I suspect they are too. Dropping the rope is hard but neccessary.
interesting comments about game theory.
Quote: Mathematicians have actually directed US policy...our poker-based paradigms were no match for the Soviets ( who were more skilled at chess, a more moral game).
I assume you say chess is more moral because there is no subterfuge, and everything is out in the open. I prefer weiqi to either game, but have a hard time finding a partner.
I have done some superficial reading about this, I enjoy it can you point me towards any more about this?
"I prefer weiqi to either game, but have a hard time finding a partner." Don't play it myself, but have you tried this link? I tried one of the servers and it seemed to work. http://www.britgo.org/gopcres/playx.html
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
BF... Reading a biography of John von Neumann is a good place to start ( Globule, you will like this too---he is Hungarian). And while it's fun to distract, I'd like to get back to my original point, and that is, your W has given you an opening and it's up to you what do with it...not to win, but because your heart dictates it. And that's the soul searching you may still have to do. Now, in no way do I condone what your W has done, but who among us is without sin? And weren't the three of you were complicit in setting the conditions for the affair to occur? Love is not an easy thing to come by...just some thoughts before you drop the rope completely.
On my Bday weather D is finalized or not, its on like Donkey Kong. If its not finalized, its because she doesnt want to let go, not because she wants to work on things. My HD is coming back and I am going to take care of my emotional and physical needs. (yes I am rationalizing)
This has been going on since late april of last year with a short jan-early may respite. I have suppressed them completely during our seperations. If this is a mistake in someones opinion, pipe up with why, I will contemplate it.
Are you saying that she is not allowed to make mistakes and learn from them?
Of course not. I dont see that she has learned from that or that she will if I do anything other then wait for OM to be set aside. Thats the line of thinking she has been using on me, I did things wrong so she was moving on. OK. Second time I made a mistake with the verbal bashing and she 'didnt have to take that'. OK. I 'feel' she has demonstrated that I dont get to make mistakes. I will make more. She will run away, again? Ive basically said thats Ok if I take her back again, havent I?
I look at it logically, I can see why she does what she does I can see it thru my understanding of phsyc. Its not logical though to accomplish what she wants. Shrug I am ok with that too. I have overreacted in this crisis several times myself.
Haven't you ever fcuked up royally?
yes, again my verbal berating was one of these.
multiply that by a million and you will have an idea of her thinking I am aware that Pride was a huge contributor to this at the beginning of both instances and Shame, another type of pride is the principal one now. She cant imagine being around my family. FWIW, and as funny as it may sound she does have a really good moral sense, though it is not internalized cerebrally. Its one of the things I love about her.
She wants you back but cannot picture how she will get there. She doesn't know which steps to take This is almost a quote - she cant see how, doesnt know how...blah blah. The information is out there, she knows where it is. Acting a victim is not mature or healthy. I wont work with it this time.
can still 'get your goat'. If she can, she will know that there are feelings there for her and that she should proceed.
I havent responded at all the last several times. Is it a mistake on my part if I want to reconcile. possible. Its a risk I am willing to take to get the R I want. When she was calling every day she would try to get my goat often, with commenting on the D, I would just say Ok if that is what you want. Or once commenting on what she and OM did together, UHUH, knock that sh!t off. She did. I am not sarcastic or angry, I am nothing. More of the same I know.
last time she came over and I was here she cried and said 'I just want to move on.' OK. I know this was code. UH-UH. Not decoding. Of course the last two weeks have been the letters, emails, and texts, but no phone calls. (although I did turn it off and leave it at home last weekend.) I do not respond, she said she wants to move on, and has OM. If she contacts me saying OM is out, I will suspiciously begin the hard work. That is all I will work with. I am tired of being her handler, and treating her like a horse that needs blinders to get thru the fire. This has always been the case. She has destructive tendancies when she gets hurt, we both know it. If she takes my non response as me not loving her... then so be it. I take abandonment AND Fcuking OM as not loving me. Running away, wouldn't bug me so much. A one night stand wouldnt bug me very much either truth be told. I have dropped the rope. If she comes back, I will take it as wanting me.
don't find it disrespecting yourself to keep the door open for reconciliation. In fact, I find that the harder road to travel. Do you know how easy it is to divorce?
Completely agree with all of this. But my comment of reconciling was AFTER the divorce is finished. If she gets her act together before then, not likely, because I have given her nothing to work with since there is OM and she is not going to let go without knowing there is something, I will do the 'right' thing, and be glad that we both have taken that harder road.
you keep slyly mentioning the "control" aspect of your personality. As a woman, I'm telling you firsthand that this is a MAJOR portion of why your ex went elsewhere.
I havent been sly about it, Ive owned up to it and was trying to work on it. actually my resentment and anger that came out was a great opportunity for us to get past it. Her reaction just reinforces that I dont get to make mistakes. Again thats saying that my mistakes, being a man, justify her actions. The road to intimacy is filled with walls and potholes. Ill screw up again, she'll think from previous experience its ok to do this.
your control slips a little. Honestly, who gives a hoot. That's life!
agree again, Thats life, you overlook the other persons mistakes, focus on the good and work at things. not run away. For whatever reason my 'value' dropped low enough to make it ok to go elsewhere twice. Your H's hasnt, honestly LFL's H never did either, she just felt she had no choice. It may be the truth, it may be her temporary perception, but it is. M/F R's dont work without this male 'value' being in place. Thats biology. Getting past those sticking points requires, morals, commitment, or need.
In the end I think if we were to get back together after the divorce, when OM doesnt come thru, its not because I have that 'value' to her.
how did you respond to the letters? I think you should acknowledge them but stand with your boundary firmly in place
I didnt. There was nothing specifically asking for a response. They were statements or ended with why it won't/ can't work. Not going to argue, cheesless tunnel.
Ive been contemplating this, knowing I need to do something, give her something, but at the same time knowing she is going to try to flip it and all her anger and resentment is going to come out. Fine with that, know its the process, but mine doesnt get to and the injustice grates knowing OM is still around. In the meantime while I contemplate it the days and weeks slip by. I like very emotional women. Damnit. I think she is a good person that got placed in a situation that was more then she could handle, but hate her reactions to me when I make a mistake. Damnit. My head hurts again.
I have suppressed them completely during our seperations. If this is a mistake in someones opinion, pipe up with why, I will contemplate it. Two sides to this coin. I think you made the right choice because you needed that time to really focus on yourself and improve on those traits/behaviors that needed some tweaking. You're also a very analytical person with an assertive edge. That's hot! Blackfoot and will serve you well with the ladies, but you already know that. You don't need any ego stroking, I'll save that for Globule Anyways, your strategy, ironically, was similar to my H's during the seperation (and boy are you two opposites). He didn't post on a board like this but he has journals full of his thoughts that he processed everyday we were apart. Neither of you were chasing after OP and both admitted to having almost ND during the worst of that time. On the other side of the coin, (that would be my side lol), dating OP during your separation may have been a healthy distraction for you and as wrong as it is, would have maybe "settled the score" so to speak if you started really falling for someone during that time. One night stands wouldn't have given you any pleasure because I can tell just from your posts that you are seeking EC just like the rest of us. IF you couldn't have it with your W, you may have been able to find it with someone else but then where would you be now? Not possibly working things out with W. Once again, two sides to that. You would not be going through this turmoil anymore (which would be good). But I don't think you have any peace with the whole W situation yet. So getting into a new R would have blown up in your face sooner or later. Just like it WILL with your W and the jerk. I did things wrong so she was moving on. OK. Second time I made a mistake with the verbal bashing and she 'didnt have to take that'. OK. I 'feel' she has demonstrated that I dont get to make mistakes. I will make more. She will run away, again? Ive basically said thats Ok if I take her back again, havent I? Has she been able to see any REAL changes in you? No. Not sure what you did wrong (from her perspective) to leave in the first place. Have you stated that? As the the second time, your emotions got the best of you. I know you hate that but I think that is WHO YOU ARE Blackfoot and that's ok. The verbal bashing is not ok but the emotionality is. Don't supress it! I was surprised how vulnerable you sound here: I 'feel' she has demonstrated that I dont get to make mistakes. I will make more. She will run away, again? Ive basically said thats Ok if I take her back again, havent I? I must be a total sucker for emotional men because I just want to hug you through the screen. Plus, that's not always the way you present your self so it's that dichotomy (bad boy vs sensitive boy) that gets me everytime! You listening Globule, take notes. Blackfoot, your W needs to see an attractive balance between those 2 sides for her to want to come back. Right now, you are too shut-down to let her get close. Ignoring her obvious cries for "the sensitive you" through the letters and such. Lying in your bed while your not there! This girl is so in love with you still!! Don't be a dummy! Talk to her. Take a leap of faith (did I just say that?). Pride was a huge contributor to this at the beginning of both instances and Shame, another type of pride is the principal one now. She cant imagine being around my family. FWIW, and as funny as it may sound she does have a really good moral sense, Not surprised at all. H had to really suck it up when we got back together and went in front of the family again. He felt horrid but he did it because he knew there was no way to avoid it. In a sense, it is very courageous. You need to help your W see that you support her with the family issue though. Have you? Probably not since you haven't talked to her. This is almost a quote - she cant see how, doesnt know how...blah blah Exactly. She wants you to help her!! Acting a victim is not mature or healthy. I wont work with it this time. Was that directed at her or you? I havent responded at all the last several times. Is it a mistake on my part if I want to reconcile. possible YES!! It's not whether or not to talk to her it's HOW to talk to her. You know intellectually what you need to do. Put some of it into practice. Not decoding How's that working out for ya? letters, emails, and texts, but no phone calls No kidding. Because she wants YOU to be the one the reach out to her, not have her call and feel like you are forced to talk to her. Come on Blackfoot, you know this sh*t! (Gettin punchy ) If she contacts me saying OM is out, I will suspiciously begin the hard work. That is all I will work with Then you will lose her. I know it's not the same thing, but my H knew I was still dating when we first started talking about reconciling. He knew if he wanted me back we had to ease into it. Your W wants to ease into it too is my guess. Sure that sucks, but do what works. If she comes back, I will take it as wanting me. That is a way to simplistic solution for such a complex situation. If she gets her act together before then, not likely, because I have given her nothing to work with Yep. I will do the 'right' thing Would you rather be happy or right? The road to intimacy is filled with walls and potholes. Ill screw up again, she'll think from previous experience its ok to do this Another very sensitive/vulnerable statement from Blackfoot. Damn right you'll screw up again. Are you are going to live in fear then? That doesn't sound like the Blackfoot I know. If you fix the M, you will not have to live in fear of her leaving. Or are you saying YOU are not fixable? Hmm... Thats life, you overlook the other persons mistakes, focus on the good and work at things Oh really. Are you overlooking her mistakes, and more importantly, forgiving yourself for your own mistakes. I think you are sabotaging any chance at reconcilation not because of what SHE did but because you cannot live with the fact that YOU made these mistakes in the M and need to be punished for them. Divorce is your punishment and you will just "start fresh" with a new person and hopefully not make those mistakes again. That last part is good but I think under your strong exterior you are very sensitive and feel like you failed: her, yourself, and the M. It's unacceptable to you. Fro what you stated at the end of your post, your biggest want in life I'm guessing is to be needed/valued. Your a helper. Just look at all the help you give on this board. Ive been contemplating this, knowing I need to do something, give her something See, it's IN you to reach out to her and you are fighting with all your might against your nature. I like very emotional women Maybe because they display traits you wish you could "let fly" in yourself, but as a man, need to reign in, project that manly strong image. I think she is a good person that got placed in a situation that was more then she could handle, but hate her reactions to me when I make a mistake. Tell her just that.
A little (lot) of boardside analysis. That will be $100.00 please.
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