Hey all, thanks for the insights on the email sitch. i've been busy and havent posted for ages on my thread, thought I'd take time to jot down a bit.
I did discuss the emails with H...he agreed that it was not in his best interest that he respond to her as he did, however he did clarify his reactiveness. Evidently this has been a huge issue with monsters job performance, that she does not respond in a timely fashion to clients needs, and a number of the clinicians have filed grievances against her for just such, evidently her supervisor has a huge file of of complaints against her (now why they don't just get rid of her I'll never know)...and h said he really does feel that his clients are getting the short end of the stick because of personal stuff. He did say she had emailed him to apologize...not good in my book, NO CONTACT MEANS NONE. but, the fact is that at this point we all have jobs at the same place, so it's hard avoid completly.
Wednesday morning, I was over in the main building for a meeting, h was across the hall from the meeting room waiting for the coworker to be ready to leave with him for the out of town office, we exchanged brief greetings and pleasantries and I walked on into the break room to get some coffee before the meeting, and up the hall comes monster. Past H...I was coming out the door of the breakroom, as another (male) coworker was coming in the door with a BIG box of doughnuts...and hot on his tail, with her feet literally almost going under his, comes monster, just about knocked me into the wall. I just gave her a disgusted look and continued on. Funny thing was the Director (my supervisor) had stopped beside the door as I was coming out and saw the whole thing, and said to monster "so what, are you chasing the doughnut man now?" I thought that was a pointed little dig, more pointed that monster knows, I'd guess.
Later that day I got an email from h saying something about the encounter, dont remember what, but then he said "sorry, I shouldnt tease you, I just find it ironic that the more we try to avoid someone, the more we run into her"...I mentioned monster running over the guy with the doughnuts, and H said "oh Yeah, she LOVES doughnuts, along with any other junk she can stuff in her mouth"...
So, sometimes H jokes about monster, maybe that is good, according to "not just friends" that is a good sign...
Also on Wednesday I had an email from H that the male co-worker in the out of town office is totally "smitten" and infatuated with the "new" female coworker who is going to be starting in that office. that he was really upset that she will be there some days when he wasnt. H commented that he was really worried that an A was real possible, and about how that would screw up the workings of the office so badly (uh, yes, H!). H said "I don't know what to do,I guess I'm going to have to have a talk with "the kids". How the hell did I get to be the wise old man in this stuff?" I emailed back that he got there by graduating from the school of hard knocks. The next day H mentioned that he had spoken to the male co-worker about it in the car on the way back, and the co-worker said "no, we're JUST FRIENDS"...H said he told him "I have a book you need to read". H has evidently been reading my copy of "Not Just Friends", which he claimed he needed to take to the office because he'd assigned it as homework for someone. himself? I wish. But I still think it's a good sign that he's approaching this subject like this with the coworker.
H has seemed a teeny bit more distant to me for the last 2 weeks, but he hasnt been feeling well, kind of an upset stomach, headachy type of bug, plus his back has been hurting, evidently he strained it lifting weights. I tend to get anxious and clingy when he backs off for any reason, which pushes him further away. So, I've been really working on controlling my anxiety, sometimes literally going back to biting my tongue and going into other rooms. h has apologized several times for being distant, told me that I have nothing to worry about, although saying that my anxiety does get to him at times, but he recognizes my efforts keep a damper on it, and appreciates it.
In the night Wednesday/Thursday early morning, I woke up to the sound of H going out of the bedroom, he went downstairs and was gone 1/2 hour (yes, I looked at the clock)...I became quite anxious, holding back tears, fought the urge to go downstairs looking for him. Then he came upstairs, into the bathroom off our bedroom, I heard him in the medicine cabinet. I pretended to be asleep. then he came into the bedroom, sounding kind of panicky, and asked me where the diarrhea medicine was, said he was sick and couldnt seem to find it. I got up and found it for him, he seemed to be REALLY not feeling well. So, I guess it was a case of "Itchy Butt Syndrome" as Ellie talks about. Points out to me how overly anxious I still am. It is just so hard.
We havent ml all week which is unusual, but besides H not feeling too well, we've both been tired and really busy at work, so I try not to stress on it. This morning H did say we'd have some "snuggle time" when I get home!!!!
Also this morning H was more "snuggly" and "mushy" than he has been for the past week, which was very nice. I find I crave this anymore, because for years i didnt get it! Anyway, he was holding me, I had my head on his shoulder, and I commented that sometimes I'm still overwhelmed by the thought of what my life would have been like without him. H said again that "you don't need to worry"...I told him, 'I'm not really worrying, just every now and then I get blown away by the thought".
Then h did an interesting thing. He turned the conversation to the phone bill ????????????...said that we had gotten a statement saying that this month we owed 21 cents. Then he went and got the phone bill and showed it to me. flipped through several of the pages. I didn't see it real closely, but did see that it said our "current usage" amount was 13.00, which is the standard flat fee. So, it would lead me to believe that H is no longer calling monster. He said a month ago that "you can look at the phone bill if you want to"...I said I didnt want to.
I had been thinking about asking to see it, actually, in my anxiety lately. was just thinking about that yesterday in fact. I've been thinking about what I need to help me with my anxiety, as suggested in "After the Affair"...it even mentions asking to see the phone bill.
I would very much like to think that H's showing me the phone bill was an effort on his part to reassure me. I'm certain he wouldnt be showing it to me if there was any incriminating evidence for me to see.
There is something that I know is weighing heavily on H's mind (and mine too, for that matter). D and SIL are most likely going to be moving in with us for a while in about a month. they are needing to (wanting to) come back "home" to this area....
H commented that "we are just now getting things put back together, and they will be adding to the stress, I guess all our good times will go down the tubes"...I told him I refuse to let that happen, they will need to be giving us "space" and out doing their own thing... but I have to admit it does worry me. The plan is to clean out the basement room that now houses h's books and computer and has the phone he's spent days with monster on, and let them have that for a bedroom, and to hopefully finish off a teeny part for a private sitting area for them, and there is a pretty private entrance to the basement. so maybe it won't be too bad. OR, maybe the best case scenario will happen, and they will have found jobs by the time they come back and be able to get their own place.
I am certainly praying for that! Of course and upside could be that we might be able to take off for a weekend and leave S13 with them!
I see you've made progress in the months I've been gone. It's probably so small that you haven't noticed it...but I can tell. It is slow and painful, isn't it?
I like the name 'monster'. Quite funny.
Anyway...she will disappear from the scene when it's time for her to. If that makes any sense. When you and H are ready to deal with that, she'll be gone. Quit, fired, however. Because, trust me, there is more to sort through after she is out of the picture. At the moment, you are focussing energies on how horrible she is...when she's gone, you'll have to focus more on yourselves.
Something else I still notice you doing...you still discount every bit of hard-earned progress you have! You second-guess stuff. Take the good at face value. Enjoy it.
Hi Nevanna, I just read your thread, gotta post to you...but it's nice to hear from you, and congrats on your big news.
And yes, you are right and make a good point that I still second guess myself. I'm still very gun shy! hopefully I'm getting some better, but it is slow!
only have a minute to post, will need to catch up tomorrow, but yesterday was a weird, off-kilter, out-of-sorts kind of day. I actually blew up at H, it's a long story, but the gist is I'd had a really wild day, ran errands after work, was hurryied getting home to make supper, feed critters, balance check book and pay bills.
H came home, went to the fridge to get a cold beer...and there wasnt one, he'd asked me to put one in for him and I forgot. H commented snottily "I guess my simple request was too much". and I blew sky high. it was brief, I don't even remember what I said. but the look on his face was total shock. later he apologized for coming in grumpy, and I apologized for snapping at him, but you know, I have to admit, I didnt WANT to apologize, I was po'd at him for being so damn rude. Lord, I was mad. I couldnt believe he said such a thing.
It was kind of a rough night, I don't think he slept much. Things seem better today. I'll have to fill in details in Am, gotta go get S13, but I know H and I are both under a lot of stress with work and D and her H moving in with us for a while, It's kinda scary to me.
I can't believe how mad I was at him though. it's a good thing I didnt have anything to throw.
ok, to "catch up" my sitch here, i can't quite decide if things are "normal" or "weird", and of course I'm having a tough time not being anxious. As Nevanna said I'm good at 2nd guessing any positives.
I was pretty shook about our "blow up" Tuesday night, and when we got in bed, H said something, don't remember what, that kind of set me off, I thought I was going to get tearful so I got up and left the room. A bit later I decided I was over reacting and tired to boot, so went back to bed, told him I needed a hug, he said "you do" and gave me one. then he apologized for being so grumpy, and kind of explained. The female co-worker in the out of town office is leaving the state in the spring to marry a guy who lives hundreds of miles away whom she met in the summer at a wedding dance. She dumped her live-in when she met the guy she is going to marry. She is pretty weird to work with lately from what H says, as she is upset that plans have already been made to move someone into her slot and fill it up, so she'd grumpy and pouty and not wanting to do much work. Well, H said that it had been a hard day with her because she is so wound up, and that he is "extra sensitive now to that snotty mouth stuff because it was so abusive with monster"...sets his teeth on edge. And that he was personally disappointed to see how fast she dumped the guy she was with when a "better deal" came along. That is really upsets him anymore to see such a lack of commitment and always looking for the best deal. He apologized for bringing it home and being so grumpy, I apologized for being so snappish. H said he "just wasnt expecting that"...
So, hopefully this is "normal", but it's still somewhat worrying to me because I feel like he is still hurt from monster. I wish he could get past it already.
Yesterday AM I got this email:
Quote: Deb; I’m waiting on pt. so I thought I’d fire off an e-mail. I hope your day is going good. (co-worker) seems to be in a better mood today. Damn, I hate moody people!! I am sorry for being so grumpy last night, just a frustrating day. I sure love you. Later D
I wrote back that sometimes I have a tough time because I don't know what's going on with him, and am learning new ways to relate, that it really is like a new R, and sometimes i'm afraid we're headed in the wrong direction. Got this response:
Quote: Yep, I love you. Now don’t you stress. We are not going backward, I promise. Later Your D
When he got home from work last night, he gave me a warm hug and nice kiss. For the last 2/3 weeks he hasnt seemed as warm as he had been so it was really nice. I told him that it takes the glow off of the world when something is askew between us. he commented "that was yesterday" and was pleasant.
Later he initiated ml, which had also not been as frequent the last couple of weeks.
this morning he was pleasant, sent me some ILY responses in emails. Stopped by my office a bit ago on the way home, and looked really really tired. neither of us is sleeping very well, I don't know why, I wonder if it has to do with the time change. a male coworker in the out of town office has said he's having the same problem according to H.
So, I guess it't just a matter of gaining confidence, in dealing with the ups and downs...obviously H is still kinda bruised emotionally, and I sure as heck am.
I am trying to be lighter and not so "worried" about stuff. I know my anxiety is hard for him to deal with.
Hey Deb, I think big picture things are getting better for you. This sitch with out of town woman is doing nothing more than reminding H how messed up Monster was and how bad of a mistake he made to even have EA with her. I would just stay on track with making the new R the best you can and least the past become the past. If my W was saying half the things your H is I would be in heaven. Appreciate what you have and what you have accomplished, you deserve every bit of happiness, you earned it. Don't hold on to old garbage, it's just not worth it.
Hey, Phoenix, thanks. I know you're right, overall things are sooooo much better. I guess I'm just having a hard time that after all this time, they stilla arent where I want them, and I still have a hard time when he pulls back and gets cranky and distant, because it stirs up all the hard stuff and corresponding anxiety from the pre-bomb days when I KNEW he was having an A but he adamantly denied it. and then the awful times when I knew where he was and what he was doing.
now, I do have proof of how much better things are. I havent yet had the guts to go back and read my old threads, they are so painful. BUT, I have almost every email I've gotten from H since about the time I registered on this board in a file on my work computer (not smart, I'm sure) and I read some of them this morning. OUCH!!!! talk about pain. but they are sooooo helpful. I look back and see that his emails were short, businesslike, and to the point. NO affection for the most part. I remember what a HUGE thing it was when he even started emailing me. I would have never dreamed then that I'd get a couple a day with ILY's in them and signed "Your H". I also know now when H and monster had their breakups, and looking back I can see that even in the few weeks they were apart in there, H seldom was warm with me...my guess is he was still waiting to see if she'd call him back (he's told me this)..I think of the hundreds, there may have been 2 or 3 that were warm, and only during breakup times. To my credit, I see that I did a good job after the time I registered here, of BACKING OFF and "being a friend"...mine are friendly but not 'mushy" or "pushy". There are a couple around the 1st week in December of 03 that are, but that's before I registered here and learned all this good stuff
I guess I'm a glutton for punishment, but I keep my old calendars/planners. For the last 2 years I've pretty much marked down when we've ml....and how it went is indicated by code (I know, I truly am obsessive) and I even looked back through some of that yesterday. What I see is that the times that mystified me that h was so amourous (ML 2/3 times/day) were usually RIGHT before and right after he had some big kind of "thing" (trip, activity, etc.,) going on with monster. Only now in hindsight do I have precise knowledged of when these things took place, but between my emails and calendars, it sure documents a pattern.
OUCH OUCH OUCH again but there is proof positive in stark black and white, of how far we have come.
H is still grumpy about work, and it still scares me, but even his grumpiness is DIFFERENT now, partially in that now he talks about it with me, clarifies what is causeing it, and this morning even told me he has concerns about how it affects me.
May someday I will have the courage to go back through my old threads.
I thought I'd update/journal some. kinda different stuff going on....not quite sure what to think. Friday, H was loving and romantic again...lots of hugs and ILY's. I was thrilled to have this back, as i thought he had been somewhat distant the last couple of week. we actually discussed that and he had said it has to do with work, absolutely nothing to do with me, and that I have nothing to worry about and worry too much.
Friday afternoon, H initiated ml, and was kinda weird, asking me to tell him stories about sex w/my old boyfriends (old as in a LONG time ago)...I know better than to "tell all", but i played along and told a little. It seemed to really jazz H up. In the night I woke up and H said in his "little boy" voice "I need you to hold me,I can't sleep, I had a bad dream"...so I did....in the morning he told me his bad dream was his own fault, because he was having bad dreams about me being with other guys, and that's what he gets for asking all those questions.
Go figure that one....does that make any sense??????? He has the affair, and yet HE has nightmares about me having sex with other guys? I cant' quite figure it out but it certainly seems ironic.
I told him I didnt plan on doing anything like that, but I could see how frustrating bad dreams could be when your partner has them and you havent done anything to cause them but there's not much you can do to be reassuring. h said "well you can imagine how bad it would be if the person went on and on about them for days and weeks and refused to let it drop"...I thought for a minute, and said "I didnt ever think I was THAT bad about icky dreams" and he said "no, i mean what's her face"...I "got it" then, said "oh, so monster had bad dreams" and he said yes, and she would never let him hear the end of them.
Saturday, H and S were gone all day hunting (first time S has gone) and I stayed home and worked on the family room decor. it was nice to have some time to myself.
Yesterday morning I was pooped and slept in. H got up and went walking. while he was gone, I had a bad dream, I was actually hunting down monster in my dream because she had snuck off with H again. When he got home, he came into the bedroom just as I was waking up. I told him to take off his clothes and get in bed and hold me because I had a bad dream. to my surprised he complied, made some comment about bad dreams being not "worth it"....but then he said "maybe monster wants me back is where all these dreams are coming from, what else could it be"? that kind of upset me, I don't know what the heck he was thinking...I find that kind of upsetting that he'd even say such a thing. I hope he was joking. I made light of it though, told him I was guessing they came from voodoo. told him mine did make me feel like hunting her down and kicking @ss though. H said "better be careful, monster knows "chi gong" or something like that...I told him real sarcastically "oh, I'm scared" and he said "yeah, the only real fight that's in monster is in her mouth". I decided not to spend anymore time on the subject of monster, so stopped talking about her...we snuggled for a while and then ml...
Last night we were discussing D and SIL moving in with us. this really concerns me, and H is not at all pleased about it. I had thought we could move H's books and stuff out of the basement room so they could stay there, but I should have known better. H is really upset at the prospect, and I know better with what I know now about mlc and pressure than to push the issue. I know how important it is to let him be in charge of and in control of his life. Soooooo, it looks like the only other option is to move "stuff" out of the tiny bedroom that is empty, and either move S13 back into it, or put D and SIL in there. It's very very tiny. and just across the hall from our bedroom , but better than making H feel that he has no control say. h even commented that "here it is again, it's my house and my life and I have nothing to say about it"...I validated very quickly, said I know, it's going to be a challenge, and that I hoped they wouldnt need to be here very long, but that it would be less work if we just put them up in the extra bedroom....(didnt mention it will also be less privacy).
I really do dread it, it's just hard haveing them underfoot because they are really messy and have weird schedules (it is nothing for them to be up till 4 am)....I am hoping that at least SIL will have a job located when they move back, although it probably won't pay much.
I don't know, it's kinda weird. I never dreamed I'd find myself in this position after the kids left home.
This morning I had about a 3-sentence email from H at 9 am, havent heard from him since, although he did say "I sure love you" and wished me a good day. Plus monster had the nerve to park right next (and I do mean right next) to me this morning. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! the Brass B--ls! I'm thinking i won't say a word to H about it because it gives her more credence than she deserves. Ordinarily I'd be complaining to him. or maybe I'll just mention it casually. I don't know.
I wonder if I will EVER get past the point of being made anxious by her.
I do see that Slowly is at much the same point though, so maybe it's not totally irrational.
Oh yeah, I was reading "after the affair" last week, left it on the sofa, and now I can't find my book. I'm thinking H must have picked it up. don't know if that's good or bad, but I did want to finish my book! Havent decided yet if I'm going to ask him about it or not.
I am having a tough tough time this morning. yesterday I hardly heard from h at all. but when he got home last night it became clear he had plenty of time to spend on email with monster. it just sucks I am so sick of this. it makes me crazy. And I seem to not be able to keep it from affecting me, even when I've tried really hard and think I'm doing ok. I am convinced monster is trying her damnedest to get H back, and I cant help but worry that it will work again, after all it always has before. I am so tired of this battle. I have not had one single email from H today. I've even turned off my interoffice email so I won't be settign myself up for disappointment by looking at it.
As I mentioned, she parked right next to me yesterday. that struck me as a really aggressive move. I mean in the parking space right next to me. Not close, right next to me.
So, when H got home last night we were talking, and I don't know how the subject got to monster, but it did. I had been going to say nothing about her...but somehow I mentioned that I'd had the joy of getting to be right next to her...and then H started in telling about their email conversations.
Evidently monster had her evaluation and it was good and she got a raise, so s--t, she'll be here for ever. although h said she talked about how poorly employees are treated here and that he encouraged her to explore other opportunities???????
evidently she emailed H that things are not working out with the new boyfriend (damn that only took 3 months) and that h has ruined her life and that she is so lonely and that she is trying to fill up her weekends by taking her D to do things....I don't know what else was discussed, this is all I recall H mentioning.
H says it makes him angry and irritated, that he cant' take all of her fit throwing and emotion. I told him she is trying to get him back trying to guilt him into it...H says he doesnt see it, it doesnt make sense to him. But I know that is what she is doing.
oh yeah, H said she told him that it isnt fair, that he got what he wanted (me, our home & family) and she didnt get what she wanted (H or other guy).
I don't know what to do or think....I was pretty upset last night. H said he would never again say a word about anything between them, I told him that makes it worse. This morning we repeated those conversations, H said he was sorry, he should have been more considerate about what he told me. that I have nothing to worry about, that all her whining and fit throwing makes him more and more glad that he is away from her, that he cant stand it. That he feels more peaceful now, and that the more he is away from it/her the more he realizes how bad it really was.
He said he should just deleter her emails and ignore them but she makes him so angry.
last night when we got in bed, i was kind of over on my side, and H said "arent you going to hold me"...so I did, but it was hard to keep from crying. several times in the night he put his arm around me.
I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that his pulling back the last 2/3 weeks has something to do with monster, although he has denied it.
I really don't know what I'm going to do now...pull back myself I guess, reevaluate and catch my breath. I wish I could find my 'after the affair" book. I may have to ask him for it....I think he has to have it.
In there it talks about asking for what you need to get past it...I've been wondering if it's time to do that. I truly don't know.
I sure wish I would hear from him. I know it's childish and clingy and not detached, but it still makes me feel better.
If anybody has any ideas, I could sure use them. or insights if not ideas about what to do.
I have to work late tonight so won't be able to talk to him.
It is slow and painful, isn't it?
Enjoy it.
, but better than making H feel that he has no control say. h even commented that "here it is again, it's my house and my life and I have nothing to say about it"...I validated very quickly, said I know, it's going to be a challenge, and that I hoped they wouldnt need to be here very long, but that it would be less work if we just put them up in the extra bedroom....(didnt mention it will also be less privacy).