Blackfoot, this: "Never believe what a woman says especially when it has the word feelings in it," was such an unhelpful way of putting it. Discounting a woman's feelings is not the way to her heart... surely you've figured that out by now.
Yes lil. poorly worded. I didnt say discount them, I said dont believe them. Dont internalize them, dont belive them inside as being unyeilding and unchangeable. dont let them sway you. If it is a feeling it can be changed. Even when followed with nevers, too much etc.
Women have a position 'role' to play, likewise men also.
Wanting it to be different and not dealing with the biology of it will cause you to endlessly bang your head on a wall. You should not deny or hide, but it cant be allowed to dictate to you like it does to her. LFL said she would respect her H if he said I want you to clean the house and admit his feelings. not be P/A, and not deny. make it a statement. that doesnt always mean you will get it though either. LOL.
Cobras Model is exactly right, and it is not that difficult. there is no subterfuge when you understand that it is that way. Its different then a man, but it is that way. Diagram it out, its far simpler then calculus, to see guaranteed. Not neccesarily to deal with though LOL.
Quote: while we validate what she is saying, we must not take it to heart that this will be her position tomorrow
This is exactly right.
Blackfoot, when you said "don't internalize it," that was exactly right, too.
People do change and they have to be allowed to change. I think one of the bad things that happens in a long term R is that both people get locked into each other's expectations and it's hard for one person to do something different and hard for the other to allow them to be different. That's one of the things about the affair that is so freeing-- you're with someone who has no expectations of how you should be, so you can behave very freely.
Things pretty okay at the moment, blackfoot. Thanks for asking. I'm in kind of a neutral/optimistic place at the moment.
If instead, it was just a ploy to get another baby, I am left with this giant uncertainty as to whether or not she will ever have the desire for sex. Haven't you talked to her about this? I mean her desire for sex, not her ploy. Did you talk to her about that week she wanted sex and now does not? Does she give you any answers? I remember you saying in one of your posts that you were afraid what the answer would be. Can't blame you there. At least there is hope now. Is she the one who came up with the 1 year (gulp) time line? Sorry for blasting you with all the questions but you know I am genuinely interested and care about you Globule so I am rolling along with my assertive self
I am not picking on you, really I’m not, but this statement “People do change and they have to be allowed to change” again differs in relation to men or women. It must also be considered in a time context. MY perception is that with women, this statement is not time dependent. I think woman reserve the right to change at any time, for any reason, and often without explanation. A man (in the eyes of a woman) is allowed to change as an evolutionary change over time, but on a shorter time frame, we are expected to be consistent in our emotions and opinions.
I gave the example of my wife. The flip side is that the few times when I got really mad and laid out an ultimatum, she took it as the way the world was going to be from that point forward, not if ands or buts about it. In other words, I am not allowed to vent and say whatever I want because it scares her and threatens her sense of security. But she can spout off anything she likes, and I am to supposed telepathically know when she means it for real and when she doesn’t.
This double standard is very frustrating to me and is part of the reason (I think) that men find it hard to honestly validate women. We don’t always trust that they know what they are saying. The best I can say is that I completely believe that women believe what they are saying. KWIM?
There is not a coffee shop around here within a 45 minute drive That is a horrifying sentence to read. So women are not attracted to emotional men in general or just women like my wife? Can't speak for your W but most people believe doing a 180 is needed in long-term R's that are going stale. So whatever you have been presenting to her (and you know perfectly well what that is), try and do the opposite. Monitor results. On a personal note, I find you are one of the most attractive men on this board. You are emotional yet can intellectualize your situation to realize when your emotions are detrimental. Not that you always know what to do with those emotions (and who does really), but you have a strong sense of self-awareness. You are analytical. Love that! You take suggestions/opinions/advice very well. You are very sensitive. Some women would probably think you are too sensitive but I think it is very attractive. But, I'm not your W. I only "see" you through this computer screen. Don't have to live with you day in and day out LOL. It's not a realistic assessment of you as a person but your persona on the boards is very appealing (to me). Can't speak for all women but since we're friends I thought I would share that with you. Don't discount these traits as not attractive - in general. They are! BUT since you are working on your M you need to figure out what traits/behaviors SHE finds attractive to HER. Yet, STILL KEEP THE BEST PARTS OF YOURSELF INTACT. You cannot change for someone else. You are who you are. She needs to accept that or not. Just like I need to either accept my H for his BASIC qualitites that he will always possess or not. Sure he can tweak it here and there (and that is working), but he will never be someone that he is not at his CORE. You can get into all the FOO stuff and biological/genetic traits that are inherited (more nature than nurture), but figuring out which ones are which is the hard part. Is your W genetically programmed to simply be LD? Is her FOO such an influence on her sexuality that breaking through that influence will be near impossible? Can't say for sure but let's face it, it's going to be a very uphill battle. She never was HD so it's not like she lost it, and she does not show any real affort AT THIS POINT to change. Then again, my H was LD throughout our M and now we are having frequent sex. Needed to go through hell to get here but never say never. My gut is telling me you are going to need a major shake up in your own M to see any real effort to change on your W's part. You'll figure it out Globule. You have friends to get you through it!
Quote: I am not picking on you, really I’m not, but this statement “People do change and they have to be allowed to change” again differs in relation to men or women.
It's okay. I don't feel like you're picking on me. Maybe the thing about being open to change in oneself or another is more personality-related than gender-related.
If you're at all familiar with the Meyers-Briggs personality types, the last letter of the four-letter designation (ENFJ, ISTP, INFP, etc.) is either J or P. The J type (judging) is said to be a personality type who likes things to be settled, closed, defined, concluded. The P (perceiving) type is said to be more comfortable with things being unsettled, open-ended, undecided.
So a J type might make a statement about his or her position and intend it to be in concrete, and the P person might be stating a mood that s/he does not want to be held to 15 minutes from now.
I'm not sure whether these comments are relevant to what you said. Kind of tired, not tracking too well. I guess if you're wondering if your W is just thinking out loud or if she is handing down a pronouncement from the mountaintop, you can always ask her.
I remember something that happened with my late husband. Our SL had become pretty lackluster due to various things. I remember one night in bed I just rolled over toward him and planted a big wet kiss on him like the way we used to do when we were first married. He didn't really respond, and when I broke the kiss, he said, "What are you doing?" I said, kind of miffed, "I was kissing you." He said, "Well, that's not our accustomed pattern." Needless to say, that killed the mood, and I never did that again. (My bad, but somewhat understandable.)
My point is that both parties try to define and predict each other, even if the definition includes expectations of spontaneity. It seems hard to react honestly in the moment without being burdened too much by past or future, kwim?
