blackfoot would probably spend the whole time kicking my a$$ Well, at least there would be some passion in that room Lol Do women like the idea of men fighting over them? Of course Globule. Thus, my fantasy. You know, the W has never expressed jealousy toward me and I probably have never expressed it to her. Is it possible we were too comfortable and felt too safe with each other. Safe is a good thing in general, but it doesn't always inspire passion Yes. My H and I are the same way. I've talked about this on another thread. All emotions can be viewed on a spectrum from healthy to unhealthy. Even traits we consider inherently good, like trust. TOO much trust in a M can lead to laziness, lack of passion, lack of EC. If we always assume our mates will stay with us no matter what, we have nothing to really MOTIVATE us anymore in the R. Passion keeps us engaged in the R. Of course OW also went on and on sometimes about how one of the things she really liked about me was that she felt safe with me because she knew I wouldn't try to cross THE boundary I can see that. The line was set and therefore you felt COMFORTABLE with each other to really open up, share, form EC, etc. It was intense R, some people would say nothing more than a friendship since you never crossed the line but I think we know that is bs. You can have feelings for someone that are beyond "friendly" even though their was never any sexual contact. That's why love, passion, EC is about the MIND not the body. The sex is just the icing on the cake. It's everything else that goes along with the sex that I and so many other people crave.
Was that before the separation that H bailed on the C? No, after. He left (out of the blue, no warning, didn't even talk to me about it first) Then, he agreed to start C which we did for 4 months but he was dragging his heels the whole time. Thus, my question to you if your W was engaged in the process or dragging. It will make a huge difference. In fact, it will be critical so be mindful of it. Looking back I could see H was not really trying but I wanted it so bad at the time I overlooked it. Learn from my mistakes if you can. Maybe even confront her in the C session if she does not seem to be making any progress/changes after a few weeks/months of C. The only thing that ended up working was me totally disengaging from him and the M. Stopped all C and R talk. Moved full steam ahead towards legal separation (which we still are), and moved on without him. Oh surprise, just happened to want me back when I didn't want him anymore. Men!
Been kinda busy this morning. I hate Saturday's. I get to look all day at my hot W and think of all the things I'd like to do with her. Grrrr!
Anyway, I'll respond to the other posts later when I get a chance, but I thought I'd put forth an interaction for critique (as suggested by MrsNOP).
Wife was putting on makeup this morning and I walked in to put an old dishrag in the hamper. Even though she was wearing baggy sweats and sweatshirt, she still looked hot with her hair pulled back putting on lipstick. So I came up behind her, grabbed her, started rubbing on her legs and stomach, and even picked her up a bit (I am over a foot taller than her and more than 100 lbs heavier, so its not much of a feat). I told her how hot she looked. She said nothing. So I got a little miffed and said "nothing to say, eh?" She said, "well you do it all the time so ..." I got a little more miffed and responded "well I won't do it anymore then." She responded, "yes you will" and kept on putting on makeup. There was no joking or playful tone in her voice, just matter-of-factness (if you know what I mean). I definitely felt a little used, but I figured I had pushed enough and went back to getting the twins ready to go outside.
Any comments. I know my "frame control" sucked and she got the better of me, but any suggestions as to how I might have handled it better. Should I stick to my guns and stop showing her physical affection, or was the whole thing just dumb of me to do.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Your wifes response was simular to mine when my H does these king of things. My H always feel it is based on I don't want him to touch me. But really it is how he touches me. And how in pursued I feel. Had you have walked up behind your wife and rubbed her upper back or upper arms first while telling her how hot you thought she was you may not have gotten the same response from her. When my H and I have had no contact and he immediately makes contact in a sexual nature. It is a automatic turn off for me. It is not loving in nature it is pure he wants sex in my mind. I feel used.
And her response yes you will. Is true you will. My H says this often also. Two days later he is at it again. And BF says it is us woman that say something today but don't mean it tomorrow!
I hope your wifes stomach is located in a normal spot. I seem to be a freak of nature who's stomach seems to reside right along there pelvic line. Or is it my H just does not know anatomy well
"glob, did you think she would respond other than the way she did? " No, but I can always hope.
"If you KNOW she is not going to respond well to your grabbing, touching, rubbing, etc., why do you set yourself up for rejection?" Because I am a freakin idiotic masochist. And I like to touch her even if she brushes me off, I can pretend for just a moment that things are normal between us.
"Does she sometimes respond well to this kind of thing?" Not in a long time
"Maybe a comment (with no touching) like, "You look so sweet and pretty this morning," and then immediately leaving the room would have been better." Already do that several times a day. Although I have been backing off as per the advice from several people here on this board (I'm overdoing it). I guess switching from saying it too much to saying it not at all created a pressure build-up inside me that I released this morning in a dumb way, that probably just made things worse.
I'm such a freaking amateur at this.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"When my H and I have had no contact and he immediately makes contact in a sexual nature. It is a automatic turn off for me. It is not loving in nature it is pure he wants sex in my mind. I feel used."
Hmmm, it was not my intention for it to be taken as expressing my desire for sex, as we both know we are not going to have sex anytime soon. I guess I thought in my whacked out brain that she might actually be flattered that I find her hot and was willing to express it openly with absolutely no reservation. I can see how she would misunderstand my intent though.
"And her response yes you will. Is true you will. My H says this often also. Two days later he is at it again. And BF says it is us woman that say something today but don't mean it tomorrow!" That settles it! I am NOT doing that again (the "move" I made on her this morning)! I will not be made a fool of.
"I hope your wifes stomach is located in a normal spot. I seem to be a freak of nature who's stomach seems to reside right along there pelvic line. Or is it my H just does not know anatomy well" LOL!!! Now that's funny. Oh, I thought that was your stomach. LOL! I guess in the right context it could be a good move. I will say that I have NEVER come up and grabbed her breasts or private areas as a first move. Maybe that's partly the wuss in me, but I know she would not like that. I don't touch those areas until we are well along the way toward a sexual encounter.
Thanks for your perspectives. It helps me understand my W's reaction better.
"Hope your day gets better!" I't didn't, and the night before sucked too (probably had something to do with why I went after her this morning), but that is a different story. The past two Friday nights have been real bummers. I used to like Friday's.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Sad story about the brother and sister-in-law. I'll bet her stuggle with AIDS had something to do with her animosity. It breaks my heart to hear about people going through that disease.
I have never really thought of jealousy as a potentially necessary part of a relationship until this thread. Interesting.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"If we always assume our mates will stay with us no matter what, we have nothing to really MOTIVATE us anymore in the R. Passion keeps us engaged in the R." More very true words from LFL
"The line was set and therefore you felt COMFORTABLE with each other to really open up, share, form EC, etc." Well, perhaps I overstated how comfortable we really were with our decision to not make it physical. There were several times when I know in my mind I was inches away from giving in. She admitted on several occasions that she felt the same way. I'd like to think that we didn't give in because we were both "strong" (in that regard anyway), but it may have been just dumb luck that we both weren't on the edge at the same time.
"It was intense R, some people would say nothing more than a friendship since you never crossed the line but I think we know that is bs." It is BS. It was more than a friendship, it was a form of unfaithfulness to my wife.
"The sex is just the icing on the cake." I guess I've been eating angel food my whole life.
"It's everything else that goes along with the sex that I and so many other people crave." I haven't had much luck with the other stuff either.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Maybe even confront her in the C session if she does not seem to be making any progress/changes after a few weeks/months of C" I hope it doesn't come to that. But you are right, if she isn't going to participate, why are we going to C?
"Moved full steam ahead towards legal separation (which we still are), and moved on without him." Still legally separated? I guess since I never contemplated that, I don't know what that means. Would you have to "file" something that says you are no longer separated?
"Oh surprise, just happened to want me back when I didn't want him anymore. Men!" We are poor saps for sure!
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Then, he agreed to start C which we did for 4 months but he was dragging his heels the whole time. Thus, my question to you if your W was engaged in the process or dragging. It will make a huge difference. In fact, it will be critical so be mindful of it. Looking back I could see H was not really trying but I wanted it so bad at the time I overlooked it. Learn from my mistakes if you can. Maybe even confront her in the C session if she does not seem to be making any progress/changes after a few weeks/months of C. The only thing that ended up working was me totally disengaging from him and the M. Stopped all C and R talk. Moved full steam ahead towards legal separation (which we still are), and moved on without him. Oh surprise, just happened to want me back when I didn't want him anymore. Men! 
