Ladies I started reading your responses, and I laughed so hard, I dropped my laptop. Damnit.
out of that entire post that was the one thing each of you focused on. Do you know that each one of you (almost) 1 personalized my off hand remark that popped out of my head and 2 simultaneously tried to figure out how that fit into my x affair. completely mis-read and mis-interpreted it again. Your little jabs make me yawn. The reason to x affair is in my thread. complete and unvarnished. I exposed my mistakes completely. If you were able to ask her -x would say -sex and me being overbearing had nothing to do with it. I have already rebuilt my masculinity(love that phrase by the way) and my insecurities only exists in the context of a relationship with her, and him being alive. (this doesnt mean I wish him dead -just wont have a relationship with her as long as he is.)
I am here to continue my self- improvement and as a distraction to keep me from the unhealthy dating I was in for a couple months there, trying to avoid my pain,and from the pain in my scapulae while I am sitting around the house recovering. I hope to treat my next SO as SHE needs to be, without subjecting her to a situation where she has no repreive from OM who is copying me and given opportunity to make relevant emotional memories with her consistantly, so that she is not tempted to enter PIP's current HELL. (LORD, give her strength.)
After the first fiasco in HP's thread I thought --hmmm I am not going to post in the womens threads anymore. They are to sensitive to handle me and I am here to hopefully help guys learn about attraction. stick to that. But the following conversations were so educational and some great ideas were shared.
So tough. I am going to keep it up. I will be me and say how it is. If you dont like me in your thread you are welcome to say so, and I will respect that and post no more, in your thread.
And now CeMar is talking, grudgingly albeit, and you guys are in here cluttering up his thread with your curiosity about my former sex life. sheesh. so fine this may get graphic, but lets disect what I said, and remove your filters you all ran it thru.
Do you seriously think I have spent so much time understanding female attraction to feed some insecurity. No. Its so I can connect with the woman of my choice and we can emotionally connect and bang each others brains out. Leaving her high and dry on a regular basis would sure defeat that. Gosh I have to spell out everything. j/k
Personally when I am having sex regularly I perfer to not give her a climax every time. They dont need the frequency like we do and it keeps the woman unsatisfied and amped up and eager for the next encounter.
When I am having sex regularly, I does not mean you and your spouse. regularly for us was between 5-8x/wk, sometime more. There were times we were apart. I sure as hell made sure she (and we) were nothing but a limp, semi-conscious, puddle of satisfaction when we reunited. You wouldnt believe if I said how long, or how many times, and at any rate it is irrelavant to the fact that we were both happy.
I perfer to not give her a climax every time.
The key word here is GIVE. my x and I traded HDness only in the sense of who initiated, She was completely capable of taking charge and getting her own in several positions with me just there for erection life support. we had a verbal agreement that lasted the entire duration of our relationship 'anytime -anywhere', which was only vetoed by me a couple times because someplaces are just going too far. Risky is fine. Jail for public indecency or lewd conduct, ending up being a sex offender because of some aggresive ADA is not. and vetoed by her for the usual female complaints-UTI -rarely her period. Neither of us cared but she always checked to see if I really didnt.
They dont need the frequency like we do This is a physiological fact. Men need frequent ejaculation for prostate health and hormone balance. Sex is as important for our health as exercise or brushing are teeth. Have your LDH read the articles on msnbc.com under health. You lucky HDW have tapped into your physical selves and the addictive chemicals that result - many woman have not, and created emotional connections with it. I get it. Ditto. There are some HDH that havent- it is just nose blowing for them, a body function. Some guys feel a need to repress and control-- and some just have a habit of feeding the hunger x number times a week. Variety-- just like women are different.
the woman unsatisfied and amped up and eager for the next encounter If you grab a quicky in the car, or the shower before work, how many of you ladies would have an O? I bet all of you would be thinking about it thruout the day and looking to continue and finish in the evening. In most cases with our SOP sex I would give her 3 O's with cunnilingus before we would start IC and if she had some during or right after then hooray for her. When we would swap HD places ,figuratively speaking, there were many times when we would have sex and I would not finish. Im sure if you wnat to count O's she is 5 to 1 winner. Sometimes my need, or hunger would diminish. occasionally she would just use me. guess what-- I was unsatisfied and amped up and starting the cycle all over again PDQ. I have been used ,abused and cast aside by her in less then 5 minutes.
Like GEL said its all give and take. By the way GEL dont worry about hurting my feelings. I appreciated your second post but take it easy or I will get a big head. I can take any smack you ladies can dish out.
HP I am getting under your skin a little to much. That is not my intention. I know your H is a pretty strong man to handle a woman like you. Feel free to take your frustration out on me. I recommend maybe renting a comedy or going out to a comedy club or dinner theatre if they have those in your town. Laughter is a great release all on its own.
I am glad I made this statement. 2beme had some personal insights because of it.
The squeals of indignation and outrage coming from you teriffically intelligent girls is music to my soul. I really really dig smart chicks. and really dig pulling there chains. Lil Ill be over to your thread I promise, there is a lot in there that I am trying to wrap my head around still. Chrissy thanks for validating some of what I said since this is a thread for Captain Obvious.
Alrighty then I hear the harummphing and impatient finger tapping of said Captain Obvious, waiting for answers to his supposedly unsolvable sitch. (eyes rolling). I am coming sir. bow and scrape, bow and scrape.
Quote: (For a 45 year old man, I am in pretty darn good shape and yes, I am decent looking.)
Gel, I think like CeMar on this one because I know if I were in a Mr Hunk contest I would not be in the top ten. I am not concerned with being in the top ten either. I have what I have and use what I have the best I can. I don't need to be better than someone else. I just have to use what I have in a reasonably good order. I am also very realistic and not much into false ego boosting.
I used to inspect Army vehicles for combat reddiness. Each component (tires, batteries, engine, drivetrain, steering, etc) had a point value. If something was less than perfect, the number on the combat reddiness sheet was posted. Say new tires had 10 points each, half worn tires were rated at 5 points.
As an inspector, I had to be honest and after a while you are OK with less than perfect scores. Not everything can be a 10 and there is still a lot of milage left in 5 point items.
Maybe my analogy is too sinplistic/mechanical and I know being a beauty or a hunk sometimes is in the eye of the viewer, but it might explain some how the male mind works.
And about blackfoots comment about his W being hot but only a 9, I can go along with that too. I can feel a 10 for a good hearted, relationship skilled person, that looks like a 5 on the outside once I get to know them. Yes some things do turn me off. I am not totally influenced by inner beauty.
All this talk by young people about being a hunk or a babe is just initial attraction. Without the other personal qualities that people have to keep a R going, beauty/hunkieness soon loses out.
Give me a 5 looks wise that floats my boat in all ot he other ways anyday. Tens with poor relationship skills don't cut it.
Just go to Walmart and look at people and imagine how couples interact with each other. Good looking person with a fat plain looking spouse. Are they still in love? I don't have the answer but I think many are. How many 10's do you see at WalMart? Do the 5's need as much love or deserve less love than the 10's?
And they say guys go for looks!
GEL I don't know what you look like but I feel some caring in your posts. That means so much more to me than physical looks. GEL I think you are a 10 on the screen because you seem to have what it takes make a relationship go foward.
Quote: Women do seem to find a certain amount of self-confidence appealing & attractive
Point taken GEL and blackfoot, and I will remember your suggestion because I do see what lack of self-confidence does to women.
Thanks for the compliment, I do appreciate that. My point seems to be getting lost, or perhaps I'm simply not making it clearly.
When I look at myself in the mirror I see all my flaws, I accept them etc...just like you do, to some I'd be considered "eye candy" to some I'd probably be considered ok...what I'm talking about doesn't necessarily concern outer appearances.
The response of "yes I'm an attractive person" can encompass what you look like on the outside certainly, but it includes how you view yourself on the inside as well. See, when I say "yes, I'm an attractive woman"...I'm talking about what's inside as well as outside. I do confidently feel what I have to offer someone is all-in-all attractive. I truly feel someone is lucky to have me.
Is that conceited...perhaps in some ways, but it's more of a knowledge I have about myself. I am a giving, loving, caring person....who coincidentally enough comes in a fairly good looking package as well LOL.
That's more the confidence I'm talking about and I can speak from experience....men are attracted to that same type of confidence, just like women are. I think somehow my response was taken to mean that CeMar isn't confident with his "Looks"...that's not what I meant. I think it's his inner self-confidence he's not so sure about.
I am not morose and sitting around with a scowl on my face. That is not my personality. I was merely pointing out that you are (or were, whichever the case may be) dead fcuking wrong in how you were approaching this.
I've noticed a trend with you (and I'm not being mean, only being as blunt as you like to be) that you start hurling semi-insults (squeals of indignation, etc) when someone tells you that you are wrong. Perhaps a better way to handle it is to say, Hmmm what insight can I get into the female brain here?
After all, that is what you are trying to help us with--insight into the male brain.
OR, you can do as you did and flesh out your idea a little better, and with more sensitivity, as in your breaking down of the sentence. It turns out that you are NOT leaving her high and dry, as you insinuated, but rather doing what is natural in most relationships--most of the time it happens, sometimes it doesn't. That is fine with both partners and I doubt that it is all that unusual.
So, dude, what's up with the inflammatory language? Do you like seeing us chicks all in a dither about what you write?
As far as my state of mind, I laughed a lot this weekend with H. I don't know if you know anything about the Enneagram but he is a 6 and I am a 7. Both of these "types" of people like to laugh. Even at our worst, there is usually some laughs in there. We had a very good time with each other.
Having said that, though, I have a very sensitive bullshiit-o-meter. I call it when I see it.
I saw some in the false-bravado-I-like-leave-her-hanging, and I called you on it.
Your response made perfect sense to me that it seemed that both of you took and both of you gave. Sounds awesome to me! (btw, that is not a problem with me and MrHP and never has been)
Holy sh!t You are going to have to wait a minute again CeMar.
GEL and Zbube dialogue is sooooooo important in the difference between and mans perspective and a womans.
What CeMar said and what GEL and every other girl heard were completely different. HMMMMMM. Damn girls are filtering us and stuff. --What did he mean by that.-- ROFLOL.
To a guy age and shape are important, and that is the way almost every guy would answer. I bet Cemar is goodlooking, and sounds like he is a somebody in his career.
But Gel said it exactly how a woman wants to hear it. With confidance.
--Hey baby, ever date someone as good looking as me? -- said with humor, the less physically handsome you are the more a woman will love/ or at least laugh at this line. Making a woman laugh is good. Do IT.
Its funny I didnt ask CeMar if he was good looking, I said are you attractive. He like most men thinks that means looks --much as his statement about his peers having younger wives is (not wrong) typical male thinking. CeMar when I was asking if you were attractive I was really asking if you are someone who your wife should or would want to have be in love with and hence have sex with.
You arent entitled to it, because of success or what you provide, that would make her a hooker.
I bust on your ass like crazy for two reasons, 1 you need to lighten up, Life is supposed to be fun. You arent going to look back and go damn I am glad I was grumpy. I am getting less sex then you, or anyone else on this board probably. I dont even have a woman, or a prospect.
2 you need to be able to laugh at yourself. Your hesitance to really open up on an ANONYOUS BB says loads. I could walk into your office tomorrow and I wouldnt have the slightest clue. What are your faults. lets hear them. I promise to laugh hysterically.
You have a ton of work to do. Your view of the way things should be is not going to work .
Keep doing the same thing and you will get the same thing.
If you want to stomp your foot and say ML to me then let her go and go find someone new.
Are you willing to change your way of thinking and get in her head? Do you have any idea what she is thinking? What if the prize is ML? Her body has not quit if you can arounse her and bring her to climax.
I know from your post that your W is not ND. fact. I will not tell you how I know, and I hope none of the women here do either. Thats gonna piss you off, but tough bananas dude. I dont know if you can regain her respect, and her desire, but possibly you can try to work on her attraction. and if/when she gives a little you can start to lose some resentment.
I don't know. I dont promise. You got nothing to lose though. except your Bad mental attitude.
You should be so appreciative that she is willing to have sex whenever you want. You have no idea how much she loves you to do that. One key to happiness is being happy with what we have, while we work towards what we want. Be grateful.
That is a start for you. be grateful and find a way to show it in a unexpected manner. and dont expect sex afterwards. sheesh.
you opened up a little so I will answer some questions too. We trigger the sex drive, all you need to understand with that is we are the initiators, are you reading OG Lou's thread too? You and he have same prob different reasons. I dont want to repeat what I said there, go read it.
Would a strong confident man actually stay married to a ND women? I say this cause I know many powerful executives in my company have DUMPED their first wives and now have much younger 2nd wives.
The first question is stupid. A woman with a strong confidant man is not ND, unless she has been abused. Has your wife been abused? I need to know.
The second statement .... so they are a a$$hole's who couldnt figure out how to fix what they broke. You are not one of those guys, you have morals, and integrity, and you are here trying.
Unless you want to have multiple women, a new younger wife. I have fantasized about being King Solomon. Ill admit it. 400 wives and 600 concubines. YeeHaa. Sounds like heaven. Make a decision. Which do you want. Envy of your peers is not going to help.
I will not expand on the power of the mans mental state with you at this time. I need to know what yours is. You need to expand on yoursef to me. Trying to vacumn knowledge out of me like a book will not help you. Changing behaiviors and old habits is hard freaking work. HARD. Will you do it for you to be more attractive, period and have a happier life or are you just doing it to get laid. You cant fake this.
I have no freaking clue as to what to change. Sweet. at least you want to. 1 thing at a time. it has been 15- years in the making? It may take 15 months to get some progress. Shrug. you are going to do 180's. lovingly detach, so that you dont feel disrespect and resentment. GAL. ANSWER more of my questions or better yet all of them. I am more obstinate then you.
Yes, my goal is to have a passionate marriage. Good. That is a decision at least.
In my terms, it is the ONLY marriage that is successful. The problem is that passion must be a two way street, which in effect makes desire have to be a two way street. Has any ND ever achieved a PM? Not sure that even in the book PM was there a case of this.
There is no --in your terms --you are in a relationship, not a monarchy. Stop this circular line of thinking, it bores me and just makes you appear NUTSO. She is not ND. I wont say that again. I had a extremely passionate marriage. It was not succesful.
One great part of being a man and the testosterone is we have persistance. Loads of it. we are the hunters, and fishers. oh yeah, you love your wife or you wouldn't still be there. I want a list of all the things you love about her. Before anything else.
Okay I am going to expand on what Gel is saying and put my 2 cents in.
To me what Gel said (For a 45 year old man, I am in pretty darn good shape and yes, I am decent looking.)
Doesn't come across very convincing to me. A convincing statement to me would be...Yes, I am an attractive man.
and what Blackfoot said
Isn't the goal to have a passionate marriage? I dont know. Is it your goal? Then say it with conviction and stop making it a question. You sound lost when you do that. Have a direction
Both of these comments have one thing in common. They do not end with the feeling of a positive statement. They both lack a passion and definitive air to them. Which leaves the speaker sounding like he lacks conviction in what he is saying. A more powerful usage of words that showed more conviction would have better suited CeMar in both statements it would have left no room for debate.
That being said. I myself liked CeMars response. I feel it to be honest and realistic. Modesty is not unmacho or does not take away from a persons masculinity at least to me. If he would have implied he was all that and a bag of chips with a six pack to boot. It would have fit more into my image of him in my minds eye. It would go more along with that IT IS MY WAY OR NOT GOOD ENOUGH stance he takes. So all in all I think his response was helpful to shed a different light on him.
I wish you the best of luck getting CeMar to open up...perhaps YOU will be successful. I like the fact that you aren't afraid to call things as you see them and speak your mind whether anyone likes it or not.
One thing I wanted to add when it comes to the confidence thing. Several years ago I dated a man who was definitely what wouldn't call a "Looker"...but this man had confidence just pouring out of him, he couldn't have been sexier to me if he'd tried. I know this will sound wierd but I once was trying to describe this mans "masculinity" since he seemed to just ooze with it.....here's how I described him to a friend of mine...."it's the like you have a pasture of mares and he's the stallion in the middle, looking like he owns everything around him."
I know that sounds corney...but it truly was in how this particular man held himself, it was how he looked at you, and the confidence with which he spoke. He wasn't crude, he wasn't crass, he wasn't condesending...but was very self-assured. On the looks scale I'd have probably called him a 6, but the rest easily made him a 9 to me.
Just thought I'd add that...I hope maybe it might clarify to some guys how women can view confidence.
Thanks GEL I completely know and understand what you are saying.
how this particular man held himself, it was how he looked at you , and the confidence with which he spoke
These points are so important. I have not made any mention of body language yet, maybe I should, because when you have true confidance it shows in the way you stand and walk and look around a room. Like I told OG Lou, to walk around like he is the owner of his house. Stand up straight, stick out your chest, be proud and confidant, None of the things you pointed out were how reasonable he talked to me and convinced me I should like him.
It is what I am trying to describe with concepts and words. I am trying to give the guys insight into a girls mind so they can be attractive from her perspectivem, not theirs. , and use there sitch to give specifics.
I really liked your illustration. This is exactly how I want Gangster to see himself, and look at everything around him. Being a mechanic in the army made him very analytical, but didnt help understand women.
It never fails when I am working with a guy and say something to him ,unfiltered and ungaurded and irritating to you girls that has you all come yelling and hollering. But it just proves my point how what I say, is transformed in your minds.
I think it is good exercise for you ladies too,
Maybe you will stop filtering your H's so much when he says something like - Where did you get those pants.-
Why did he say that? What did he mean? does he like them? do I look FAt? and you say out loud Do these pants make me look fat? and he is standing there thinking HUH?!?!?
LMAO. Of course if you do then I will lose a great source of amusment.
As far as getting CeMar to open up.... its his loss if he doesnt want to. I wont be dictated to and I wont offer my help to a man that wont get a grip on himself and simmer down. My recommendations of 180's to other guys I see around here wont work for him. My theories will... but he is so lost he wont understand how to apply them or where to start.
He has a lot of pain-- he and his wife would both like better. A woman is a emotional creature-- she wants to laugh and have fun and feel good with her husband, safe, and secure. She cant feel secure if he is the one attacking her. she doesnt sit around thinking- How can I make us miserable. But it is hard. Once you have attacked her or lost her trust she is even more skeptical. I know this and I still screwed up. Mens emotions run just as deep as a womans, and when things are really down we lash out from fear and insecurity too.
CeMar your wife is still there, availble with no OM entanglements. we can work with that.
(eyes rolling). I am coming sir. bow and scrape, bow and scrape. 