I agree with everything in your post to me MrsNop. It is all about how the OP makes you feel, not always the OP themselves. I just wanted to add that the outcome of those feelings is the same whether or not the affair was in secrecy or not. Sure my H knew I was seeing someone and Globule's W did not. But the end result was quite similar. Feelings better about ourselves (with a little more guilt thrown in for Globule of course). But I don't think anyone who has had such a personal transformation would take it back if they could. I wouldn't. If that means my M is beyond fixing then so be it. I do not think that is the case. In fact, things are so much better in many ways. I have enough perspective and insight to realize that the OP was not a long-term R, reM situation. I worry about some of Globule's comments, as others do, regarding his continued fantasy that the OP will somehow work out in the end, or be there for him if the M's go south. You are totally correct that the "rosy feelings" of an affair wear off pretty quick, especially when an attempt is made at a "real" R. But, it is much easier to say that intellectually, much harder when in the midst of the turmoil. Globule knows intellectually that he needs to have no contact with the OW (even through the mutual friend) but he has to get to the place where he is ready to do it himself. All of us yammering about it through the keyboard and throwing in our 2 cents is really about making ourselves feel better, that We know the Right thing to do and he is being immoral, irresponsible, selfish, whatever. It is not for any of us to judge how he handles himself and his own M. He is on this board for support NOT his W. If she were here, that would be a different story. I know, I know, we are telling him these things for HIS OWN benefit and the benefit of the M. Maybe, maybe not. Only he knows what is best for him. Obviously we all come from very different backgrounds and have very different perspectives on life. I think we should respect that. That's all. Sorry to go on and on in response to you post MrsNop. That wasn't really directed at you