ar.. she obviously wants something better... she watches sue and approached you with the idea... There is a difference betweeen pushing and initiating. Occasonally initiating and not reacting emotionally if it is rejected, which it will be the first few times you try, for various reasons, is going to get you where you want to be sooner. when it happens just saying Ok, and move on.
What is the deal with wearing clothes to bed? can someone- anyone explain the reasoning behind this? I just dont get it. The whole hammering it out before hand... I would try just implementing it. She has already given you a green light and outlined it. As long as you dont push or accelerate beyond what she is comfortable with, youll do ok.
Light the candles, put on some soft music, and she will figure out what you are up too. Talking about it kills it. whispering about how good she smells, running your fingers from her neck to collarbone, looking in her eyes and saying I love you without opening your mouth will heat it up. Create tension. If she likes something.. Stop. go back a step. If you move faster then she is ready, or ASK, it KILLS the tension. If there is a problem then I would talk about it.
Here is a couple books for you to read, "How To Drive Your Woman Wild In Bed" by Masterson and "Sexational Secrets" by Bakos.
Thank you for the constructive advice, blackfoot, but if you perused the previous threads I linked, you would see (a) just how hard it was for me to break the ice on this subject in the first place, and (b) just how easily I bungled it into something that was nearly a disaster. If I learned nothing else from that, I learned just how carefully I have to tread with regard to this subject.
That said, the one advantage this current plan has is that it was my wife's idea. No matter how resistant she may be to any of my suggestions, it's a different story when it's her suggestion in the first place. Now all I have to do is play along, show good faith by respecting the boundaries of the plan (subject to her desire to go beyond, of course), and see what happens.
Once we've actually managed to get past the sexual watershed, then it'll be easier for me to discuss things with her like, "If I want to express my interest in ML with you, what are good ways for me to do that?" and "If you really aren't interested, how can I figure that out and stop before I upset you?" Both of which will be important for me to know if I am ever to be comfortable with the concept of initiating.
Thank you also for the book suggestions, but we're just not at that level yet. Again, after we've managed to get past the watershed, it'll be a better time to concentrate on matters of technique. One must learn to walk before one enters the decathlon, after all!
Sometime this weekend I'll discuss this with her. Preferably after buying her plenty of chocolate.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
just to make sure I was clear..... when I said initiate, I was talking about the plan she has already spoken to you about. The snuggling for a few minutes, etc. The things I suggested are low key, only take 30 seconds or so and can be done in passing. they arent aggressive but they are stimulating.
sounds like you and your wife have opened some dialogue, enjoy your journey.
Quote: you arent differnt, you have some different programming. You have X & Y chromosome, more testosterone then a woman, different attraction mechanisms then a woman. Everything else that controls your actions is environmental. YOUR perception. You can change that
Well, of course I'm different from women...the issue is being different from other men. Sure, I've got the same "hardware" as they do, but the "software" is different...and some of it, I suspect, may not even be "installed." (Mixed metaphors all over the place today...)
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
tell me about yourself and your w. what do you do, do a little bragging- what are you good at etc. time to change your software. If you want give me an email, I know some really good resources for changing it relatively fast. Ill point you in the right direction.
stress comes from a unfixed problem in our lives. it leads to changed biology, which makes it a domino effect of falling physcology. you need to fix the prob not the symptom.
your installed software is trying to override your EEPROM and the result is crashes.
Please realize, blackfoot, that I can't get into too much detail; I am posting under an assumed identity to avoid any linkage between what I post here and my "real" online identity, which has a somewhat widespread reputation...and Google sees all. (This sort of thing has actually burned some friends of mine recently.) For a similar reason, outgoing E-mail is problematic.
That said, I can say that I develop software for a small company somewhere in the continental U.S., and I'd like to think I'm pretty good at that. My wife is not working right now, but has previously held a variety of jobs, her most recent working with animals. We have no children--she can't have them--but we have two cats who can make up for that.
Aside from software stuff...I don't do much, and little of it well. I do read a lot, and have a good memory for what I read; that may show in some of the posts I make here. I play video games, including some online, but I'm not really very good at those...but I never trash-talk my opponents, and don't mind losing.
Can't really think of anything else.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
ok AR, relax I am not trying to out you, you misunderstood what it is I was asking of you. it doesnt matter to me who you secifically are.
just need to know about you
the playing video games and software devleoper, etc is good it gives me a general idea. I was a big xbox online fan for awhile, halo, halo2, etc.
I did it for relaxation, cheap entertainment, and way to virtually hang with some of my friends who are in your biz scattered across the US.
My x did not find it attractive. In fact at one point in our first seperation she blamed it for our D.
seriously how much time would I have to spend on it for it to have a impact on a R. Is what she said logical? Did I sit down and talk about it with her, try to reason, and explain why I did it and how I would try to do better the next time? NO
I laughed at her and told her to take some responsibility quit blaming other things.
Crazy thing to do, if I wanted to get back together right? Well at this time I had my balls firmly back in place and was able to say these things without resentment or anger, and call Sh!T when I saw SH!t. we were back together, 2 weeks after this particular exchange. there were many more seemingly crazy things like this that I did during this time that make no logical sense, dont seem like the 'NICE' thing to do. But they are the right thing to do when dealing with a woman.
you know about yourself, men, that we have no control over our attraction to women. put a naked shaking a$$ in front of us and we become mesmerized. We control what we do about it, can tear our eyes away from it even, but it is enjoyable, you dont have to think --I should like that.-- you just do. even if you wish you didnt LOL.
women have this same attraction in them but it isnt a mans wiggling butt, or big arms. its personality traits and social value. Social value can overwhelm them in the beginning i.e. women fainting at the beatles or screaming at the sight of tom cruise, and I suspect it may have had a small part of your w initial attraction.
but if he ends up being a wuss after that it slowly, irrevocably shuts it off.
Your wife loves you, and is there with you still, you dont have to compete with OM or try to win her back. You just have to learn what the attractive personality traits are, implement them in yourselfr. the ones that are not, this is actually even more important get rid of as much as possible. And then the ML will slowly take care of itself.
Blackfoot, your theories/observations sound similar to the kind of advice I read once when I came across a Web site discussing techniques for picking up women. Of course, I can be interested in the "picking up women" part only from a pedagogic standpoint, as I'm not some sleazebucket who would go cheat on his wife. (Not that you ever suggested I was, mind! Just a statement to cover my own tuchus.) And I don't really have the "player" mindset anyhow.
Quote: you know about yourself, men, that we have no control over our attraction to women. put a naked shaking a$$ in front of us and we become mesmerized. We control what we do about it, can tear our eyes away from it even, but it is enjoyable, you dont have to think --I should like that.-- you just do. even if you wish you didnt LOL.
As it happens, I have observations along this line...I have seen performances of belly dancers up close a couple of times (in Middle-Eastern restaurants), and, both of those times, my reaction to the image of the dancer in front of me was to just..."pause" is the word I want to use, as "freeze" is a bit more violent than what I was feeling. I simply stopped moving, didn't say anything, even slowed down my breathing. And there I sat, until the dancer moved on. To this day, I couldn't tell you if I liked the performances or not. I gather this form of response is somewhat atypical. (Before you ask: No, I've never been to a strip club. And I have no real interest in going to one.)
Quote: Your wife loves you, and is there with you still, you dont have to compete with OM or try to win her back. You just have to learn what the attractive personality traits are, implement them in yourselfr. the ones that are not, this is actually even more important get rid of as much as possible. And then the ML will slowly take care of itself.
I'm not sure what you mean by this part. Are these "attractive personality traits" (as well as the unattractive ones) universal, or specific to the woman? And, if the latter, how do I go about finding which traits my wife finds attractive or unattractive? And implementing such sounds like no easy task, though I suppose that would have to depend on what the traits actually were.
It's a confusing business, it is.
- "A"
"Everything that happens, happens. Everything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen. Everything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again."
yes the things women are attracted to are universal. they can control their actions when it happens but they cant stop the feeling of attraction. often those feelings happens so rarely to them that they dont control it as well as men do who are bombarded constantly by what they are attracted to, and know exactly what it is. nor can they make it happen. If I placed your wifes brain in a mans body, you would no longer be attracted to her. she couldnt talk you into it. There are individual differences and environmental filters that get placed on top of it, but they are universal just like mens are universal. It has to be to make sure the species continues.
I have posted a number of times about these traits. I wanted to deal with you one on one, but I have been reading thru your thread and I dont think I can help you AR. So I dont want to waste either of our time, maybe making things worse for you and frustrating both of us.
I want to leave you with one thing though. When you are writing your code, if the result of your string is not what you wanted it to be, you dont keep writing it or entering it over and over saying it should work, I want it to work.
you try something different.
You have a plan, I think your wife really loves you alot, and I hope you guys continue to work together so you both are mutually happy.
Ill follow your thread and offer a suggestion or 180 if I see it.
Quote: you know about yourself, men, that we have no control over our attraction to women. put a naked shaking a$$ in front of us and we become mesmerized.
