Thanks. My first reaction to your question was, well she would say she has nothing to gain, that it would be for me. But now you've got me thinking. I think I'll try to work this question in tonight when we talk. Thanks.
I have to say, GGB, that I am surprised and shocked that it has taken this level of pulling the rug to get my h to take notice of what I've been saying to him. I mean, I pulled the rug out, rolled it up, burned it and buried the ashes.
He has said that this is the only thing that would have waken him up. WHY I want to know. This totally baffles me. I've heard people on this board say things like, I didn't really know how serious he/she was until this happened...
but that doesn't have the full ring of truth to me. I think that it's more that they were NOT going to change until they realized that they had no other options. IOW, fear of having to change..of the unknown..was keeping them rooted in their old behavior, even as they saw things crumbling around them. The signs were there, they ignored them, because they were more afraid of changing than they were of their spouses' anger or disappointment. Then when it all falls apart, suddenly they are more afraid of losing them than of change. But it takes that level of a threat to jolt them enough. I find this disheartening.
My H alternates back and forth between being sad and acceptance. He is convinced that there is a flicker of love somewhere, for him, and I've not argued the point. Perhaps he's right. I sure don't feel anything now but that could change.
He was asking repeatedly if I was going to leave him and I assured him that I have NO intention of doing that, now or later. That seemed to pacify him. Then he said that he was the type of person who would be rocked by this announcement but would eventually accept it and settle into our new routine. A csw he aint, Lillie!
Anyway, GGB, I wanted to say that I find it amazing the level of abandonment that has to occur in order to get my spouse's attention.
Yes - I was fairly LD within my first, miserable marriage. In my case it wasn't really discomfort with sex it was with the R itself. The more unhappy I was in the R, the less sexual I felt. Plus, ex-H had a field day with my insecurities - "you aren't sexy", "you are fat", "you need bigger boobs", "you need to dance around in sexy lingerie every night", "your clothes, hair, makeup aren't sexy." It had a lot to do with respect - I lost it for him and myself.
However, it doesn't help me in understanding H's LD because he professes to think me a wonderful wife, partner and mother. He professes to feeling very passionate about me. (Huh?) He professes to finding me attractive. (Not so you could tell). Anyway, I can understand the whole thing in the context of having sex when you dont' really desire it. It is difficult to participate especially if you are nursing resentments. H professes to have no resentments or areas of anger with me. H is just "too tired" or "too busy" to ML regularly.
I would love to help work through H's discomforts with sex. He pretends he isn't uncomfortable - behaves with some bravado about the topic. I have asked about fantasies. He "doesn't know." The ONE time he decided to address is is while we were dating he staged a beautiful seduction scene on New Year's Eve where he took off my clothes, gave me oral etc... all on the LR sofa. He put my hand on his crotch and said "This is one of fantasies."
I have asked about positions and he says he just isn't comfortable with any other ones - side by side or female superior are all he is comfortable with. He is concerned with "crushing" me or otherwise overwhelming me with his size (he's 6'2" and 240 and I'm 5'5" and 115). I have assured him that I would find that very erotic. Doesn't happen. Whatever happens or doesn't happen during sex is with him laying on his back and letting me pilot things. That is where I get the idea that he is somehow uncomfortable. If I do everything then it quells his discomfort. I think.
Re GEL: I ended up being the only one actively doing anything...he was pretty much just laying there like a bump on a log. So....I stopped, got off of him and said "I'm not doing this, this isn't worth it." I think lots of guys are in that position, but we continue.
I kind of have done this but just in a verbal way. I said, " You don't seem to be into this. I am thinking about stopping." That was after me doing all of the moves and taking her clothes off.
BB said to keep going with the sex if I would keep doing her back.
Sometimes I thought of getting up, finishing myself off in front of BB and go watch TV. I thought that would be passive agressive so I did not do it.
Do any of the ladies think a guy could do what GEL did and not have it backfire on the guy? How would you take it? What could a guy say to get the point across without stepping over the respect line? I don't intend to be vindictive.
OMG - I don't know how to take a statement like. "I was initially rocked by the idea that my wife had fallen out of love with me but as long as she doesn't leave I can deal with this arrangement." I hope he finds it harder than he thinks. Or did I (I hope) misinterpret the spirit of what he was saying.
I mean. Sometimes I am convinced that my H settles for a lackluster SL, lackluster intimacy etc...because anything else just feels unsafe somewhow. Cause what if he really invested in me, really "let himself go" in the R and then it turned out that I left, or lied or wasn't who I represented myself to be.
Just some thoughts about my sitch but I was reflecting on why mediocrity like that would be ok with Mr. HP.
I think you could say. I'm ML with you because I love you and find you attractive. You aren't here with me and it really isn't worth it this way. Would it be passive-agressive. Hhmmmm - only if you coerced, begged and otherwise manipulated her to get in the sack then walked off. That's what I think.
HP, I'm not sure what MrsGGB is feeling. She knows something is different, as she keeps asking me if she did something to make me mad at her, what am I angry about etc (I am not angry in the least...at least as far as I can tell. I've just lost that loving feeling). Anyway, last night she asked if we could talk, but not last night because she was too tired, so we have a talk date set for tonight. I guess that is something, because she never wants to talk.
Funny thing, is I think perhaps I am as guilty of resisting change as she is. I had no intention of detaching like this, it just happened. I think the realization that she was going through the sex for my sake, and that she wasn't really getting much out of it is the pin that popped the balloon. It isn't the reason the balloon was over-inflated and ready to pop anyway. I haven't had the heart to tell her that I'm not feeling in love, which I suppose is rather dishonest of me. Like you, I'm not going anywhere: The kids need a dad, we can't financially swing a separation, and besides I did make a committment to her in front of God.
I wish you were telling us that your detachment woke MrH up and that he morphed into a CSW. Acceptance of a non-relationship rather than fighting for more would probably just push you (and me) even further away. Surely he's got a little bit of backbone in there somewhere? How much do you need to let go before he'll fight to keep what he had??? HP, you were supposed to encourage me and tell me that this would pass, instead you are telling me there is no one ready to grab the other end of the rope and pull you back in. That, my friend, sounds very lonely.
I pray for both of our S's to find the cajones to pull us back in. ((((((HP))))))
Speaking for myself only on this...if someone did to me what I did when my H wasn't participating...it would have gotten my attention, but that's me. The reason it would get my attention is, take my XH for example when I was LD....I knew he had a high SD...I knew he wanted sex a lot...I knew it was important to him....I had no desire for him. So, if he'd have stopped in the middle on me...I'd have gone "whoa! He's always after me for sex, now he's getting it...and he's stopping? Why?" For me it would have had an impact....that's one reasy I did what I did when my H just laid there.
And once again IMPO...if you feel like you are the only one participating....tell her that. What I told my H was..."yes, you're here but you aren't participating. You aren't touching me anywhere, you aren't moving at all...you are leaving it to me to do everything. I may as well be doing this myself."
What I said might have hurt him, but it was truthful and honest. It also lead to one of our more productive conversations.
Putting it that way...doesn't send a clear signal IMPO. The phrase "you aren't here with me" won't work, it's too vague. She is there physically and it can be misconstrued. That's why I chose to tell my H "you aren't participating." It let him know clearly why I stopped.
Quote: Anyway, GGB, I wanted to say that I find it amazing the level of abandonment that has to occur in order to get my spouse's attention.
Maybe this happened to him before and in order to "fix" it he's trying to reenact it so that it comes out right this time? Just my uprofessional armchair analysis.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
