Re ZB
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So I want things to change, but I don’t want to rock the boat and put W into the “crucible”.

Well ZB, I didn't want to either but living like this is not working.

The thing is not to avoid the “crucible”, but how to impliment it. That is my problem right now. Instesd of avoiding the “crucible", think "what are my skills?" What issues do I want to change? What looks like a first step?
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I just feel like it’s part of my job as a husband, as a father, and as a man, to provide for my family and to do whatever I can to make them happy and safe. I’ve always felt that it was my job to provide for them – and that includes the aforementioned happy and safe.


How about this version (I just feel like it’s part of my job as a husband, as a father, and as a man, to provide for my family and to do whatever I can to make them some what happy and safe. I’ve always felt that it was my job to provide for them).

My take on your situation is Mrs ZB would be only happy living like a neighbor of mine (two divorced women) that have 160 cats and 10 dogs. People volunteer and help them.
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but there is a lot in Christian teaching about being a servant, having a servant’s heart, dieing to self, and things of that nature

What if everyone just dies. No heaven, no hell, no judgment record? What if everything is based on the "Golder Rule" or some socialogical model that states "do what is the most good for the most people" and people who over indulge other people are a problem similat to the people that just take?

I tought sunday school for a while and then had some classes in sociology, psychology, and statistics shortly after. Talk about conflicting ideas. Can you prove your beliefs are correct and are they making you and your family happy?
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I was happy and fulfilled with OW, but I had this nagging guilt over what was “right”. What I wanted was sacrificed for what was best for my daughter and for the duty I had to W and to God.

Is it working? I can see doing right by/for the kids, but the way your post reads, that put in an almost no win situation with your W's present state of mind.

I think "doing the right thing" only works if everyone is on the same page.
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I would be much happier if things in my M would change

Back to where I started. What does "Right" look like. What skills do you have to make the changes. Where are your "stuck" points. I have "I'm stuck at points" I am working on.

ZB, I don't have my situation fixed, I intend to do the "right things" and fail sometimes.

Do you read LFL and Glob's post about how dead they felt but had glimpse of excitement when they were with the OP. You felt it too with the OW. And add Lil's post that that happiness is in you at this time. The OP did not give it to you. Is that enough for you to want something better?

I always thought A's were a bad thing. Well I changed my mind. some good can come from an A. It's sad they cause so much pain though.

The Germans during WWII exposed people to varing degrees of cold and moisture. This was a research project. Many people died. After the experiments, some people did not want to use the data because it was basically obtained by torture methods. Other people said to use the data to honor the dead because some good came from a bad thing. Should we not use the data to save other people? My opinion to use it to make someones life better.

Can you use anything in your M from your relationship with the OW? i don't have any suggestions how you can do this at this time, but read LFL and Glob's posts and take your ideas, condense it down and see it there is an answer or a motivating factor in there somewhere.

Lou Astroglide for one

PS Maybe Mrs ZB and spot can get together with Mrs Lou and her babies and have tea on Friday. Then you and I can talk. BTW how is 4th grade? (nothing about you ZB) I am just stating how I feel about animals taking a dominate role in the family