(((Karen)) I wish I could add more as well. I am in much the same spot. I gave the W a hug and a feel up on Saturday and got a "Guess we should go to be early" response. However when bedtime hit both Saturday and Sunday she was turning her light off(which is her code for going to sleep) both nights while I was reading to the kiddo.
Even though we had our couples group over the weekend, she's still not picking up that the frequency needs to be upped. We've got a weekend planned for the two of us at the end of October, so I hope we can figure something out then, but since there hasn't been a change in frequency since we started the counselling, ME Weekend and the Couple Group, I'm not optomistic.
So I wish I had something to add to help, but alas I am in the same boat as you, GGB and Hairdog.
Scott -Who does have the good news of starting a new job next Monday . However the last time he got jumped was some pretty bad mercy sex on our aniversary on Sept 1
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
Blech on the mercy sex. Double blech on Anniversary mercy sex.
My H swears he loves me, swears he feel passionate about me, swears he misses sex too, swears he misses spending time with me (see just about any of Honeypot's threads for the same rigamarole from her H) and yet not a GD bit of it actually relates to behaviors from him. He said last night that he wanted to know what he could do besides quit doing something vital in our lives. I said - how about a real kiss when I come home, how about jumping in the shower with me once in a awhile, how about a nice grope once in a while. The excuses ranged from - too busy, to too big to fit in the shower together, to can't grope with small children around. OMG - it is hopeless. The only excuse I hear is "I don't really want to." Well, I guess I better accept that one since that is what is operational here.
Got an apology type of email from H. Didn't directly apologize (rarely does) but he said he understood that I was trying to say that I love him and he was trying to say the same to me. Sorry we don't have more time together blah.... I don't believe that time is the issue. He won't seem to hear that message either. How much time does it really take to feel up your S in the kitchen? How much time is required for a real kiss instead of a peck? C'mon - tell that crap to someone who believes it.
Quote: How much time does it really take to feel up your S in the kitchen?
15 seconds the first time and 30 seconds the next 10 times, then 15 minuets to get naked and do the horizontal squirm. Gees, K that is almost waisting a half hour.
Karen, Mrs GGB will do the brief affection in the kitchen IF SHE REMEMBERS that I like it, which she most of the time does not. When she does, it is usually very sophomoric rather than intimate and just comes across as "OK, I did it, you happy", which I know is not her intention but still it is the way it is done and comes across. I don't think she has a clue as to how to be seductive, and any attempts to gently clue her in get met with hurt feelings. The social ineptness, as HP put it, is something I just have to get used to because I don't think it is going to change. SIGH, so this is what we get married for
That was good advice you gave zB about how to start a counselling session. We're about to make history this Saturday - we have an appointment to see the Japanese counsellor. The kids will be there - it's a family session. I think there are some acceptance issues at stake. W feels she is not accepted in the community because she is Japanese. W also feels that DD7 is not accepted by her peers because she is half Japanese. I'm hoping the C will give her some perspective on how to gauge acceptance. I have been unable to do that.
I hope the C will suggest a meeting with just the parents. After all, there are some things you don't talk about in front of the kids. Anyway, if the C doesn't, I will.
hey K
spent some time looking at the details of your thread,
had some ideas wanted to make sure they hadn't been covered here.
You and your H sound REALLY active. 4 kids from college to baby. Careers, etc. Your H trains for triathalons..... I did this from 17-21 when I moved to Alaska. Too chilly. it takes butt loads of time.
Mrs. NOP's ideas in the beginnging were excellent.
I wanted to talk about the scheduling and 15 hours/wk for just you two, and extracurricular activities.
you may have seen this demonstration or heard it before.
If you take a bowl and FILL it up with rice(non important stuff) and then try to put eggs(important stuff) on top
they arent going to fit and if there is a bump.... oops they get knocked off and you made a mess.
But if you put the eggs in first.... church, family, cheer practice, tutoring, triathalon training (?)lol, 15 hrs/wk, ML, you can pour almost all of the rice on top. It all fits if you put the important stuff in first.
You mentioned some good things about tonality and non pressure approach to asking for what you wanted.
When you are up too it, time to implement this new/remembered information. You also mentioned how your H takes care of the details when it is something he likes, he doesnt assume you dont want to do it, because you didnt take care of the details. He isnt a cheerleader, thats not his personality... something he needs to work on probably, but not something you should take personal. Take a lesson, take care of the details when it comes to something you want to do together.
I didn't want to drag an unwilling partner there like I often have into my bed assume he wants to, even if he mumbles, or acts negative. Its good for you, forcing you to work on a insecurity, good for the R. ignore and plow ahead. Assume the positive, if he didnt want to be there, or do things with you, he wouldnt, he is 'self-centered' remember?
scheduled time together and scheduled sex arent 'fun' at first, but they do become great.
can you participate with your H in some way with the Tri. traning? ride a bike along while he is running? I dont know how pro he is, did you say Olympic hopefull somewhere, you probably couldnt then.... Fitness is obviously very important to him... is it important to you? can you join him some way?
I am guessing he swims in a pool, most do for training, can you join him there? you obviously dont have to keep up, but I see a lot of all around positives for you if you were able to join him in that part of it.
Oh yeah, what exactly is his religious issue, has he verballized it, are you assuming?, have you scripturally countered?
Hello All, I have an avid viewer (lurker) here for a great many months. I could not miss the oppertunity to to share an expanded version of Blackfoots "demonstration" that I recently saw on the web.
Is Your Jar Full?
When things in your life seem almost to much to handle, when 24 hours in a day are not enough, remember the mayonnaise jar......and the beer.
A Professor stood before his philosophy class and had some items in front of him. When the class began, wordlessly, he picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar and proceeded to fill it with golf balls. He then asked the students if the jar was full. They agreed that it was.
So the Professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly. The pebbles rolled into the open areas between the golf balls. He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.
The Professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar. Of course, the sand filled up everything else. He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded with an unanimous "Yes."
The Professor then produced two cans of beer from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively filling the empty space between the sand. The students laughed.
"Now," said the Professor, as the laughter subsided, "I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life.
The golf balls are the important things - your family, your children, your health, your friends, your favorite passions - things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, your life would still be full.
The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, your house, your car. The sand is everything else - the small stuff."
"If you put the sand into the jar first", he continued, "there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls. The same goes for life. If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff, you will never have room for the things that are important to you. Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness. Play with your children. Take time to get medical checkups. Take your partner out to dinner. Play another 18. There will always be time to clean the house, and fix the disposal. Take care of the golf balls first, the things that really matter. Set your priorities. The rest is just sand."
When he had finished, there was a profound silence. Then one of the students raised her hand and with a puzzled expression, inquired what the beer represented.
The Professor smiled. "I'm glad you asked. It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem, there's always room for a couple of beers."
Just my 2 pennies...
"And wrinkles only go where the smiles have been." J. Buffett
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. H and I are both psychologists so we have done the jar demos. Living them seems to be another story entirely. I especially like the beer one because I firmly believe that there is always room for small pleasures.
I will try to address Blackies post because there are good thougths here.
___________________________________________________________ You and your H sound REALLY active. 4 kids from college to baby. Careers, etc. Your H trains for triathalons..... I did this from 17-21 when I moved to Alaska. Too chilly. it takes butt loads of time.
Mrs. NOP's ideas in the beginnging were excellent. I wanted to talk about the scheduling and 15 hours/wk for just you two, and extracurricular activities. ___________________________________________________________
Yes, we are horribly active (stress on the word horribly). Actually we have 4 college kids currently in the house, three little kids and about 14 former foster kids that still stop by regularly for Sunday dinner and a little advice. Mrs. Nops ideas are excellent.
The issue that H keeps challenging me with is "what can we stop doing?" Can we stop my hour commute to a job that I love and the income that we need? Can we stop helping kids with homework and taking them to scouts. We have already limited their extracurricular activities. H trains for triathlons to give him incentive to excercise. He isn't competitive about it and he has recently discovered that his cholesterol is high and the exercise is more important than ever. I completely support him on this. Furthermore, he uses his excercise time to spend time with whatever kid is interested in going too. We do pretty well with going to dinner a few times per month and are going away for WWME in November but regular, during the week time is nonexistent. I could live with that if H would concentrate on little touches here and there, a real kiss every day and sex 2 or 3 times per week. Even that seems insurmountable to him.
they get knocked off and you made a mess. ___________________________________________________________
You mentioned some good things about tonality and non pressure approach to asking for what you wanted. When you are up too it, time to implement this new/remembered information. ___________________________________________________________
My H seems to respond best to a completely non-pressure approach in which I still speak his LLs. It often doesn't increase the sex, just makes the HH very pleasant.
You also mentioned how your H takes care of the details when it is something he likes, he doesnt assume you dont want to do it, because you didnt take care of the details. He isnt a cheerleader, thats not his personality... something he needs to work on probably, but not something you should take personal. Take a lesson, take care of the details when it comes to something you want to do together. ___________________________________________________________
Good point on the cheerleader stuff. That isn't his style at all. I did take care of all the details on the November weekend (my birthday) and it does work well when I do that.
I didn't want to drag an unwilling partner there like I often have into my bed assume he wants to, even if he mumbles, or acts negative. Its good for you, forcing you to work on a insecurity, good for the R. ignore and plow ahead. Assume the positive, if he didnt want to be there, or do things with you, he wouldnt, he is 'self-centered' remember? ___________________________________________________________
You are right about this.
___________________________________________________________ scheduled time together and scheduled sex arent 'fun' at first, but they do become great. ___________________________________________________________
H flat refuses to schedule sex. ___________________________________________________________
can you participate with your H in some way with the Tri. traning? ride a bike along while he is running? ___________________________________________________________
Actually, H forces himself on the fitness thing. I can't go because someone has to be with the small ones. Physically I could train to the point where I could join him for the bike or the swim or part of the run but he does use this for kid time and I think it does save us time in that kids who want his time go with him.
Oh yeah, what exactly is his religious issue, has he verballized it, are you assuming?, have you scripturally countered? ___________________________________________________________
H is a former seminarian. I think the relgious issue centers around service and sacrifice. When he decided not to be a priest he decided to serve God another way. His way is fostering/mentoring youth. Religiously, sex comes absolutely dead last after acts of service to God. He hasn't directly said this but if you look at how he spends him time you see how his priorities stack up.
I also believe that he has a lot of insecurities and anxieties around sex that keep him from being sexual. This is his deal. He has to want to deal with those. I can't do it for him. I have anxieties about abandonment and personal attractiveness. I have to deal with those.
H is turning 40 next month. He just mentioned the other night that he is taking it pretty hard. He is taking it so hard that he actually said that maybe we shouldn't have another baby (something he wants more than anything in this world) because of his age, our already stretched time etc... He seems to be in a bit of a negative emotional spiral which cerainly doesn't help.
Also, if I were to guess at the biggest disappointment he has in me it is probably that he feels that I am angry or disappointed in him. He really wants to be my Hero and the fact that I feel unloved, undesired and unsupported as a woman upsets and confuses the h@ll out of him. I don't know how to handle this.
Quote: I also believe that he has a lot of insecurities and anxieties around sex that keep him from being sexual. This is his deal
That was my H to a tee. All the scheduled sex, romantic dinners, lingerie, etc will not change the fact that his sexual hang-ups are his to own and address. H and I tried the scheduled sex last year and that went up in flames. All of those techniques are band-aids covering up much deeper problems. I think most of the people on this board have at least some problems in their M way beyond not having hot sex. Those band-aid approaches I mentioned, as well as all those "1001 Ways to Turn On your Lover" books, work fine for a completely healthy M that just needs a little spicing up but not for truly SSM's. You mentioned your H is upset about turning 40 soon. There is one issue that can turn into a nightmare if not addressed by both of you. Communicate with him about those feelings, even if they are very painful. I think you will both benefit.
. However the last time he got jumped was some pretty bad mercy sex on our aniversary on Sept 1 
Gees, K that is almost waisting a half hour. 
