permantely to my bedroom because I have tried so many ways for us to be more like a normally married couple but have been rejected too many times and I was moving because I can't take any more of her refusals. I said if she wants a relationship with me to be anymore than room mate status, she had to do the work and act like she likes having me around. Of course that led to her saying I am asking for too much and what she does is never going to be good enough.
So, to answer your question, BB wants a relationship with me and will act like she does if things are looking like I am about gone, very sick, or if the moon and planets align in some mystical position.
If I am just cool and with drawn, most affection that is considered normal goes to the 3 dogs she plays baby/lover with.
Something different happened last night. BB said one reason she has trouble sleeping with me is, normally I keep her awake and she only sleeps 2 out of 8 to 10 hours. I countered with "that sounds crazy, not logical." To which she said "so now I am crazy?" I said if I kept her from sleeping that much, why did she even want me around. Later she change it to sometimes I keep her awake.
I asked about the cats and dogs chasing and barking keeping her awake. BB said they don't. Just me, the fax calls, and the train that is 2 miles away.
Then BB said since I did not take her telling me, I keep her awake, too well, she would not answer any questions like that again.
Then she said she wants to go back on HRT eventhough she could die from cancer (she had estrogen dependant breast cancer and a lumpectomy) if I would find some estrogen pills on eBay for her. She said since she went off HRT her life has been a mess. She also said I need to find a woman 20 years younger, that she is too old for much physical activity and intimacies. Then she wanted me to hold her and seemed to have an attitude change.
I rubbed her back and she seemed to like being held. She went to sleep and kept close to me. Last month she did not want me near her.
Quote: Something different happened last night. BB said one reason she has trouble sleeping with me is, normally I keep her awake and she only sleeps 2 out of 8 to 10 hours. I countered with "that sounds crazy, not logical." To which she said "so now I am crazy?" I said if I kept her from sleeping that much, why did she even want me around. Later she change it to sometimes I keep her awake.
I asked about the cats and dogs chasing and barking keeping her awake. BB said they don't. Just me, the fax calls, and the train that is 2 miles away.
Then BB said since I did not take her telling me, I keep her awake, too well, she would not answer any questions like that again.
Etc.
Lou, you're having discussions again.
And I don't see what happened as being "different" -- the talking part, that is. Her wanting to sleep close to you is a good sign. (Of course, I was not there, so you're the final authority on that.)
I think these endless pointless discussions comfort her in some way and take the edge off for her. THAT'S why I don't want you to have them. It's like when the crucible for HER starts heating up, you have one of these back-and-forth he-said-she-said exchanges, you wind up rubbing her back, and no progress is made.
WHAT IS THE POINT OF THESE POINTLESS DISCUSSIONS!?!?!?!?!?
The only thing they do is temporarily soothe her... but they don't do a thing for you. Let her stew for a while. Let her be uncomfortable. Let her experience the discomfort that her position creates FOR HER. Your discomfort does not move her to action, but HER discomfort might.
Great advice, Lil. Try it, Lou!!! It seems like "you" always end up giving in just when she's "getting it". That's the back rubbing part. You don't let her "suffer" for her actions. She's constantly "reeling" you back in.
I think the fact that you are "finally" taking a firm stand may be the "do or die" process that you need to find out what the rest of your life with BB will be like.
Quote: Let her stew for a while. Let her be uncomfortable. Let her experience the discomfort that her position creates FOR HER. Your discomfort does not move her to action, but HER discomfort might.
I see how her discomfort is about the only thing that will motivate her for the long term. Me applying pressure works for the short term but I don't want to be the one who is in charge of the show most of the time, trying to keep things on track.
She also said I need to find a woman 20 years younger, that she is too old for much physical activity and intimacies. Then she wanted me to hold her and seemed to have an attitude change.
ahh this confuses you OG. I understand. She freaked herself out with the comments and then checked to see if she was still desireable to you by using PT.
You gave in, seemed like it was progress, yes -maybe you dont know. hence you are .
It wasnt. you have to remain indifferent to this untill she is willing to 'go the distance'. You ended up staying in 'her room' I assume?
what you did was working-- you just gave in too soon. Someone else said She has too cook and struggle in her crucible, and I will add so do you --which means not giving in offersing suggestions, fixing, and doing what you have always done.
Listen to Lil. STOP the convos. She is not you. They do not work.
Make a decision, follow up with it, like sleeping in other room untill the consequences cause her to make concessions. The HRT stuff was designed to make you feel guilty, and put the burden of action on you. Do not and Do not.
You have to be able to change yourself if you want her to change.
Quote: I don't want to be the one who is in charge of the show most of the time
Then things will never be as you want them. Ever. This want is completely counter to what is required by biology. This want is completely counter to what the Old Testament says is neccessary for a succesful M, and proscribed as the appropriate arrangement.
Your want is not accepting reality.
Also you will be doing less 'work' and things will feel better internally if you start acting as you must, instead of how society and your upbringing has conditioned.
Now I will say I understand what you meant by your statement. Stop helping her to 'fix things' coming up with soloutions for her and she will do the 'work'. Be lovingly detached and cautious of her advances. Ignore her double speak and illogic.
Stop the convos, stop the attempts to get her to 'understand', stop.
One last thing, her statements of too much internet, inventory, new car have validity. They are not bargaining chips for PT though. You have to compromise and determine how much validity, while not ignoring your needs. Have you started 'walking the dogs' with her each day to give you guys some 'chit chat time', and incorporating some physical activity at the same time? This is very necessary for most women to remain connected. Probably getting cold up there by now, though.
One last thought. I thought the Falcon was cool. Would love to have one myself in the garage for weekend cruising or a 69 SS camaro, or a convertable Corvaire etc. For everyday hauling around town and rolling down the Highway I have safe, (excludes my murdercycle ) comfortable, dependable, quiet, modern engineering. But thats just me.
You guys are opposites and both have positives to bring to the table.
RE Blackfoot She also said I need to find a woman 20 years younger
Quote: this confuses you OG
Not confusing to me. More medical (lagitimate reasons to BB but I don't buy into them totally) reasons/excuses to not be physical from her POV, not mine. I see things we can do if she had more interest in doing them.
Quote: what you did was working-- you just gave in too soon.
At the time I thought I was rewarding some posative behavior because she was the one to reach out and touch me.
Quote: The HRT stuff was designed to make you feel guilty
Could be BF, but it sounded like she was realizing that HRT caused her breast cancer to grow faster but she did not like being off HRT because of the other problems that come about because of lower estrogen levels. I heard " either way (to HRT or to not HRT, that is the question) there are going to be problems", Some of her statements had tones of desperation.
Quote: Then things will never be as you want them.....stop the attempts to get her to 'understand'
I see the insight in thes statements.
Quote: Have you started 'walking the dogs' with her each day to give you guys some 'chit chat time', and incorporating some physical activity at the same time?
Good Idea BF. Might have to do it a couple times a week. I have to watch out it does not become another of BB's showing off her babies events. Three dogs of which 2 are given loads of attention.
Quote: or a 69 SS camaro, or a convertable Corvair etc
I know where about 20 Corvairs are but I don't know if any are convertables. I have a Corvair Spyder (turbo-charged) tac some where in my old car parts pile. I used to work on them back in 1967.
How about a 68 ElCamino with 283 V8,2BBL carb. 3 speed w/over drive, syncromesh first gear Saginaw transmission. (needs lots of work) BB says it is just a junk pile.
Lots of people go nuts over early Mustangs. Thay share the same basic parts and similar chasis as Falcons. Most people say Falcons are junk and Mustangs are good. I guess looks are more important than the core to most people. Camaro's are built better (duability) require less maintenance, and are easier to work on than Mustangs.
BB had a 66 Chevelle SS 396, 325 HP when I met her. I drove a 52 Chevy, 4 dr with an early style 'powerglide' transmission that stayed in "hi range" unless you moved the shift lever to low by hand. It was designed that way.
BB did not like her car and had trouble with it. (same situation with things now too,) I was some what satisfied with mine but wanted to go back to a manual transmission. Still want to have a 5-speed Dodge Caravan. Found 2 at the junk yards.
I had been to Maine and Florida in my car and it did the speed limit. In BB's car, you could be doing 75 MPH and pass some one, then find yourself doing almost 100 MPH easy. Although the SS package and the 396 cu.in. 325 HP engine was fun sometimes, I always wished she would have bought the car with a 283 cu. in. (est HP 175) engine.
Re vacation;
I was working in the yard sunday and over did it. My back went out a little. Usually it only takes a couple of days for everything to get back to normal. It didn't so I put off the vacation but will see how things are next week. I have trouble sitting still but am OK if I get up and move around every 10 minuets. 90% recovery takes fron 2 days to 4 weeks. Looks like this one is going to take over a week.
) comfortable, dependable, quiet, modern engineering. But thats just me.