Quote: The Neander is a river and “Tal” is the German word for valley.
[threadjack]
Actually, "Neander" was originally a person. Joachim Neander (1650-1680), teacher and hymnist, who enjoyed nature walks in the secluded Düssel valley. He wrote songs and poems there, and the locals thought him a cute eccentric. In the 19th century, someone named a cave "Neanderhöhle" after him. Later, during the process of quarrying limestone, the cement industry turned the narrow ravine into a large valley ... which was then called "Neanderthal" and the river the "Neander River". In that valley, in 1856, the famous Neanderthal Man was found.
As I followed up, I believe there is a sequence to recovery. You must not only come to your realizations, but follow through with them in certain order. Skipping steps will not necessarily get you there faster and could actually take longer if something is not addressed that is important to the spouse. And it all takes a LONG time.
My advice to you is based on one objective AT THIS TIME ONLY. No one can properly process information in a heightened emotional state, which both you and wife are currently in. You both need some reassurance to get through the panic state. You can only do this by talking. She can only do this by having time alone, to cool down and not feel engulfed. This is harder on you (and me) but you’ve caught a glimpse into her inner feelings. I do not think she wants to leave or divorce, so this confirmation should help your peace of mind, and let you give her the room she needs. The hypocrisy is that she is really feeling abandonment (and betrayal) and needs reassurance. You will have to feel out how to balance those things, and it will not be easy.
When we were first married, my wife could go two weeks easy without speaking to me. Now, if it is a biggie, I let about 3 days pass, smaller things need a day. Your wife doesn’t seem nearly as angry as mine. But occasionally let her know you are there for her, you are concerned about her, do extra things to help out, bring her some flowers, etc. This is already a 180 for you. Combine this with some self assuredness. Show that you are sorry for what you did, but don’t breakdown over it. Maintain an air of dignity. This will be another 180.
Then give her as much time as she needs, but DO NOT PUSH. Doing so is strictly to fulfill your needs not hers, and she knows this. She sees your pushy behavior as selfishness. If you care for her, do what she wants (which we can only guess at. Once you both become functional, she will learn to tell you what she needs.)
Another thing about your mental state. I believe you fantasize too much, which in part has led to this problem. Fantasy works both ways, you dream of what you want, but you have the disturbing visions too. I have been through this as well. My experience is that the simple answer, not the fantasized one, is usually correct. Her wants are very simple and so are yours. Focus on that. Your dreams of becoming a new man with more sexual prowess is attainable, to whatever your limitations will allow, but your fantasy may be exceeding that. Don’t be your worst enemy. I believe that what you are going through is exactly what others would call an MLC, except on a slightly toned down scale from what is usually posted on the other boards. You might look through some threads over there.
Oh.. I just read your update to Mrs. NOP. I would advise you telling your wife that you will completely break things off with the other woman, and do all you can to avoid her at work. And saying she broke things off with you does not say much about your intentions does it. Basically your answers were all conditional, leaving the door open should things not work out with your wife. This is why she was quiet. She does want to forgive you, but your fear prevents you from taking the necessary commitment. You must in no uncertain terms commit yourself to your wife and no other. She is very acutely listening for this and will not move from her position until she is confident of it. You are either 100% in or out, there is no in between.
I think your conditioned response actually did a lot of damage. Now she thinks she has seen into your soul, and it says you are playing your options. You’ve got to come clean on this or she will hang onto it forever. ALWAYS look at things from her perspective. This is the allure of Blackfoot. Would your wife felt better if you said something like “I realize I have issues to work on and room to mature and accept greater responsibility (this is for your crying). But I now see how much I love you and want to be with you forever (or something like this…). I have broken all ties with the other woman and will do everything to stay away from her at work and communicate with her only when required and in a professional manner. I commit myself fully to you….” Now think about how this would sound to someone in her shoes. Compare it to what you said. See the difference?
Also, I like what Honeypot is saying. Listen to her.
Boy, that was a first class a$$ whooping. It seems like you basically said the same thing in a milder tone to me last week. I guess I can be stubborn.
OK. I get the message now that you brought out the big gun. I'll chill out. Just be Mr. Cool and vent here if I need it. If I start making signs that I am thinking of going back into pressure mode, slap me around some more, will yah?
Personal Goals for me (1) Get down into the 230s. I makes it easier to do the thunderous dunk thing. (2) Get caught up in my work. The birth has gotten me a little behind (up at 4 AM this morning). (3) Read an R book. I already have Relationship Rescue by Dr. Phil, but I am open to suggestions as to one that would be better in my current sitch. (4) Help the wife in whatever way she needs with the newborn and the twins. I'm already doing that, but I can try to think of other ways. (5) Plan ahead for how I am going to try to ease into a physical relationship with the W. The plans may all be nought, but it gives me a focus for my problem-solving energy.
Any other suggestions?
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I kinda like both the nice hotel and the camping. It depends on who I'm with. If I'm with someone who likes to stay up all night chatting over a fire, I'll take the tent. If I'm with someone who wants to hit the hotel bar, then the beach, then get a movie on the hotel TV well ...
I have heard people say that you should write everything down before an appointment. I'm going to do that for both the MC and the psychiatrist. I like your point about how I really know more than the C what I need to make it work. I gotta remember that and not let her talk me into something that feels wrong without at least probing the issue in depth.
I have asked her about her expectations, and she was very vague. I am afraid that she will say that she doesn't feel the need for sex anymore if I really press her. I think I will take Honeypot's advice and chill out for awhile. But I'll keep all this in the back of my mind. They don't delete old threads here do they?
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Then we could have coffee and chocolate together!" I actually don't drink that much coffee because it tends to make me hyper, but I do enjoy a cup of the good stuff every now and then, especially after a nice dinner with friends. And chocolate, well I may not have that sexual rush that they say some women get from it, but its still good stuff. Love those Dove chocolate ice cream bars, you know the ones on the popsicle sticks. Love to watch the W eat em too. Pretty sexy even if she isn't trying.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
