I appreciate that you want things to work out for me. In fact you are the only woman I know that has encouraged me to try again.
I may want to, but I cannot take all the responsibility. No relationship can live that way. I may shout I dont believe in murder, but if the guy pulls the trigger I am still dead. As for me wanting a divorce, I am not very normal... I try to do what is good for me and then want it, accept it. You can conjure up any emotion by remembers a memory that had it, I may as well conjure up the ones I want.
my sitch is not yours, She is a WAS twice She is a affarie twice she filed for divorce twice, we have no kids the plans we had for family, and career, are gone, tossed aside by me to fight for us, (dumb I know, but i had to get myself away from him, I was dangerously close to loseing control of my anger. only have twice so far in my life for justifiable reasons, but it is not pretty)and by her for someone else.
I told her I would not do it the same way this time around, meaning as long as they are in contact. I did last time. Even your husband set that clear boundary to you.
She can see future possibilities with both of us. This is not about her just getting over feeling for OM that she had fling with. Her attraction to me is greater, I know this becasue she constantly comes back, and he has done no 'love busters' to her, and she really does not want a divorce, just to escape her pain, but my insecurity is her and him. She will continue to see if it is there, and when I react to it, she is my wife after all, will go back to him. She has to be completely done with him for her own reasons, but my vision of a marriage is not second place, so once D is finallized, I will never have contact with her again. In fact I am moving. again.
If anyone wishes to offer me reasons why I should, or where my thinking is off, or how this is being driven by my ego, I will gladly hear them.
Other wise this endless ping pong will continue, he will not set down the paddle as he continue to play the game with other wives still. Not fair to me, and terrible for her. Would she stop if we have kids? Not a chance I am willing to take, and not a woman I want to have kids with.
If you know the story of Samson and Delilah, you know she asked him four times what the secret of his strength was. She betrayed him three times with no repurcussions. He may have been strong but he wasnt very smart.
Thanks for the thoughful response to my questions. I'm assuming you have no contact with your friend at this point. That must be twice as painful losing not only your wife but your buddy. Sucks. I keep telling myself that if the kids weren't involved I would go thru with the divorce. I may be talking out my ass, however. You do not have kids and I understand you would not want to have them with her considering the pain she has caused. In that sense, you are lucky. You are obviously a very attractive man and will certainly find a woman who will give you want you want in the future. Just like you have said to me, Blackfoot,....
What were YOUR love busters? What was missing in the R that contributed to her decision to look elsewhere?
Is it possible that these things were never fixed the first time and, hence, she never really re-committed to the R? And as soon as she caught wind of them, bam, she was out the door again.
Don't misunderstand that I am condoning what she is doing or has done. I think it's pathetic, actually.
But in order for YOU to move on and have happiness in the future, you will have to identify what went wrong so that you can fix things from your end and have no more repeats, kwim.
Did she ever tell you clearly what she wanted and needed from the R? How good of a job did you do in providing those things?
This is not the first R I've been in where I am the HD woman. So I believe I know a thing or two about attracting the same type of shtuff, time and again. Hate to see you go through this again. But in order to avoid it, you gotta do the work the first time around.
I listed in a previous post why she fell in love with him, and I am aware of how we are attracted to the same types, repeat mistakes untill we fix them, etc, but I sure appreciate you bringing it up to help me-- warn me. Thanks HP. Thats one of the many reasons why I wanted to work on it. Thats why I dont bang from R to R.
She never complained of any LB's, during our marriage, and during our 4 months back together when we looked at MB, she said that none of those was a prob before affair. I had never seen MB before the Affair but because of other influences and practices in my life, I do pretty good at eliminating them. Still looking at myself I would say Independant Behaivior needs to be worked on, and after LFL's post, my confidance could be damaging by ignoring her insecurities, and not feeling as if she has enough power in the R, thus an annoying habit. Need to find me a more confidant woman next time. J/K.
--Side bar to LFL, since finding our your H is a phsycologist, his apparent lack of anger, resentment, over your OR is perfectly understandable to me. Your perception of him being emotionally indifferant, I would see as his efforts towards control. as guys we have to show emotions for a women to be connected to us, but be in control of them for a women to feel secure. ( I will never forget OG LOU's tossing dinner as a perfect example of this,) IT is a freaking hard line, that you ladies want us to walk.!!
Men learn quick that reacting to a woman is the wrong tactic, so we go the other way and show none. Most do it by stuffing them, untill they overwhelm. When they finaly build up to where we cant CONTROL them and they overwhelm us, we withdraw, or lash out and both instances cause the same reaction in you. "That INSENSITIVE JERK!! LOL
Back to independant behaivior, I always discussed future plans with her, but I mentioned before she always went along with my decisions. That makes her sound weak minded which she wasnt at all, she is a succesful white collar woman with a lot of responsibility, but she just .....trusted me.
There were a couple of situations in the week before she and OM declared their feelings-- one each where I did something and I said something that exacerbated her insecurities. we have both agreed during the reconciliation, that she did it because of pride and was retaliating at me for those two instances..... then after the verbalization, there was a 6 week period where she was in this loop and couldnt figure out why this happened, why she felt this way, where those feeeling were coming from, etc.
The feelings were too much and she IM'ed him, I got upset and the card house fell down. THIS is my weekness, but it only exists within marriage. I have been in Rs before and had the woman say 'I am interestd in this guy' or 'I told someone I like them' or the most extreme 'I kissed OM last night.' My reaction is always the same, "you should go out with him", or "Cool". No discussion and no more physical, emotional contact untill they figure out their sh!t. The reaction was always the same. Its only when you get whiney, needey, angry, disrespectful etc, that the justifications and rationalizing start flying.
Under this context (marriage)I couldnt do it. I wasnt allowed to walk away due to my beliefs,even though she was disrespecting my core boundaries and our stated values and I wasnt allowed to make demands by simple dyad dynamics.
Lessons learned for me. I wont ever bring someone else in that tight again, obviously. I should have know better anyways.
I know where I messed up the reconciliation. My Love Busting behaivior was during the reconciliation, and I have stated I couldn't stand how I behaved during this time. 8 months of emotional stuffing was more then I could handle, I guess. I didnt make use of anyplace to vent.
I wish CSW would drop by once in a while and vent and let us know how he is doing. There is going to be ups and downs. she stated 'I dont have to take that.', in reference to her b-day, (my LB'ing, the second seperation). She is completely correct, but her lack of understanding and unforgiveness after I 'took' her 8 month affair says loads. It led me to DB and here and learning more about myself and meeting some people who make me laugh and have given me some fantastic insights.
Chrissy, You asked about a 11th hour scenario. Thats pretty much what happened last time. I don't see it happening without my initiation.
My statemet of loving her, is my memories of her, and how I remember us. I dont have any anger, or resentment.I havent heard from her for a month. I feel terrible for her. I know I will be ok, and always reach my goals. We have both lost a lot.
Quote: --Side bar to LFL, since finding our your H is a phsycologist, his apparent lack of anger, resentment, over your OR is perfectly understandable to me. Your perception of him being emotionally indifferant, I would see as his efforts towards control. as guys we have to show emotions for a women to be connected to us, but be in control of them for a women to feel secure. ( I will never forget OG LOU's tossing dinner as a perfect example of this,) IT is a freaking hard line, that you ladies want us to walk.!!
Great points Blackfoot. It is all about control for H. Both of us know where this stems from. His mother is a real battle-ax and you were NOT allowed to express feelings in his household growing up, at least not negative feelings. And if you went directly against what she said, prepare for WWIII.
I'm sure his father left his mother for the same reason. She gave everyone in that household the smackdown (no physical violence, but torturous silences and guilt trips). The funny thing is she comes off sweet as pie to the "outside" world but within the family everyone walks on eggshells around her.
So, this was his main female role model growing up. He learned quickly to surpress feelings with women and maintain control. And here we are today. Old habits die hard, even for a psychologist who really knows better.
I'm the youngest of six kids. My family was the opposite of H. Loud and boisterous. His was always quiet and reserved. He's a WASP to the core. Also the oldest child (of 2). I guess opposites do attract.
I always find people's family history fascinating. I'd like to hear more about your own family Blackfoot. (If you are willing to share). Do you think yours "clashed" in any way with W family. I remember you saying you hated living with them. In-law problems can be a huge problem in a M. Just curious.
Quote: IT is a freaking hard line, that you ladies want us to walk.!!
Men learn quick that reacting to a woman is the wrong tactic, so we go the other way and show none. Most do it by stuffing them, untill they overwhelm. When they finaly build up to where we cant CONTROL them and they overwhelm us, we withdraw, or lash out and both instances cause the same reaction in you. "That INSENSITIVE JERK!!
Well spoken BF, especially when some (not all) women say they want men who talk, but when we do, they say things like, "that is not fair" "that is insensative" or make comments like "MEN".
my family background.... My mom and dad divorced sometime around my birth.... I have a handful of memories of him, serendipitously ran into him last when I was 14. My family moved out of state when I was 16. When I was married and close to starting a family (my x and I had planned on starting last Feb, mice and men eh?) I thought about him quite a bit. Before that and now, basically never. my mom remarried when I was 5, I am the oldest of 4 of a rural midwestern family, untill I was 16. I never disliked my stepdad, but as a kid didnt understand why my mom married him. My family was affectionate, active, religious, close to extended family, pretty apple pie. I would say my mom was smarter and controlled most everything. She wasnt and isnt domineering, my stepdad just thought that too and let her handle most things. I viewed myself as a outsider, I wansn't ever treated that way, but they were a 'real' family and it only took one look to see I was not his son. My family was completely leave-it-to-beaver then IMO, but I always couldnt wait till I was old enough to leave and be on my own. When I was 21 my mom and stepdad had a NASTY divorce, my sis and two brothers were wrecked by it. I was living in Alaska at the time and actually asked my mom to send them to live with me. I made a couple trips to see them during, it was horrible to be in for those short periods, and I was independant and could leave.
I hated living with my wifes family because of pride, lived on my own since I was 17. Living together like that was completely normal to them, we got along well while we were there, they treat me (still)as a son, and any difficulties were because she had the tough role, their daughter, my wife. They had a lot of expectations of her, had opinions on how a wife should act. I would stick up for her. No serious arguments, just more along the lines of -Bah, kids. Oh yeah, except moving out of state, they were adamantly against that. Moving to another country was ok but taking THEIR daughter away wasn't. They are first generation immigrants, old school, and catholic, and she was raised 2nd of two, (older bro) basically like a princess,(maids, chauffers, cooks,etc.) untill they came here. They are mortified at the divorce, still treat me like a son when given the chance.
We were getting ready to move out of state, boxing up our place and looking for a place to lease month to month, untill she finished the anticipated three months of school. she brought up staying with her parents as a option, had already talked to them about it, and when I didnt like the idea, told me I was not considering that because of feelings not logic.
She was right, won that one, and I have since learned the lesson several times that logic isnt always the best choice.
Of course during the affair, it was one of the things I did wrong, 'making her' live with her parents and not 'taking care of her'. Asked her during the reconciliation why she said that, her reply was 'dunno, dont want to talk about it.' LOVE IT. not.
HP You have asked about my current ND. I stated somewhere else when the affair started I was ND for 2 months, going from ML, or MB every day since I was a teen, that was a shocker. I have gone for years without MB, because our SL was so active. My drive was back to normal during the reconciliation, but in the past few months since the second seperation I am extremely LD for me, practically ND. I MB maybe twice a month. Its a relief to not have this frustrating need since I wont do anything about it right now, but in the back of my mind is a hint of a worry. I went to a strip club with a coed group of friends last week, and was suprised I had no hint of arousal. I am going to start dating again, once D is finalized, I'll worry about it then if nothing changes.
I feel like my posts run on and on. Since my favorite subject is NOT me, I try to keep things brief and too the point. Not vague or cloaked. I am happy to truthfully answer any question, as we are all here to get insights.
to all,
I will bust your chops, when you behave nutso IMO, expect the same, and will offer support, and encouragement when needed. We are all here to change the only thing we can, ourselves, its easier to do when someone points out what (they think of course) needs changin.
Blackie, There is nothing wrong with your libido. You are going through one of the most depressing things a person can go through and your feelings are perfectly understandable.
I was just messin with ya.
I secretly did find it interesting that a boner fide HD guy goes through periods of ND, but that's all. I hope your mind and body start to level out soon. It's always a disconcerting feeling to have your body acting like a totally different person, than what you have known your whole life. I felt like this during pregnancy, when my hormones would go into an even higher overdrive. Once a day was not enough and I always sorta weirded myself out.
Quote: I have a lot of residual emotion for her. Logically she has no value to me anymore, i.e. trust, loyalty, honesty. Spiritually, scripturally, and in a few days legally, she left in all ways, and I am a free man. I am OK with moving on. If she stops the divorce, and wants to reconcile in the 11th hour, which doesnt seem unlikely now after last night, I am going to be PISSSED. I dont call her, dont email her, dont promise ANY changes, and apologized for my uncalled for outburst months ago when it happened.
I found this on another thread Blackfoot and wanted to comment on it on your own thread. I don't blame you for having that PISSED feeling about her calling in the 11th hour. It sounds like she wants to reconcile, maybe? I can relate to those feelings myself. H came back into the picture just when I was finally moving on and feeling pretty good without him. I was pissed off, how could he fuc* with my head? Is he serious? Why now? etc BUT, I am so glad that we did. It took a while to really embrace him again but I feel like we are there now. Maybe you can get there with your ex. I know you said "logically" you have no reason to get back together with her but neither did I really (other than the kids). Trust was broken. I felt like he betrayed me. Never thought we could make an honest effort at reconciliation. I was wrong. I've mentioned on another thread about trust, that it can actually be damaging to a M when the couple gets lazy. They never think the other one will leave them so they can get away with murder within the R and the other person will take it. If that does not lead to a broken M it will definitely lead to an unhappy one. I think you and the ex could rebuild your trust in each other. Why not? You say you still love her. I'm sure she still loves you or she would not be reaching out to you now. You could have a totally new M on new terms. Fix your mistakes. Make it work. So, what do you think????????????
