I know it's been awhile since I posted to you, but I do visit your thread frequently.
With all due respect, Bruce, I know it might not make sense to you in the Catholic sense, which I think is where our friend here is struggling. I would know, because I'm knee deep in a spiritual struggle myself.
Gabe, I know it feels like you need a break from your intense DBing efforts and feelings. But if I may provoke you further, I think this is an excellent time to wallow in them. It's nearly holiday time, and if you're anything like me, they have a tendency to be overwhelmingly busy and leave me little time to think about the important things. I'm finding myself overwhelmed right not by the myriad feelings that seem to be taking over my body and soul. For whatever reason, I think it's a better time to manage them and process than waiting for the eruption at Christmas.
Have you thought about the differentiation between faith and hope? Think about what those mean to you, okay?
Like you, I'm a practicing and believing Catholic. I married in the church and divorced legally. I consider the divorce Mr. Wonderful's D. But the annulment is something I consider MY D. And I'm really, REALLY struggling with it. I've finished all the paperwork and corraled the witnesses. I met with Fr. Bob last night to get his signature on all of it, and I was completely flabbergasted when I broke down and sobbed. (With my kids present.)
He gently pushed the papers aside, sat back in his chair comfortably, clasped his hands and asked me to talk with him.
Gabe, I know I'm not alone in this struggle. As I managed to speak through all the tears and gulps I told him that this whole experience has been a big mistake. He asked me if I meant the annulment process or the marriage itself? I told him the divorce. (You can imagine my horror as I really thought I had processed and accepted this.)
I posed a statement that was sort of a question: If we embark on this annulment process, the church is going to make a ruling on the fact that the sacramental bond was never present. And I honestly believe it was. At least for me.
That's when Fr. Bob looked at me kindly and said, "Well, you do realize that a sacramental bond involves 2 people. And he has to honor that bond--not just you. Otherwise the bond was never present."
We chatted some more. Then he asked me what I pray for now. A light bulb moment for sure, as I answered, "The last few years of my marriage, I asked God to bring me a man who loved me. And I got a divorce."
Father sat there calmly, not moving. And as I looked in his eyes as my daughters sat there completely still, I realized that there just might be divine intervention at work after all. I pulled the papers back in front of Fr. Bob and said, "I think I just got my answers."
When we finished, he looked up at me with a very sober expression and said he noticed that Mr. Wonderful had listed me as the petitioner for his divorce. I told him that it was something that I still felt angry about and was working on forgiving him for that. He reminded me that it was the work of a passive-aggressive man who needs to heal, and perhaps this outcome really is what is best for me? I nodded.
As he held the door open for us when leaving, he folded his arms with a smile and said, "Betsey, please do something really nice for yourself this week, okay? That's an order."
So, Gabe, perhaps spiritually you are grieving for what you intended: a lifetime married to the mother of your son. A commitment to her as a man loves his wife. But if her intent was anything other than yours (and it sure seems as though this is as true for you as it is for me), there is no spiritual marriage between the 2 of you.
Can you find peace in your faith that your Lord will deliver you from the pain of loving someone who does not appear to love herself?
(((((((((((Gabriel)))))))))))
In the end, every day take comfort knowing you are loved. Truly. There are lots of folks out there who believe in you as a man and a human being. Cherish them. God loves you too.
Big hugs, friend.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I'm not divorced yet myself, but being Catholic I wrestle with the same questions and also the old "what God has joined together". Thinking in those terms I wonder about so many aspects of our religion. After all it is one of the sacraments. I also worried about what this is telling my kids. Of course everything that I have gone through in this whole mess has made me stronger and a much better Christian. I'll just have to accept that as being part of the plan.
I believe that we all have a lesson to learn from this. Maybe it's nothing more than to sit back, knowing that we are not in charge and to be thankful for what we do have. Besides what we know now that we didn't know then is that being in a marriage with a P/A personality means that we were never in charge, not really.
Concentrate on you and what you want out of a life without your wife. You never know, God does work in mysterious ways..........
Love, Bethie
Gabe,
My best advice to you is to detach. That to me was such a hard concept, but it was the only thing that brought me peace. Knowing all of the gorey details of our spouses lives does nothing but bring us pain, so it's best that we don't know. I had to talk to myself constantly to remind myself that my husband wasn't here because he didn't want to be and there was not a blessed thing that I could do about it!
Concentrate on you and what you want out of a life that doesn't include your wife. None of us know the turn that our lives will take and that in itself is very exciting. God does work in mysterious ways...........
I still lurk, but have not posted because I'm so consumed with closing out legal matters on my separation and struggling with how/whether to fight the last battles. In any event, I fully understood your sense of the spiritual M and respect it. And when I saw Betsey's post I sent her an e-mail that she suggested I put up here. It's based in part on a Theology on Tap session I attended last night. These are gnerally meetings of young adult Catholics (do I still qualify at 43?) where a guest speaker is brought in to explore various subjects of the faith. There are informal "chapters" --if you can call them that, all across the country. Last night's topic was Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body.
_____________________________________________
From: Merrick
To: UDog
Subject: Theology of the Body
I have to stop looking at that BB! Gabe’s thread and your post were very penetrating.
Last night’s session on the Theology of the Body was extremely obtuse and difficult to deal with in a short time and diverse audience, but I’ll leave you with some specific thoughts as it relates to my sitch and how it may relate to yours. Please don’t hate me for this, because I’m sharing more of your struggle [on annulments and marriage] than you might think.
First, marriage has always been a sacrament, long before the Church. When Jesus refers to what things are like “in the beginning,” he speaks as someone who was there and in a position to know [he is God after all]. So when he talks about becoming one flesh in marriage—it is a literal communion of our bodies in communion with God’s stated purpose for us—and if I’m understanding this correctly, full communion with the body of Christ and the capability to create life the way God created us. In this communion, we are commanded to give selflessly to one another—and there is nothing more giving of ourselves than to freely give our bodies to one another. [n.b. The Pope would go on to espouse the virtues of bringing pleausre to our mates]. And most important with all types of selfless giving to spouses, most of us (some would say all) can only do this with the grace of God’s help and Christ’s example.
At the outset, the speaker also distinguished between the vocation of marriage and those who remain single and celibate, apart from clergy who take vows. Those who remain single are not bad, but for Christians, they have chosen another path of service to God. For example, a spinster who takes are of her mother gives her body in a way different than a married person.
I asked about those of us who are stuck in between. We who have been married, but have had the marriage removed from us and finding celibacy is not a true choice. He corrected me in saying that while for many it is a pre-selected lifestyle, I was in celibacy by default, but it was still a choice. And he said that if this seems out of whack, just look out the window of the restaurant we were in and you’ll see a world that is broken. But that brokenness does not change anything about what God intended and as a follower of Christ, I needed to accept that and try to live the way he lived. Basically, pick up my cross and follow Him.
Which brings me back to Father Bob and the issue you wrestle with. The difficult proposition for you and for me is not whether my W or Mr. W were capable or intended to enter a sacramental bond, but what did WE intend. I was Jewish, but I really believed this M was for life and assumed it—even if I was not freely giving of myself at all times or perhaps way too many times. However, I think I can make a strong argument that the overwhelming majority of us don’t ever truly understand the meaning of freely giving of ourselves (i.e., with no expectations in return) until the point in time where we don’t want to give a thing, but ultimately do so for the sake of the marriage. We make a choice to beging the process. To put this another way, did you truly understand the full scope and nature of your vows when you made them with Mr. W? To what degree of commitment were you different than Mr. W. Or are you merely judging his actions AFTER the fact. Once you start down the slippery slope of that type of assessment, it’s not long before you reach a point where no person is capable of giving true sacramental consent. That is why annulments through history were usually only granted for fraud or failure to submit to the fundamental purpose of marriage—creating life (another discussion topic). I can come up with counterarguments (e.g., the healing aspects of allowing new R's with other committed persons of faith--I use that term not judgmentally, but to describe persons who desire living a way that puts Christ at the center of their lives), if we liberallize annulment rules to reflect the modern state of the world, are we changing the Truth to satisfy our own needs and not God’s? Are we playing God? That's a struggle of our own conscience.
Now most shockingly, after the presentation I talked with the speaker and expressed my frustration with how so many of the clergy seemed to have given up on marriage and have accepted the notion that we are not compelled to live a life of chastity if our marriages end. His reply was the reason so many priests do not believe this is that they do not practice or believe in celibacy themselves. Otherwise, they would tout its virtues the same way we tout everything else that we believe is good for us. Now I know that non-celibacy can include self-gratification, so I don't know how far this goes in the Church (nor was I inclined to pursue the matter), but he was adamant that this non-belief in celiubacy is a problem that has plagued the Church for a long time and that a reemphasis on the teaching of both the beauty of $exuality and celibacy was badly needed—and that was what Pope JPII had begun with the the theology of the body.
Thanks for such wonderful posts. Betsey, you've put into words my very struggle. Thank you! And Merrick, you've described my thoughts very well regarding the sanctity of my vow. It may sound psychotic, but I literal have felt my soul connected to XW. Is that tie cut by her actions/choices? I don't believe a person has that power.
Am I ready to live the life of a celibate monk? No. I'd like to share intimacy with whom I also share love. But my confusion about what to do next tells me to sit pat and wait to hear the answer.
I'm worn out. I've been doing a great job with self-care and personal growth, but her MLC journey is a very negative presence if I allow it much into my life, and I'll be much happier keeping it to how she impacts S6. There is great sadness, as I knew her to be a kind, moral individual, yet maybe this is the new her. Time will tell. As she is now, I wouldn't give her my phone number if she were someone I met for the first time, let alone date a second time. She's acting like a bottom-feeder, and that's not where I want to be.
She has commented on my positive changes, both my treatment of her and my physical improvements, and inquires about my professional progress, all suggesting attention to me. Yet our odds of any reconciation have a lot to do with her - what she'll do and how she'll end up, and I have no control over that. Do I flavor our interactions by DBing? Definitely. But my future DBing will be more about my personal growth than about XW.
I'm keeping the faith, folks. DBing works. I've seen it over and over in those of you committed to changing. Prevention work is often the hardest to measure in terms of effect. But just imagine where any of us right now having gone through our sitches without DBing. Not a pretty picture.
In terms of all of our sitches, time will tell. As on Day 1, time and patience are our friends. Just much more of each than likely anyone anticipate.
You are doing the right thing. It hurts and its too toxic to know what our Xes are doing when it comes to MLC agendas.
Keep your faith in yourself and God, remember what we are living for. We are on earth to live for the Lord, to please him and become more Christ like as we mature. Gabe you are headed in the right direction and God will bless you.
Just wanted to stop in and say hello. You are doing great. In the end your consistency and patience will be what leads you back to a content and peaceful life with ex.
Just last night I was riding in the car and seeing all the X-mas trees on street corners made me realize that Christmas is here once again. My bomb was in Nov so this will be the third Christmas since the bomb. The first one was a whirlwind that I can't even imagine without getting nauseous. Horrible! The second one was a year and a month after the bomb. I remember just taking it moment by moment to get through each day of that week. I was still in the stage where I thought about ex every second of every single day with this aching feeling in my heart. I realized last night that I will truly enjoy this holiday season. I never thought this would be possible especially so soon.
My point is that you are doing great. It is true that time does make things better. Don't ever forget that. As the days roll along you will get healthier and healthier and ex will see these changes. She will eventually follow along. Keep doing what you are doing and you will slowly start to see things fall into place.
Just got back home after a fun time in Vegas with Me and K. Those are two great guys, folks. We shared some good laughs, and did a wee bit of R talk as well with some gambling and drinking mixed in. I'm looking forward to our next outing.
I had almost all of Sunday by myself after Me and K left town, so I signed up for a rock-climbing class at a gym and went on a brief excursion to a set of local cliffs. I've decided to add this to my interests, partly swayed by there being 4 women with very nice yoga bods in the group. I am incredibly sore today, but I was super glad I could fit it in. I'm sure I reeked on the plane ride home, but oh well.
Within 1 hr of getting home, XW called but I let it go to VM while I showered. She called again, and when I picked up, she went into a long explanation how her web ads were 'mistakes', how she is not lesbian or Bi, and how someone must have hacked into her accounts. I apologized for any sense of judgmentalism on my part, and when I noted that her business was her business, she said, "You don't seem to believe me. I'm not!" She went on to note that she's not trying to date, and won't for some time. It seemed like interesting timing. I was able to validate her mothering, and I think I listened fairly well for someone whose had little sleep for 3 straight nights (due to fun/travel).
I found myself trying to move the convo to other things. I talked about my trip, about S6, and at the moment feel nicely detached, although it could be that I'm sleepy-tired. No worries or getting excited about what-ifs. Just happy reflections about what I did for me, and noting that I shared a few things with her just b/c I wanted to.
Its good to be home! I'm leaving in a few to go pick up S6 and spend 5 hrs with him. I miss my little guy!
Betsey 
