I think one thing that sets boards like this one apart is that everyone seems very honest here That's true. I sense people aren't bs-ing too much. I've been very honest in my posts. Sometimes too honest some would say You get on some other sex and relationship boards and there are a fair number of people there just to sit in judgment of others or talk about how big their penises are, etc. Globule! How could you?! Two-timing us on the boards! I can see Blackfoot swinging on over to those sights but not you!! (I'm just playing with you). I have never experienced it, so I can't really comment on how it feels. I am a little worried that my perceptions of what it should be like will be different than reality Well, I see your point. We tend to fantasize about this amazing love/sex life and when it doesn't happen, we are let down. That's why I struggle with whether my expectations are too high with H. I should be happy with what I have Still figuring this all out. there were a couple of times where I almost felt that deep quake hiding underneath the surface tremors. Geology humor. My brother is a geologist out west. I'm sure he would appreciate the humor but since I'm not into talking to my brother about sex LOL I guess it'll have to stay between us. Out of curiosity, was the almost deep quake a feeling just on your end or on your W's end too? What exactly made it so? I always wonder if my idea of great sex is something different from my H's. I'm sure it is although I've never come right out and asked him. Maybe I will!
"Globule! How could you?! Two-timing us on the boards!" I didn't say I posted there regularly! I did lurk and post a bit on some other boards but found them to be more shallow than this board (plus all the other stuff I mentioned earlier). Rarely were responses to any questions more than a sentence or two.
"Still figuring this all out." I'm with you there.
"was the almost deep quake a feeling just on your end or on your W's end too" I am pretty sure it was just on my end. Oddly enough, both times it happened were right about the time my wife conceived. Coincidence? I don't think W has ever had a deep quake, or if she has she has never told me about it.
"What exactly made it so?" Hard to explain. I felt this utter calm and relaxation wash over me just before the "explosion." Then it felt like there was something extra there just below the surface that never quite made it out. Oddly enough, I was ready to go for a second time immediately after we finished, but W was tired. Usually it takes me a few hours to recover. I hope that wasn't TMI, but you did ask. You should ask your H about it. I'm sure its a little different for everybody.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Oddly enough, both times it happened were right about the time my wife conceived. Coincidence? I'd say no. Women can really turn on the charm in the bedroom when they are looking to get preggers. She had her own motives beyond hot sex there for sure. I don't think W has ever had a deep quake, or if she has she has never told me about it. Bet she would n't tell you if she did. You guys are too disconnected at this point. One step at a time. She may not even be in touch with those feelings within herself anymore. Too far into mommy mode. They may be in hybernation, hopefully not for 18 years I hope that wasn't TMI I don't want ever want to hear you say those words again I'm all about the information. Keep it coming. You should ask your H about it. I am going to in the next day or so and I'll report back.
"She had her own motives beyond hot sex there for sure." I have wondered about that with the second pregnancy and it does bother me a bit because she knew I was a bit leery of having another child. Its one of those things I just need to let go of because there is nothing I can do about it.
"Bet she would n't tell you if she did" I'm sure you are right as far as now is concerned, but I would be really disappointed if she and I never had that sort of conversation.
"hopefully not for 18 years"
"I don't want ever want to hear you say those words again" Good golly, first honeypot, then Chrissy, then cobra, then blackfoot, and then MsNOP. Everyone's laying the smackdown on me.
"I'm all about the information. Keep it coming." Same goes for you
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
It is also like a dagger just strikes my heart and I start to feel sick to my stomach. I would rather be in intense physical pain than be alone. Maybe I have some sort of OCD about companionship. Is that making any sense
Its not OCD, but it is controlling you. How about working on this in small chunks. I dont know your campus, but just go out to a bench and sit there by yourself for awhile. Or go to the cafeteria by yourself, sit by yourself, and just watch people go by. while you think things over. comtemplate, ruminate, meditate. whatever. I dont mean hide in a book or a laptop, paperwork. Just sit there, with nothing visible to do.
HP
Quote: I had to drag him kicking and screaming through this process in the beginning
This takes a lot of confidance, not to mention
determination.
Quote: your W doesn't want to do this doesn't mean that she won't come to love the idea.
She wants to, just doesnt know if it is possible and isnt sufficiently attracted to want to do more then wait for him to 'fix' things. I repeat Globule she wants to, she wants it to be good. Believe this, act like this and she will believe it too.
we keep slogging through life because when it's all said and done, he's the one I've pledged my life to, and I want that life to be a good one.
Sigh Ive fallen in love again. Sorry Mrs. Nop Im movin on to HP. LOL. seriously, I like warrior chicks because they are like me, but there is never any chemistry for me when dating. Maybe I should 'change' that. Hmm 2 confidant aggressive take charge, drag the other party types in close quarters. No guess I shouldnt change that.
"I dont know your campus, but just go out to a bench and sit there by yourself for awhile. Or go to the cafeteria by yourself, sit by yourself, and just watch people go by. while you think things over. comtemplate, ruminate, meditate. whatever. I dont mean hide in a book or a laptop, paperwork. Just sit there, with nothing visible to do." Interesting suggestion. Have you found that doing that periodically helps clear your head. What I'd like to do is go to the beach for a few days alone and just sit there, but there are no beaches anywhere near me.
"She wants to, just doesnt know if it is possible and isnt sufficiently attracted to want to do more then wait for him to 'fix' things. I repeat Globule she wants to, she wants it to be good. Believe this, act like this and she will believe it too." Processing.
BTW I did finally make the appt with the self-esteem counselor. He was actually able to get me in in just two weeks. So I'll probably start with him, the psychiatrist, and the MC at about the same time.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"She wants to, just doesnt know if it is possible and isnt sufficiently attracted to want to do more then wait for him to 'fix' things. I repeat Globule she wants to, she wants it to be good. Believe this, act like this and she will believe it too."
I'm with Blackfoot on this one. I think we're seeing the same thing. DEEP down inside I think all women want things to work out and I think they want to forgive. They may not know this is feeling within them at the time.
Earlier this spring my wife and I were in our usual fighting mode, this time over sex I believe, and in session she told the counselor as honestly as she could that there was no way she could ever see having sex with me again. The feelings were not there and too much damage was done that could not be reversed. She was very convinced of this and the counselor did go over this topic for a little while to be sure she understood what and why my wife was saying this.
Well, at home we latter had some big, long drawn out talks (I had to drag her into them) and TWO WEEKS later, we were having sex and getting along quite well. (Things continued to go up and down since then. We are down right now.)
But my point is that women's decisions are influenced so much by how they feel. Some are aware of this and understand how their intellect is influenced by their emotions. Others may say they know it, but still can’t fully control it. For me, I learned that my wife is not able to forecast her ability to make a decision any further than 2 weeks into the future. This was a crack in her outer shell that allowed me to see into her soul that gave me great insight about how she operates.
OK ladies, I’m sure there’s something in there to offend someone, so let ‘er rip!
I agree with BF and you on this, and many of the ladies are saying basically the same thing. I do want to work on our relationship to make it better. I am laying low right now until the first MC session. I'm not saying I'm going to let it all hang out there, or it is going to be a real eye-opener for the W, but I'm looking to that as the starting point for us communicating again about our relationship.
"But my point is that women's decisions are influenced so much by how they feel. Some are aware of this and understand how their intellect is influenced by their emotions." I think some guys (myself included) tend to lean this way as well. I guess I have some gender confusion.
That is an interesting story about your wife. You definitely have some brass ones if you could hear your wife say "no sex ever again" and not fly off the handle. I know I would. It would be a "deal breaker" for me (assuming it wasn't because of some physical issue). I guess though everybody is different. You have learned that your wife will make ultimatums (or is it ultimatae ) like that and really doesn't mean them in the long term. I think if my wife said something like that, she would really mean it and I would have a VERY hard time dealing with it.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
When she says it, she MEANS it! And if nothing changes, it will stay that way! But like I mentioned a while back, she really wants to have a relationship, it’s just that she has as much anger as I (and I really think she has more) that she cannot see past it. On a conscious level she is mad, but on a subconscious level, all she wants is for mommy to pick her up and hold her. I think of her as a hurt little girl (though sometimes I still don’t care!). So no matter how mad she is, having someone hold her would really feel good.
If I can tactfully approach her (after a little time), she will feel that subconscious memory which still feels good to her. She will push me away verbally or ignore me, but that is how she processes her anger (even though I don’t have to like it). Then she can let her anger subside and start thinking rationally. Remember, love avoiders really want to be pursued. They go into panic when the pursuit REALLY stops.
I am hoping that by knowing this, YOU can avoid the panic feelings by learning to override your emotions and knowing that she is really NOT abandoning you. IT IS ONLY AN ILLUSION. Feeling differently is behavioral change, just like Blackfoot says. But to gain that lesson, you need to be watching for the signals.
A BIG NOTE: If you don’t learn this subtle lesson, then your continued panic reactions only perpetuate the cycle. You have said a lot about wanting to be your own person, which is something you felt around the other woman. Well here is a real life example how you can do that, how you can push YOUR development ahead, and in so doing change the external forces that shape HER behavior, allowing a change to happen in her.
"See how that works?" Sort of, it will take a little processing (maybe that time on the bench that BF mentions). It is a hard way to go, doing something that you know in the long run is good when there are no benefits now. As you have stated, it will probably be a long time before I see any "payoff" in the R from making myself better, because that is a slow process and then she actually has to respond to it. Kinda like photons taking hundreds of thousands of years to escape the interior of the Sun. Lots of backwards steps along the way.
Well I've made some steps in personal improvement. I'll let you know how it turns out as it plays out. Thanks for the advice.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Globule! How could you?! Two-timing us on the boards! I can see Blackfoot swinging on over to those sights but not you!! (I'm just playing with you). 
Still figuring this all out.
You should ask your H about it. I'm sure its a little different for everybody. 
