Okay my line of thought went hmm when you started talking about the animals. Just wondering how many animals you had when your kids were little. At anytime has your wife expressed a want for another child? A lot of people subsitute animals for children. And I noticed your children are of independent ages so it could be a possiblity. I went through a phaze of chickens goats pony ducks cats and dogs. Every time my kids took a step towards independence I took on a new animal. I wanted another child still do. Was subsituting my motherly instincts with animal needs. Lucky for me 70 chickens later I realized what I was doing. Because even though the animals needed me as a infant would to take care of them it was never enough to fufill that need. Oddly I really never liked animals on a large scale prior to this phaze in my life. I thought they were cute. But animal dander animal droppings and animals helping themselves to food my children was attempting to eat always came first to mind when thinking of instilling them in my household and made me ahh not so fond of them prior to this phaze. My sister who also wanted another child but did not have anymore then her 3 also has 6 dogs 3 cats and birds of some sort.Takes in strays nutures them back to health then looks for homes for them. Keeps what ever ones she cannot place.
Well just thought I would add my 2cents Have a good day
Quote: Her day starts out with her waking up and springing out of bed to take the dogs out. It stays devoted to the dogs until she finally can’t keep her eyes open and has to tear herself away from the rescue group website and email, take the dogs out, and crawl into bed
I had the mini version here.
I used to really like cats and dogs. Now they are still OK but I get that defensive feeling when the animals are the most important members of the family.
No more zoo or I am out of here. I still see a place for a couple of animals if they are not treated like princes or princesses.
Quote: So I know this is a rant, and I apologize for that
don't apologize for anything ZB, like I say BTDT with the animals but to a lesser degree.
Lil's post
Quote: ." She resisted that idea reiterated that for her the animals would always come first, and that anyone who was married to her had to understand that.
Well I got a similar speech. BB was "anyone that wants me to get rid of an animal, he goes first."
Re Lil
Quote: Every fiber of her being is focused on animal welfare and there's no room for anything else
This is the problem "every fiber", what about balance ZB? I bet it would only take a couple hours a day of your W's time devoted to the family for you guys to be happier.
Quote: And guess what? W got mad at me for “running around and messing with the car”
If you need to work on the car, work on the car.
I am sure you would not want your D to be stranded somewhere in the day and especially at night.
I am with Lil in saying I appreciate people taking care of animals but i see some people going overboard and the animals become more important than people. That bad.
ZB, maybe it is time to make an additional kennel for your W to stay in to see if she wants to be a cat/dog or a W and mother.
Considering the subject, this may be a bad choice of words, but you’re barking up the wrong tree. She got our first dog within a month or two of our getting married, but it took me over eleven years to convince W to have children. D17 is our only natural child. W’s first words after the birth were, “What color is her hair?”. The second sentence out of her mouth was, “I hope you like this one, because we’re never doing this again.” At that time, we had three dogs and a cat.
Six and a half years later, mostly because D(then)6 kept begging for a sister, W relented and we adopted a three year-old girl from Romania. Our other pseudo-daughter, D20, is really an exchange student from Moldova that we had for the 2002-2003 school year - her senior year. We just loved her so much that we decided to keep her. It wasn’t easy, but we managed to get all of the paperwork through and we’re putting her through college in the U.S. She just started her third year of college.
The animal population explosion took place when we finally moved out of town a couple of years ago. We had four dogs and two cats when we moved, but once we had acreage and no city ordinances limiting the number of dogs (an ordinance she was already exceeding), there was no holding her back.
So the animal thing started before the kids and has been limited only by space. Small apartment: one dog. Small house: two dogs and a cat. A little bit bigger house with a little bit bigger yard: three dogs and a cat. A really big house with an acre and a half back yard: four or five dogs and anywhere from two to four cats. And now, out in the country with acreage and a barn we’ve converted to kennels: who knows – the list’s still growing.
I think you nailed how I feel. I do still like the animals, but I get resentful that they are the most important members of the family. That's just wrong. W denied it when I said it in MC, but I still very firmly believe that if W was forced to choose between her dogs and me, I would be out in the cold. I honestly believe that, and that's not what M is supposed to be.
FWIW, I did take care of D's car and I remain unapologetic for doing it. In my book, the kids come before the dogs. W is just going to have to live with that.
Out of curiosity have you ever written out a list of what you think your W's priorities are...and put where you feel you fall on that list and given it to her?
In the 1st C session my H and I ever went to (right after I put my foot down about counseling) I was stunned to see the dumbfounded look on my H's face when I listed off what his priorities appeared to me to be. When I finished our C said "where do you fit on the list?" I told her, I don't...I'm not even in his top 10 priorities, I feel completely unimportant.
It was very hard for him to hear this from me, but he also couldn't deny when I listed all the things that came before me...it made it VERY evident that he made no room for me in his life at that time.
I'm sure you've probably done this, but maybe it's time to do it again. Heck...use her lipstick and write the freakin list on her bathroom mirror, next to your name put a "?"
Just throwing some stuff out there...hoping something sticks for ya.
ZB, When the sex was better, did the animal situation bother you as much?
I'm trying to see if this issue stands on its own or if the resentment from the rug-yanking is causing it to have more oomph. I know it bothers you regardless, but does it bother you enough to take a stand on it even in sex-filled times, or only when you are pissed off about other issues too?
Just curious.
If I were you, I'd haul her back into counseling and before the introductions were even complete, I'd stand up and forcefully announce: "I have two issues with my wife. First of all, I've endured 30 years of sexless marriage with her and secondly, I've done it while she has been obssessed with animals that run our lives."
Then sit down and let the fun begin.
Hugs to you; your life sounds miserable to me. I am not an animal lover (don't dislike them, I just do not want to live with them, except as they live in nature) so take that with a grain.
Actually, I've never made such a list. We did discuss the dog thing in C, but nothing ever came of it. W admitted that it was not a good thing for her to get more dogs after I had very specifically told her not to, but what really happened was that she just quit asking me. That way I never had the opportunity to say no.
And before anybody starts coming down on me, yes, I know I could/should have done the boundary and consequence thing. But at the time that this was coming out in C, I was coming out of the A and didn’t feel that I was in a position to make demands. Even now, I don’t know what consequences I would be willing to enforce. I can draw the line in the sand about taking in any more animals, but when she crosses it, I can’t throw the animal out into the cold. So what has developed is a pattern where I draw a boundary with no consequences, she ignores it, and I redraw the boundary. I’m not willing to toss the animals out and I’m not willing to leave her over them. Yet.
HP,
This has been an issue ever since we passed two dogs. I'll admit that it doesn't bother me quite as much when there is regular sex, but that’s not because it ceases to be an issue with me. When there’s regular sex, the obsession with animals still bothers me, but I don’t feel quite as unimportant to her. Objectively, I recognize that I still come in behind the animals on her priority list, but it’s easier to take when I’m getting at least a little attention.
Quote: I have two issues with my wife. First of all, I've endured 30 years of sexless marriage with her and secondly, I've done it while she has been obssessed with animals that run our lives.
With that one sentence you have pretty much summed up my M. And even though I’m generally a pretty positive, cup is half full kind of guy, I think that a lot of the time my life is miserable. I just keep trying to make that lemonade.
I am seeing a pattern here, that many LD's have a general problem with priorities. Some are using animals, some are using kids, some are using work. Maybe they do this to avoid their spouse. But what if many of them do this becuase this is the way they have always been? Maybe it is not us HD spouses that cause the problem, maybe there are LD people out their that just flat out can not build deep connections with others. They just are not into intimate relationships with other people. Putting animals ahead of people? That just seems so strange.
Ok, then if you've never tried literally writing out a list and showing her where you feel you fall on it...then try it. Maybe she needs the visual aid of actually looking at it.
I know dealing with someone who loves animals is difficult, my mother takes in every stray animal that comes around and it's difficult for my dad to deal with. Mom has always been this way, and will always be this way....for her though it stemms from abandonment issues of her own, besides a simple love of animals.
It sounds to me too that perhaps you are avoiding bringing up some tough things because of your A. Remember that is in the past, forgive yourself for it and move on (if you haven't already). You know as well as everyone else here that problems don't go away unless they are addressed.
You CAN tell her that she is spending all of her time and energy on the animals and leaving no time for you and your M. She has to find a common-ground....you must feel you are a priority to her, if she wants this M to work...you cannot make it work on your own.
ZBube...don't avoid what you know needs to be said. You CAN tell her that her continuing to bring in animals when she knows it's not a good time sends you clear signals that YOU and your M aren't a priority to her.
You CAN tell her what this continued behavior will eventually lead to. If you aren't ready to leave now...tell her that you won't live this way indefinitely.
Zbube...remember I wasn't ready to walk out the door either. But I have set some pretty clear boundaries for my H (I think) by being very blunt. I couldn't continue skirting the issues or being gentle about what I was saying to him and have him understand how serious I was.
I had to start sounding as serious as I felt to get through. So far it seems to be working.
Quote: Even now, I don’t know what consequences I would be willing to enforce. I can draw the line in the sand about taking in any more animals, but when she crosses it, I can’t throw the animal out into the cold.
It seems to me that the underlying issue isn't the number of animals... it's the fact that whether there are two dogs or two hundred dogs, she always places you at the end of the list. If you had animals running all over the house, but the bedroom was off limits to them and that bedroom was a sanctuary of love and intimacy where you two retreated at the end of every day to reconnect emotionally and physically, the animals would NOT be a problem. You would see her as a very loving and compassionate person whose love overflowed to all nature. But what you have is someone who is stingy with EC to you and lavishes all her love on animals INSTEAD of you. THAT hurts.
It also seems to me that drawing a line in the sand about the animals is not the way to go. The line in the sand should be drawn regarding the way she relates to you. If she's like my friend, delivering any ultimatum about the animals will cause her to choose them over any human being. You might have more success in addressing only your R with each other and leaving the animals out of it.
