Learning to trust myself III

[heatherg]

maybe if you change your behavior you can avoid a repeat of him putting his hands around your throat. But you can't change him from being a person who would put his hands around your throat under certain conditions

Very true. Gosh, how depressing. Really though, I think it is the heart of why I cannot say I love you to H.

And you know what? Maybe he feels that he can change the behaviors that contributed to my going outside of the M, but he cannot change me from being the kind of person that would do such a thing, which is also NEVER justified. What do you think?

I think that the A I had was a deal breaker for him, at least in the short term. I think that he would have reconsidered over time. But because of the kids, he couldn't bring himself to break the deal. I really believe that if we could have gone through that process, he would have come to the realization that he could forgive me. Now, he doesn't have to. I think we both needed to "choose" each other again, I see that as a crucial step in this process.

Right now, we are rebuilding trust. He has to trust that I would not go outside of our M again. I need to trust that......I need to clarify what Heather needs. I am reading the Dance of Anger and that book is awesome. Every page, I think to myself "THAT'S me!!" The book talks quite a bit about taking the focus off of the other person and put feelings back into "I" statements. I'm horrible at "I" statements. "I" don't know who Heather is or what she needs. I know what I don't like. But can't quite get to what I do like. Probably because it never mattered. But it needs to start mattering to me. And maybe I haven't given H a fair chance to give me what I need. Maybe.

And you should try different things and see how they affect H.

This can get really scary. I need my DB friends to be there for me!! I'm afraid to rock the boat. I need to get unafraid. But first I need to clarify what I need and want. Then I need to convey it. Then I need to give him a chance to absorb and react. Then I need to consider boundaries and re-evaluate what I want/need vs what H is willing to give and what his wants/needs are. Easier said than done!!

Just don't expect that he's going to react to you like a healthy person would.

In the past, I knew his reactions would not be what seemed "right" to me and I let this deter me from really trying. Maybe if I can get the courage to try and really put it out there and just let his reactions be his, maybe things can change. I'm a scaredy cat

Your mini-A is water way under the bridge by now.

Before I can declare it water under the bridge, I think I have to follow through on my invitation to openly discuss it at established times. This invitation was put on hold by the fact that H had to out of town again. If we can get to the point where we can discuss it rationally, that will be great. Right now, it's just an elephant in the room. Maybe if we can make it real and discuss it and I can validate his feelings, then it really can become water under the bridge.

I see your point though, eventually, it has to become water under the bridge. I just don't think the time is yet. I have to open the door first and let him know it's open. Then I have to prove it's a good thing by responding in the ways I know he would want me to-just validate, don't justify, don't blame, etc. We haven't done that yet and I think it's absolutely necessary. We'll see where that takes us.

If you want to sleep in the marital bed, then from now on that's where you should sleep.

OMG, just reading and thinking about his actually got my heart rate up. After the above step takes place, which will be a process, I will have to consider this. But, fortunately for me, lol, that time is not yet. Last time I tried to sleep in the marital bed...well, I think I posted about it already. Let's just say he scared the hell out of me and I still get upset when I think about it. At some point, I think you're right though, a decision has to be made. We cannot continue forever in this semi-marriage. It either is or it isn't. But it will get ugly if it has to come down to this. Trust me.

If he's happy having just a live-in, co-parenting R with you then good for him. But even that R requires more from him than he's giving right now.

How so do you think?

[heatherg]

I was re-reading the last few posts on my thread and realized that this came across harsher than I had intended:

At first, I just ignored the statement because I don't agree and didn't really want to get into a discussion about it. But since you've mentioned it again,

I only meant it matter-of-factly. I hope that's how it was taken. NY, you know I always value your input. I just don't always agree. I hope we're good enough friends that we can tell each other when that's the case.

[Burgbud]

And you know what? Maybe he feels that he can change the behaviors that contributed to my going outside of the M, but he cannot change me from being the kind of person that would do such a thing, which is also NEVER justified. What do you think?

First, I think that even though both things are NEVER justified that doesn't make them equivalent. Second, I don't believe he thinks that because he hasn't shown me any signs of changing his behavior. Third, if he did think that, he'd be exactly right, and that makes my point. He has done *nothing* to influence you to be the kind of person who wouldn't have an affair, but *you* have. You stopped when you were doing it because you knew it was wrong. You've been working awfully hard to help your M become one in which you won't be in a vulnerable emotional state. You recognized it was a problem and have been working to overcome it. That's a healthy response to an unhealthy behavior. Given your willingness to change your behaviors to make it easier for him to change his, if he was willing to recognize and try to rectify his problematic behaviors, you guys would be well on your way to a great M. Until that time, your changes will only impact his actions to a certain point.


But even that R requires more from him than he's giving right now.

How so do you think?

If you were a single mom and were looking for after work help with the kids in exchange for room and board, would you hire him? Or would you hold out for someone who shows you more respect?


I think that the A I had was a deal breaker for him, at least in the short term. I think that he would have reconsidered over time. But because of the kids, he couldn't bring himself to break the deal.

Too bad for him. If the A was a deal breaker he should break the deal. If not, he needs to suck it up and deal with reality. Kind of like how I really shouldn't date as long as I'm not willing to give Steff the boot, even though I don't feel like that's something I can feasibly do. Too bad for me; I have to deal with the consequences of my decisions. Likewise, he doesn't get to go around with a "poor me, look at what I have to put up with for the sake of the kids" attitude, making your life miserable when he wants to. He has to make the effort to make the situation he's chosen work for everybody involved. If he's not willing to leave, you have the right to his respect while he's there.

[NYsurvivor]

For example, does H have a fear? It appears he does, but hell, maybe he just doesn't want to talk about it. Is it a fear? Sure, maybe, call it what you want. The way I see it, it doesn't matter if it is a fear or not per se. What matters is that he doesn't like to discuss it and is projecting that onto our son. Is that rationalizing?

You looked up a definition of rationalizing, apply it where it may be applicable.

[heatherg]

Ok NY, will do. Thanks.

Not a whole lot going on in the R department as H is still out of town. We talk on the phone a few times a day, he's been calling every day during working hours so that he can talk to just me. He's very busy during the day and only gets a half hour for lunch, but he still makes time to call me. That's encouraging because when he calls during the day, I know he's calling just to talk to me.

I had a disturbing dream last night. I dreamt that H and I were sleeping in the same bed, maybe ML I'm not sure, and I kissed him. He pulled away and got very angry. I got very upset and he tried to apologize but I wouldn't let him. Ugh. Pathetic.

I am going to look at a house today. With the kids and all their toys, our family has really outgrown our home. I came across something that sounds really perfect, so I'm excited to see it. It's on 5.5 acres on the river and horses are allowed. Not that we have any. Yet I keep telling D2 to tell Daddy that she wants a pony...she LOVES horses. So, I'm just encouraging her, lol. The house has 3,000 sq ft with unfinished space in addition to that. I'm excited to see it.

[heatherg]

The house was pretty and the land was beautiful but there were things that I didn't like that would need to be changed. I'm not paying that much money for a house and then have to "change" things, lol. H sounded disappointed that I didn't like it. I have wanted to move for a long time because our house is just too small, but in the past H would never entertain the idea. But oddly, now he seems ready.

I see my counselor today. I haven't seen her in about three weeks. Since Bud suggested that I sleep in the marital bed if I want to, I've been thinking about that quite a bit. There are two things holding me back. One is consideration for H's feelings. The other is fear. Not fear of upsetting him or disturbing the balance in our R. Fear of what he will do, how he will react. I am afraid of him. I don't think he'd hit me or anything like that but I'm afraid of the abuse nonetheless. He didn't have to hit me last time either, but it was one of the worst memories I have to date. From that experience I learned that one does not have to hit to be abusive. I still have a scar and I'm scared to do it again.

Regarding considering his feelings, I feel that I have considered his feelings. In fact, I've put his feelings ahead of mine all along on this issue. How long is long enough?

Ideally, I'd like to tell him that I need to sleep in the marital bed. I feel that I have given him space and consideration and I will still honor his feelings if he does not want to sleep in the same bed as me and I will support his decision to sleep elsewhere if he so chooses.

The Dance of Anger has pointed out that this issue is really *my* problem, not H's. It's not H's problem because he is happy with things as they are. If I have a problem with the sleeping arrangements, then it is my responsibility to address it. I cannot blame him. I cannot change him. So, I have to change myself. That means I have to change where I sleep. He can sleep where he wants, but he can't make *me* sleep where he wants.

I understand his feelings, he has been hurt and disappointed and his outlook on certain things has probably been changed forever. If he does not want to sleep in the same bed as me, I have no choice but to validate that. But he has to make those arrangements then, he cannot dictate that someone else (me) has to accomodate his feelings.

Now to think about a plan. Timing. How I tell him.

[heatherg]

Oh, and I'm scheduled for a 'healing touch' session. My boss's wife has found her new passion in this and she is so excited and her belief in it is so profound that I took her up on her offer to have a session with me. She said she has heard of people being in counseling for years with no real benefits, but people who participate in healing touch seem to have a much more positive outlook after just one or two sessions. She said after her first session, she wasn't able to get a whole lot out of it just because she thought it was so weird. So she said she gave it about six months and tried it again and she said she found herself laughing more, etc.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has had any alternative healing experiences.

[NYsurvivor]

Now to think about a plan. Timing. How I tell him.

I think you just do it, not announce it. Actions, not words.

Heather, I think you should live the way you wish to. This may not be easy, but... If he's uncomfortable with you in the bed, leave it up to him to change beds. If he makes it uncomfortable for you, tell him to leave the room. IOW, continually put the onus on him.

[anna123]

Heather - I know what a big deal the return to the marital bed is in your marriage. You belong there, so please believe that.

Wishing you sweet dreams in your own bed!

[koshka]

Heather,

Regarding considering his feelings, I feel that I have considered his feelings. In fact, I've put his feelings ahead of mine all along on this issue. How long is long enough?

It was a ways back there. You're up to "too long" now.

What did your C say about this?

Thanks,

K