just got home from hanging with my bar buddies. why is it that I know as soon as my divorce is finalized and I allow myself to be available that all these women that are everywhere and available to me now will simple vanish? my sitch doesnt belong on this forum... so I will be happy to delete it. I am not even interested in posting it as I am not looking for advice, or help any longer, but since there are a few here that have asked for it and I have put in my $.02 to a few others its only fair to let people know about me. Im going to try to keep it brief.
me 32 soon to be xW 29 no kids together 9 years divorce finalizes on my b-day next month. KARMA.
NOPkins, yeah I chose my handle because of a small part of my lineage. HP your use of blackie cracks me up everytime. I love it. I found this website back in June, ran across CSW thread, man of steel, you go dude. was impressed with NOPkins perfect to the T advice. My sitch had been going on for close to a year and we had just seperated for the second time. soooo My W ...XW and I decided years ago to move out of SO CAL when she graduated for a host of reasons. It ended up taking her 7 years. For the year prior to that we lived with her parents because at the time she supposedly only had 3 months of school left, and we didnt want to get a lease. I HATED HATED HATED IT. Her parents were great, but it irked me. Found out it was going to take more then three months ( did I mention a year after we got married she informed me that she had flunked out of school and didnt tell me because she was afraid I would leave her? I never would have I thought marriage was for life. its a recurring theme, her thinking I was going to leave her) I was a contractor my job then and now is in the top 5 most dangerous jobs... Ive had 3 out of the 5...career change when we moved was always part of the family plan. Got a dream job in the movie industry during that time(living with her parents). I was working 12-18 hours a day not including commute (if I didnt sleep in my office). worked 98 hours one week and another time worked 15 days straight. She was working full time and going to school full time. I almost had a affair with my PA(production assistant). My job was very intense, I was responsible for a lot of peoples lives, first to arrive and last to leave and my PA's job was to take care of everything I needed. She excelled at it and loved it. She was at my beck and call every day we worked. Did I mention she was SMOKING HOT? One night she said to me after a 16 hour day 'wanna go get some drinks?' and I actually considered it. Thats nuts. I should have been running home to my WIFE to spend a few minutes with her. After a long delay I answered 'I can't do that I know where it leads.' two weeks later I walked out of my office shower and she is standing there. She looked at me... I looked at her. if you know what I am talking about, fine, if not...Shrug. After that I cut off all non essential conversation with her. Imagine not speaking to your secretary. I knew what happened. I studied biological psychology, physiological psychology, neurology, evolutionary biology, still it was damn hard to fight the attraction. I even started backward rationalizing. frigging triune brain theory is happening to ME!! But I did fight it. Job finished, took my wife to Bahamas and then Alaska.wife graduated.
Moved out of state my best friend and best man at my wedding was living with some other friends and we moved in together. Wife came a couple months later, after she got an awesome job. I continued with my contracting while looking for work in my desired career. I became very depressed, unable to find it after several months.( read lost my confidance-self esteem. Even though I know confidance is the BEST aphrodisiac for women.) It wasnt about money, I made in 15 days that year what she makes in half a year. It was about me failing. I felt like I was failing us. She starts to believe it. She tried everything. helping me look for work. helping me with my resume. All I wanted to hear from her was 'don't worry we will get thru this.'
So my best friend starts going after my wife. did I mention his nickname to his friends there is marriage wrecker? thats no joke and no typo. apparently he got burned by a married girl real bad. he didnt know she was married untill she dumped him. He got the nick name after my wedding.
so now He has this thing for married women. he runs mad game on them. He wonders if they will throw away their lives because of their "feelings" for him. to quote him "I am doing them(the husbands) a favor by exposing that she is a back-stabbing whore."
I ran across a thread here where someone else mentioned something about this dynamic. It must be a very painful place to come from thinking ill of people and having it reinforced by your own actions.
What would you men reading this do if you knew this about him and saw it happening?
Yeah. well I did nothing. nothing. I thought we were better then that. stronger then that. everyone who knew us thought we had this 'perfect relationship'. I was arrogant. No I did worse then nothing. I included him in everything extracurricular we did, she even complained about it, and there were a lot of intense experiences included in that. New things, exciting things, experiences that create vivid indelible memories. For whatever reason he got credited with them all.
So I had to go out of town for work, she tells me on the phone that she had told our house guest, best man from our wedding that she loved him 'but nothing could ever happen cause she was married to me.' Sound familiar. she couldnt have said it any better if she had read the script.
I came home and kicked him the F^CK OUT. She agreed to never see him or talk to him again. Then a miracle. I got our dream job. I called her on the way home from the interview and she said "oh"
For 6 weeks we barely spoke, I wasn't angry I was WATCHING. SCRUTINIZING. WAITING. we would wake up in the middle of the night and just look at each other. every night. I could see it in her head going round and round and round "why did this happen? how did this happen?" her confusion and sadness and desperation was painful to watch. She contacted him two days after our first counseling session. I threw out our wedding pictures, cancelled our counseling, and threw away the book given us by the counselor. DB by michelle. called her parents, they talked to her, and after the phone call, after 6 weeks of not having a reason why it happend, out of nowhere she says it was because she cant see a future with me. My acheivement of getting our dream job is 'too little, too late.' I just blinked and thought oh boy. here it comes. and it did. the backwards rationalizing. the rewriting history. the accusations of why I was a bad husband for the past 7 years. she went over to see him. I packed all my stuff. when she came home, I said I am going back to SO CAL. if you want to come I will wait two weeks so you can give work notice. if not I am leaving tomorrow. I was still under probation and didnt give a flying F about my job. It had been for us. If there was no us then back to my mad money live dangerous jobs.
I actually lost my mind one day. We wouldn't make it if we stayed there, cause I could see she couldnt stay away, and we wouldnt make it if we went back cause I would be back to not having a family the way we planned and wanted. my mind cracked wide open. I wandered around in the rain talking to myself and gesticulating wildly like some maniac transient. Lost my shoes in the mud somewhere. mr rock solid never loses his cool went WACKO. what an experience.
We came back two weeks later and she went to live with her parents, she filed for divorce, while having her long distance affair with him. I went dark. did nothing but work. except date a couple girls. both ended after I turned down(rejected) their initiatives to take it to physical level. All of our hard work, plans and careers for 8 years were gone. I had to agree our future was gone. gone the day I quit our dream job and moved back here.
found marriage builders, saw things I had done wrong. She contacted me and I had always known that they would never work long term. Part of his strategy in going after her was copying my idiosyncracies that she liked. I knew he was dating other women, (mutual friends kept me in the loop but wouldn't talk to her. they thought I was better off without the 'cheating whore' and stuck by their bros before hoes mentality.) and when our divorce was finalized he would get bored. (did I mention I thought she was the most amazing woman I ever met. SMART as hell. quick wit. didnt take my sh!t. Great sense of humor. Adventurous, very very very important to me. not the hottest, but hot enough. and she got hotter every year I loved her more. she looked to me for everything. even worshipped me a little to much. It was flattering, but scary. she never asked why I did anything just went along with it. the only thing that shocked my friends and family more then me getting married was her having an affair and us getting a divorce.) Sucked it up and used every technique I know and played 'the game'. I told her if she slept with him to tell me cause I would never want to touch her again. We dont have kids to help me rationalize. after 3 months of talking She came over wanted to get back together.... but.... they had gotten physical. oral. it was desperately important to her that she be completely honest. phrases and terms she used I think she was reading marriage builders too.
I said ok.
and then we had a terrible, terrible 4 months back togther. other then our trip to Honduras to 'reconnect'. competing with best man from our wedding took a huge emotioanl toll on me. if she brought up the past I brought up the past. if she pointed a finger I brought out the hammer and nailed her to the floor. We had sex maybe 1x a week, (hmm I wonder why) and only when she initiated. I got rejected every time I did. and when we did she would cry afterwards. This is compared to pre affair 5 to 8x a week even when I was in the movie biz and I was never home except to sleep. We did it anytime, anywhere, all the time everywhere for 8 years. This new dynamic was slightly disconcerting to me. There was no emotional component to it. we may as well have just blown our noses on each other.
For whatever reason the two weeks prior to her B-day everything started clicking. we were getting along, we were both really trying to take care of the other. no fighting. actually it was because I wouldnt allow it anymore. I would just look at her say STOP, and we woudl change the subject. that was a first except for the vacation. I could feel it. we were connecting. she was BACK. Her b day we had a quick spat and reconcilitation. Went out. Had a GREAT time. Came home started talking about our future. Went to bed I initiated, got rejected. stewed for about 30 minutes. said 'well since we have a relationship where if the other doenst take care of our needs- we go elsewhere- I am going to the strip club'. got up got dressed left.
Can you say entitlement and resentment?
fought on the phone. came home.... no I didnt go..... and proceeded to rip her a new one very quietly. I dont yell. I have never verbally attacked anyone like that ever. For 4 hours. anybody ever read James chapter 3? oops.
Next day she got up packed all her things and left. Filed for divorce agian. I apologized. profusely. no begging, no pleading, just apologized.
I found this site. slapped self repeatedly. she contacted me two months ago. found out she has been back in contact with OM. talked to her and it was like we were right back at square one. she was wanting me to initiate again but I was angry. he is a hooker using coke head. she went back to him? after I told her that. after we had got back together? fine. so I started dating. A LOT. A LOT. only way I know how to flush out those withdrawal chemicals is with new relationship chemicals.
5 weeks ago bought motorcycle, got in wreck, broke scapula, started reading here again. she contacted again, was calling every day emailing often she wanted to get back together. but there was no taking of responsibility. crying constantly. she has been in a terrible depression ever since this started. I tried to get her on meds several times thru this whole thing. we were talking again. I found out from mutual friends OM had come out here. told her I heard and assumed the worst, wasnt going to be tricked and seduced again. she said yes you are right. it was the worst experience of her life, she completely regrets it, it sucked, she cried and cried afterwards,yada yada. I can ask her anything I want, she will be completely honest with me. Starts blaming me again, pointing finger, boring BTDT. Complete victim mentality, no accepting responsibility. I said Sorry. good luck. two weeks ago. I know she wants me to fix things, initiate, show her she can trust me that I won't verbally abuse her again that we have a future. Not a chance.
I have mentioned I was a bartender. A good portion of that was when we first got together. I have had temptation thrown at me, on me, over and over and over again. I never cheated on her. I tested myself. No one deserves that kind of betrayal. If your mate sucks that bad then leave them.
I am not holding a grudge, or taking a moral high ground. I am no saint. She filed for divorce and was free to do whatever she wanted after that. I dont blame her. its her life to do what she wants with. She has her own road to travel now to emotional maturity. I truly feel sorry for her. I have forgiven her and love her still. I don't want to have children with someone who thinks an affair is a solution to a relationship. The conflict avoidance. She said in our last conversation that she respects me for my moral aptitude, and integrity. It meant so much to me. I wish she had the same.
ladies and germs I eagerly await your comments. I really respect the ones I see here on the forum because they have such a hard situation...to discuss, to resolve, and yet they and there spouse are still in there trying. Some of you have been thru life experiences I can't even imagine and the way I see you ladies supporting and encouraging each other is ...wow. True friends tell you the truth and point out the right path to take even if its narrow and hard. those friends are rare.
Be harsh. Be honest. Be cold as ice.
There is nothing an anonymous person who I have never met can say that will castigate me worse then I have already done to myself for the sweet perfection that I lost (because I am the man and ultimately responsible for the tremendous loss that this relationship means in my life and beliefs.) I always take responsibility.
there are typos and punctuation errors deal with em I didnt want to do this.
blackfoot. Good job posting your story. Its the story that counts and the lessons you and others can learn from the experience that counts. Sorry you had to lose the love of your life in the process.
Thanks for sharing your story. The first impression I had was "Thankfully they don't have kids." It really complicates things. Much easier to walk away when little lives aren't at stake. When you stated you "almost" had an affair with your production assistant, are you using the Clinton definition of sex (strictly intercourse), because it seems like you did have an emotional affair, no? I must say you come across fairly cocky in your post(s) and I'm sure that your xW felt that as well. I found your comment "not the hottest, but hot enough" about her very interesting. Maybe you didn't mean anything by that but if I heard my H describe me that way I would take offense. Maybe she turned to OM because she always felt "hot" with him? Just thinking, but could be way off base. You also come across as very thoughtful and intelligent. That is very attractive. I'm sure those are some of the things she loved about you. Unfortunatly, when you tried to get back together your macho side won out over your thoughtful/intelligent side. You did just about everything wrong at that point (verbally abusive, etc). She seemed to be reaching out to you at several points and you blew it. I'm not saying I would have done any different and that is why I am so hesitent to embrace my own H because he seems to be handling the whole OM situation a little too well if you know what I mean. Still, I think you and xW clearly have a very passionate history and there is a lot to build on there. It is not unheard of for people to get remarried after D. I have enjoyed your insights on this board and hope you keep posting.
Quote: She seemed to be reaching out to you at several points and you blew it.
I think he was reaching out to her too and she blew it. What do you think?????
LFL, as a man that has experienced several bitchy remarks from my W/BB when trying to keep things in the rational and polite zone, it is next ot impossible not to to blow it.
Some women say they want strong men and when we are strong we are called mean or controlling. If we are gentle, we are called wimps. We lose either way. Just my opinion.
I was not there to see what Blackfoot did or did not do so am not defending him or being critical.
Quote: It is not unheard of for people to get remarried after D.
Good point LFL, if that is something Mr/XMs blackfoot want to do. OM has to be long gone.
blackfoot, any connection to a Montana tribe? Also, when I read your first post it reminded me of NOPkins. Any connections there?
Blackfoot, thanks for sharing your story. You're right that his forum is unusual in the level of intelligence here, the heartfelt emotional support everyone gives each other, and the tough discussions that we have.
Re LFL's comment... I didn't find your attitude "cocky," but OTOH I don't mind a guy being cocky as long as he has something to be cocky ABOUT.
And Lou had a point with this comment
Quote: Some women say they want strong men and when we are strong we are called mean or controlling. If we are gentle, we are called wimps.
The drop in a guy's self-esteem-- and the falling dominoes caused by that-- when the job stuff is not going right is something that I think women do not understand-- I know I don't. So it's good that you bring it up and keep reminding us. There was a long discussion of it on another thread yesterday that was very valuable.
Thanks for posting your sitch on here. It does help us understand your perspectives a bit better when you post
Out of curiosity...did your XW ever tell you why she turned to OM? Or did I miss that in your post? Did she tell you what she was lacking in your M, or do you feel she lost respect for you during your what I'll call ... down-time?
Great story, Footie. (I'm not as cute as HP, but I like the sound of "Footie" better. Kind of like those pajamas my DD4 wears in Winter).
No advice here. Sounds like you (and her) have been through the wringer. You may not be in a SSM, but I hope you keep on posting here. I had to look up two things in your post (triune brain and the James chapter three) and I like that intellectual stimulation.
LIL - I like cocky/macho guys too. I also like gentle, thoughtful, intelligent guys. That's my problem. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't win with me I guess.
In the words of Sally (from When Harry Met Sally): "I'M DIFFICULT."
Lou - I'm not sure if she blew it or not. I'm only hearing his side of the story. From his side, he did not handle the attempted reconciliation in any way that would make her WANT to go back to him. Sure, she messed up having the A. But wasn't he trying to "win her back" at that point? He was not displaying too many Divorce Busting techniques at that point. You also stated it is next to impossible to not "blow it" when W/BB is being bitchy. Hmm... Don't men have control over any of their emotions? (that was sarcastic). I'm just saying the most likely, easiest, cathartic response (bitching back, etc) is not necessarily the most effective response. Certainly not when trying to reconcile.
Quote: I'm just saying the most likely, easiest, cathartic response (bitching back, etc) is not necessarily the most effective response. Certainly not when trying to reconcile.
It used to be if I brought up something, all to often the reply was " do you want a Divorce?" She never wanted to talk about the issue. Question: If BB is crabby 90% of the time, am I supposed to be Mr nice and controled 90% of the time? I tried that and got little respect.
Quote: Don't men have control over any of their emotions?
When I do, sometimes I am called a "wooden indian" (someone who does not talk or show motions).
I guess I stuffed things down too much and had blow ups because of trying to smooth things out. I am betting better at bringing up issues without letting them go so long and there are more controlled talks.
Pleast post any replies on my thread. I don't want to dilute Blackfoots thread with my issues.
LFL, I admire you for dumping the OM and working on your M.
