Hi Gabe, I have visited this forum on occasion, as my M disolved into a D. I've been splitting my time between here and Newcomers, but now I belong here.
I too just moved, though it was from the marital home to a condo. some of my tools are still at the house while I secure a storage room for them. My condo is starting to shape up, but I seem to run out of energy quickly after I find something with a fond memory attached. XW had packed up some dishes and glassware that she didn't want and thought I could use. That included the two champaigne glasses we got at the 2000 New Year's Eve Party. She wore a red dress and looked great! We danced until 1:00 and a couple of times after that. For her to just dump that memory hurt...she could have at least kept one glass don't you think?
My routine has been to pick up my twin boys (S15#1 and S15#2) three times a week so we can go to the gym and work out together. Monday evening, when I stopped to pick them up, XW wouldn't even come to the door. The boys saw my truck and came out. As we were driving away D15#1 said that XW was in a very bad mood and they, and D18, were walking around on eggs to stay out of her way. I asked what was the cause and they didn't know.
When we came home she was out front. She had used the edger along the driveway and was using the leaf blower to blow the grass clippings away. The blower quit and she struggled with it. I noticed the filter over the air inlet was out of position so I corrected that and handed it back to her. It started up again but, the look she gave me was 180 degrees away from "thank you".
Hmm, I think I just hijacked your thread! Sorry. I guess I'm just trying to say that I see the same result of this D as do you, but you are slightly ahead of me. Like playing golf, I'll let you putt first and try to read the green!
Thanks for visiting Julie and AV8R! Sorry for triggering sadness. Lord knows we all have enough triggers in our sitches. My place is coming together. Have some furniture on the way, cleaning and arranging a bit more, getting used to the house again.
S6 and I visited there from noon til 7:30pm, as he had an early release day at school. We turned in my studio keys (hurray!), had lunch at a burrito shop, and then bought a small stack of coloring/activity books at a bookstore. From there, we played superheroes and star wars at the house. Our scenarios are more detailed now that we have 9x more space for our indoor play. S6 gave me a rather high compliment when he said, "Dad, you do a great Yoda."
At dropoff, when XW had an extra chicken sandwich for me, noting that the restaurant gave her 1 free, I thanked her, noting that was kind (even tho I'd already had supper). She asked how my moving was going, and I noted that I was done, and how it was easier to cook at the house. I blew it by not asking her about her move etc... Its hard for me to judge what to say sometimes, as I don't want to seem like I'm prying into her sitch. Any script advice/ideas?
You have grown so much through this process and continue to grow... Unfortunately, many people on this BB were unable to save their marriages, but thankfully they did have the ability to save themselves and grow to a new place of self-awareness. This is true for you also, Gabe... You are such a wonderful inspiration to me. I wish I had the strength you show all of us here with each of your posts.
As you recently mentioned... "Life is not fair and although you may allow yourself to grieve the loss of your M, you will not feel sorry for yourself--- Nor will you expect to have things end your way- You can only control yourself"... Gabe- as you know, the healing will take quite some time--- However, I see such a great mind set from you. You will not let yourself become someone that can not move forward. I truly admire you for that...
I think you are such a wonderful man... I really wish your W could have recognized that b/c I think it is so unfair to put you through so much pain--- You surely don't deserve this (no one on this BB does...) Gabe, you will have so much more to offer in a relationship than you ever did because you survived, healed, and grew from this experience... I know that you probably feel frustrated wondering if you will ever find someone to trust and love again... I KNOW YOU WILL... My only question is whether she will be good enough to deserve you! I hope you have the continued strength to be good to yourself, treat yourself with love and compassion, and most importantly--- PATIENCE... Thinking of you... Your friend, -KIM
Quote: Its hard for me to judge what to say sometimes, as I don't want to seem like I'm prying into her sitch. Any script advice/ideas?
How about just asking her? I think as a friend you should know the boundaries of questioning. There are some areas I think it's safe to go and some interest it's safe to show.
Here's my thoughts, for what they're worth. You have to start somewhere with your XW. You need to establish the fact that you are someone that it's safe to talk to without her feeling judged or looked down upon. I think that compliments and validation aren't that great unless the person receiving these words can believe them. How do you achieve this? Start small. You know when you are going to drop off your son that there is an opportunity to ask something about her that you may be interested in and she may feel safe to tell you. Take her move for instance...you missed the opportunity, but not forever. Just modify it. "You getting adjusted in the condo?", "all unpacked yet?", "How are you liking the condo?" Then take what she gives you. Show genuine interest (thus, you might want to ask a question you want the answer to and can show interest in).
My other suggestion is to repair some of the damage you might have done from the standpoint of her mothering (you might want to ask questions for some of the next several meetings first). Rather than saying.."I think you are a good mother" or "I appreciate you doing such a good job with S6" (both of which by the way may be perceived as fake; they certain seem that way to me) I would consider whether she might not have some insight into something about S6. Ask her opinion. Ask how she thinks the two of you should deal with something. Perhaps over time you should in some way indicate you aren't brainwashing him, that he's a smart boy (taking after mom?) and has his own opinion. You don't want to hurt his feelings or dash his hopes by saying that you are divorced and likely won't be back together and does she have any suggestion on what you might say to him.
I'm just brainstorming here Gabe. I know it's always preferable to go off the cuff and be natural, but it doesn't hurt to come prepared with at least a question or two. Prepare how you'll deal with each scenario. It will get easier as you go.
If you get to the point of comfortableness then ask if you can ask her opinion of something. Then ask it, listen, and thank her. As I write this I know I need to do more of that myself. I converse okay with my XW, but I know her self-esteem needs a little boost, I do value her opinion, but I've been avoiding going there because I'm too busy showing my independence.
Me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
No, really. I do need to work thru some remaining resentment, probably through more self-care, but practicing a few scripts will help me to be caught less off-guard when spontaneous opportunities occur. Wes, I tended to use more general, "lazy" forms of validation, so more personal/specific validations, as well as requests for her input, should play out better.
Interesting. XW's best-friend just disclosed a sizable personal issue to me, asking for my confidence and support. I confirmed both. Could be a test or communicated trust? Not sure if this means anything regarding XW - likely a completely separate issue. But I do feel complimented that she was able to approach me so.
That is interesting about XW's best friend trusting you with info like that. That is one of the things that I hate about divorce. Along with losing your spouse, you lose relationships with lots of other people too.
After a certain amount of time passed with me and ex stuff like that started to happen also. When I call ex's office, I can talk to his friend without it feeling weird. I think communication with family and friends on the ex's side is a good thing. It is part of the walls that need to come down in my opinion. It just opens more doors for communication.
Did I miss the mark on this or are you thinking the same?
No, I was talking about the same thing. It is good to realize that I'm not being demonized by some folks who've been privy to XW's point of view. Her FF seems to be seeing the sitch/me more complexly. In the best-case scenario, maybe this reflects increased complexity in XW's POV, but I won't assume this.
I read in another thread (Hope's?) regarding the stages of MLC, and XW is definitely moved out of Replay, and is fighting a Depressed funk. I'm glad to see that she' fighting hard, still exercising and trying to self-care.
Last night was fun. Had a last-minute invite to the orchestra, and enjoyed a concert on Latin-themed music with a small group of coworkers. Went out for drinks later with a MF who's actually a WAH. He asked permission to drive by an old house that he lived in during his first M (he was the LBS in that R). I could tell his voice softened as he checked out the ol' neighborhood.
I slept a good 10+ hrs last night, allowing myself to sleep in. The bags under my eyes are mostly gone!!! Talked to a priest about my sitch this afternoon. His advice was nearly DBing straight-up: Work at building peace and respect with her, letting go of the rest, trusting God. And take great care of myself.
I am sitting here unpacking more today. Are you finished unpacking and decorating yet? How are things looking? Don't you enjoy being back in your home!
I know what you mean about knowing that the other side doesn't see you as the bad guy. I am glad to see that FF is trusting you with info. Wife will notice FF asking for your advice. That is a good thing.
Glad to hear you went out last night. Interesting about your friend and how he had you drive by his ex's when he was a WAH. Did you ask him for any advice?
It is funny you mentioned talking to your priest. Sounds like he gave you a good plan. I read something on a christian website about what the spouse of a MLCer should do. It said to be a source of strength and consistency for MLC to go back to when they hit rock bottom. It just isn't fair though. People really stink a lot of the times. Why do they have to be soooo human!
When you mentioned your priest, it made me laugh. I remember going to the priest of the church at the beginning of my divorce. He was probably 40 and wore a leather jacket. I was telling him about our addiction problems, and I said, "Boy, drugs are so evil." He said well drugs aren't necessarily evil it is the way people can begin to use them that is sinful. He then said I had some fun with peyote in my day, and he got this gleam in his eye. I was shocked!!! Kind of funny I guess.
Had a nice weekend. Took in some latin-themed music at the local orchestra Fri night, enjoyed some drinks at a nearby pub afterward. Sat, I allowed myself to sleep in - did so until early afternoon. Haven't done that in about 17-18 years. Not sure if I will again (I love doing things with my days), but it was good to try.
On Sat night, went to a nearby town and was able to talk my way into a Cuban club to enjoy very danceable music. A bit too much to drink overall this weekend, but I had a fun time. Good convos with a few women who showed interest.
I enjoyed putting the place together more. The garage is cleared, with things put away in the attic, and better organization inside. I gave some unwanted items away. I also noticed that XW left a sizable box of her momentos, some from the M, some predating me.
Sounded like XW had a falling out with her parents, who visited Fri but left early Sat. S6 was excited to visit with me. They both seemed out of sorts at transfer, so I asked "Is everything alright? Is S6 okay?" XW replied, "Yes, but I'm not." She noted a bladder infection and noted that she is on Cipro (do they prescribe that for bladder infections?). I was able to validate and show empathy, and she thanked me for taking S6.
Later, she called to check on him. I forget the actualy wording, but she stated that she was going to a gynecologist finally (tends to neglect her annual exam) and I noted that it was great to hear that she was working hard to fit an exam into her busy schedule. XW went on a self-defacing spin, noting how flaky she has been at work, how she's droppign the ball here and there, and she seemed to allude that she didn't really care about her health right now. I said in a softened voice that I was sorry she had some difficult thigns going on, but that she has a lot of wonderful living to look forward to, and that S6 needed a healthy mommy. (probably should have kept it focused on her).
Anyway, she seemd to be handing off some school-related responsibilities to me - like getting S6's pictures arranged and wanted to follow my lead in terms of setting up a consistent plan for his allowance and a reinforcement plan for his behavior. I rephrased it as a cooperative effort, and thanked her for joining me with it.
A FF told me that XW is lonely, is frustrated with dating, has invested in an expensive new sextoy (can you pay $200+ for a vibrator?!), has gotten at least her bellybutton pierced, and is going to nude beaches. Ugggh. We went to a nude beach twice in our M, with both rather mixed experiences. Lots of older gay males, so I got more attention that her and she got very jealous of the few women there. It was an effort to boost her self-esteem/body image/sexuality issue, so maybe that's what's going on again. The highlight for me was swimming nude in the surf with her, but she got freaky about being in the ocean naked. It was a nice playful time for us -rare for us to let loose together like that - at least in our later M years.
Overall, some positives these past 5 days: More GAL activities for me, settling into the house with fewer bumps of sheer sadness, XW and I had 3 meaningful positive exchanges in person or via phone, and S6 and I are loving spending more time together in the house. Also, XW seems to be leaning toward offering me more time with S6. My goal here is not to 'win' him away from her, but to give her more alone time to work thru her depression/MLC stuff. Ultimately, reconciliation or no, I want her to be happy and healthy.
Sam, I got and am listening to the CD "How to divorce as friends" while driving around in my truck. Very helpful, nice compliment to DBing.
S6 gave me a rather high compliment when he said, "Dad, you do a great Yoda." 
Talked to a priest about my sitch this afternoon. His advice was nearly DBing straight-up: Work at building peace and respect with her, letting go of the rest, trusting God. And take great care of myself.
Kind of funny I guess.