neanderthals (sp?). Yes, that is spelled correctly and it is pronounced TALL not THAL at the end (I almost majored in anthropology). Do you think it would be better to bring these feelings out in front of a third party (the C)? Who can say for sure. I found it made no difference whether this stuff came up in front of C or not. Don't put all of your hopes into the C sessions. They are there to assist you but will not provide answers. You need to come up with that on your own The bleak possible future ahead of me with no sex and little or no affection makes me feel weak at times. That hurts to read also. I am way ahead of you in this dept but it is all a matter of degree. I am still not satisfied with the way things are going. Not so much the sex, but the EC. Unfortunately, you are lacking both I'm not sure how long I would have been able to stay with the M if H did not start showing me SOMETHING in the way of sexual intimacy. He is making efforts which counts for a lot. Your W really needs to show you some small gesture and SOON. Screw waiting a year! You'll go batty by then. Make sure you bring that up to the C. "I think she assumes you are just going to go back to being "normal" Globule and life goes on" I can assure you that is not going to happen. I couldn't do it if I wanted to. I think I have made that clear to her but I'll try again. I totally agree with you here. I couldn't go back if I wanted to. I have told H this and he likes the new me better anyways. Your W needs to embrace the new you as well. Hopefully she will come to her senses and not make things worse than they already are
Globule responded to you Cobra with Can it really be this simple? I mean simple as in what it is, not how to deal with it. She doesn't feel like I have apologized enough? I think you are way off on this one. "Profusely apologizing" is not going to make a dent in her "idealized woman" persona. Sure, he should apologize but let's not discount her part in this mess. You saved it at the end when you wrote For you, though, do not let your sense of guilt overwhelm you. She is just as dysfunctional and had a role to play in all of this. It is a learning experience for her as well as you. That is right on the money. But, she needs to LEARN from it herself if things in the M are to get better. Only time will tell. She will not show it but she really needs support and validation. She wants someone to come and hold her and let her know everything will be alright. Does she? What behaviors has she displayed to make him believe this? In fact, when he appraoches her she shoved him away. You cannot force what you think the solution is if the other person does not want to fix the M! The problem I have with these people (my wife included) is though they may be connected and feel attached to you, they are too scared to show it. This means she was probably more attached to you than you realize. Actions speak louder than words and Globule is getting neither! How can we make assumptions about how she is feeling if she does not say it or act like it? Is it a guess? I found it very telling that when Globule asked her "You do know that I love you don't you?" She brushed it off. That may be projection on her part. Remember from the first post, "you never swept me off my feet." Maybe she still feels this way about HIM and thus treats him the way she does. She needs some sense of vengeance to process her anger. Do you see now why there is no way she could have sex with you, or even consider it. In fact, your asking any mad her madder since you seemed even more selfish after hurting her so massively. What!? So now we are saying it is ok for her to be withholding sex/affection/intimacy because he deserves it? Two wrongs don't make a right. If my H said there was going to be no sex because of OM I would have said "don't let the door hit you on the way out." Either she wants to fix it or she doesn't! Sorry Cobra, just had to get that out. Don't take it personally
I need to position my statements in terms of a broader strategy, which I have not outlined. First LFL, I totally agree with everything you said. She needs to accept her part in this and what she did to push him away. This mess is a 50/50 affair. But his will not move her off center. Right now I don’t think she wants anything to do with him. So step one is to let her process her anger. She cannot rationally acknowledge her faults as long as she is filled with anger.
Once she gets this out of her system, then she will be open to hearing his apology. This will not be easy or come quickly. It will be the hardest and most prolonged part of this process and could take months (hopefully not). Once she can accept this, then she can start to listen to her issues. This will take even longer, as you know. The approach I see is little different from what I am proposing to Oh_So_Blue on the MLC thread. I think she is slowly making good progress, and it could work here too.
But I do not think the DB method espoused for MLC will work. And the time it will take if it does work will drive Globule insane. Communication is good for both Globule and his wife. She wants this as much as he. EVERY time my wife an I get to such an impasse, we can always resolve things once we start communicating. She wants this connection but will not let herself have it. The problem is getting her to work through her anger, open up, become vulnerable and talk. I see the same here.
For some of your other comments, yes, in many ways all of this is a guess. Nothing is guaranteed, but I think you are making the mistake of reading the events literally. Few people truly act as they really feel. That is why most of us are dysfunctional. If we acted in a way that reflected our true feelings, none of this would ever arise. I think she is very hurt. I don’t think she wants to divorce. I think she wants a happy marriage and family. All of this is a guess, but I never met anyone who wanted to worst option the future could hold without exploring every possibility first. If this is not the case, then she is truly disturbed and there is no hope anyway. So trying this won’t make any difference.
This is my take and my guess. And no, I’m not taking it personally. We are all trying to help. Cobra
Though I do not agree in whole with Cobra that now you have your wife pegged. I do have to say this statement stood out to me
Do you see now why there is no way she could have sex with you, or even consider it. In fact, your asking any mad her madder since you seemed even more selfish after hurting her so massively.
The reason is since your other post of lying on the floor crying in front of your wife after ending the relationship with other woman. I was thinking maybe she did not react because she was not allowed time to react. Maybe she finds your actions of feeling sorry for yourself over the lose of OW as selfish and is disgusted with it. I am sorry but if my H behaved as such I would find it incredulous. That instead of crying out of sorrow for the pain inflicted on me the wife he would be crying out of lose of the OW in my presence and find myself very appalled in his presense. I am not trying to be harsh. But I have given this much thought as to how I would respond in this sitch over the last day or so. And that is pretty much it. The image of a adult male lying on the floor crying is very overwhelming to me though. I have never experienced anything of the sort in my 41 years. Of course there has only been one emotional male involved in my life so I would be out of my league in how to deal with this.
I have a really emotional nephew but he uses tears to manipulate people at times and I am very aware of this. So I do not deal with his crying I will end a conversation with him as soon as he starts. He called me this summer crying when he had a flat tire and could not make it to the house to see me. I hesitate to say I was fairly put off with him and after the second call just did not answer the phone any more. The only other association I have of a male crying was when my step dad would come home and start a fight with my mom ie dinner was not good enough the table was not set right what ever. Half way through a screaming jag he would then start yelling how she was trying to give him a heart attach and crying. I remember being appalled by his behavior he started the fights and then wanted sympathy from my mom. So maybe the image of a male crying is just one of those things through past association I feel as unmanly. And it may not relate to your sitch at all.
As to your continued contact with other woman via mutual friend. I do not know that would be considered contact if you are not sending messages through her. If she is more of a sounding board who on occassion gives you updates of OW sitch without playing middle man to the two of you it is not really contact IMO. Though it does keep you thinking about her which may not be in your best interest. But you will discontinue this when you are ready.
Maybe she finds your actions of feeling sorry for yourself over the lose of OW as selfish and is disgusted with it. I am sorry but if my H behaved as such I would find it incredulous. That instead of crying out of sorrow for the pain inflicted on me the wife he would be crying out of lose of the OW in my presence and find myself very appalled in his presense The man was just told us he was on the verge of suicide. I think we can cut him some slack for crying on the floor.
Quote: I'll have to admit that I did not make it absolutely clear how I felt about OW or what she meant to me. The C warned me not to give any details and basically to stop talking about it to the W saying it would just cause her unecessary pain. I've been trying to find ways to let the W know how OW made me feel and the things it made me aware of that I need without tying it to the EA. It is a difficult dance for sure, and I know my wife is probably smart enough to see me doing it.
Does your wife want to talk about it? Has she ever asked you questions about it? I've read through your thread, but must have missed how, when and why you told her and what her reaction was and is. Have you said and I missed it? If so, let me know and I'll dig back through. If not, would you post it?
Quote: Maybe she finds your actions of feeling sorry for yourself over the lose of OW as selfish and is disgusted with it. I am sorry but if my H behaved as such I would find it incredulous. That instead of crying out of sorrow for the pain inflicted on me the wife he would be crying out of lose of the OW in my presence and find myself very appalled in his presense The man was just told us he was on the verge of suicide. I think we can cut him some slack for crying on the floor.
I don't think Chrissy's comment was proposed in order to give him a hard time. I think it was an accurate assessment of what some betrayed spouses might be feeling under the same circumstances
In the same situation, I don't think my heart would be very open and understanding toward my spouse if he had just proclaimed his love for another woman and then collapsed before me. In fact, my internal dialog would be pretty unpleasant and all pointed at my spouse.
Has anything been posted anything in regards to his wife's reaction to the news?
I don't think Chrissy's comment was proposed in order to give him a hard time. I think it was an accurate assessment of what some betrayed spouses might be feeling under the same circumstances Yes, I see your point. I think I was reacting more to her comments that it is not considered "manly" for men to cry. Not that she was agreeing or not, but it obviously made her uncomfortable. Someone else I think mentioned something similar, implying that his crying was not an acceptable way to handle his feelings. Let's face it, boys are taught from a young age not to cry. Anyone who deviates from the societal gender roles is looked at as "abnormal". I just think men and women should be able to express their emotions in any way that THEY feel is cathartic for them. We should not judge Globule for crying, whether it was about OW or not, in front of W, or not. He was obviously distraught over his LIFE not just OW. As for the crying, my impression was he tends to do this alone, as he has stated many times, so that his W and family do not hear him. Maybe he will clear this up. MrsNop, you just asked for more details on how the W was told, etc so I'm sure Globule will let us know what he thinks.
"if you get any kind of emotional reaction out of her, that's good. Exchanging feelings is good. You CANNOT ruin this marriage with one conversation. YOU and your feelings are not dangerous to her. Revealing yourself will not hurt her." I'm not so sure I completely agree. It seems like every time I open up and am completely honest with her about an issue, she just gets upset and/or clams up. I'm going to post a little bit later after I answer the others about what happened tonight.
"They are part of who you are-- the fun, the sexiness, the playfulness, the imagination. Those are yours and no one, not even your W, can take them away from you or out of you. Do you understand that?" The problem is I can feel it inside me but it doesn't have an outlet. When I am at work I have to be careful about how I interact with people based on my job. When we go out to do things it is mostly with her family, so I can't be myself there. And when I get home I just mostly feel as if the rug gets pulled out from under me. I know in your heart that you are right, but I just don't feel as if there is any acceptance of the new me in my life, so there is this battle between who I want to be and who it seems the people in my life want me to be.
You are right it is like a switch that I can't turn off though, hence my daily angst. It would be easier to just fold up the happy sexy globule right now, but I can't do it.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Thanks for the insight and for sharing your situation. I'm going to post a bit later about what happened tonight. See if it still fits your theory. Thanks again.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I'm not sure how long I would have been able to stay with the M if H did not start showing me SOMETHING in the way of sexual intimacy. He is making efforts which counts for a lot. Your W really needs to show you some small gesture and SOON. Screw waiting a year! 
You'll go batty by then. Make sure you bring that up to the C.