You always seem to know how to post and bring focus to a sitch. Thanks!
I've been very busy at work (which has been good actually!) and detached for the last two days. Giving me and H some space. Surprisingly, when I got home late last night he was reading DR. Couldnt believe it! I would've answered you that, no he probably wouldnt read a book. But when he accused me of not sharing what I'm reading and thinking about, I told him that he could read just as well as I could if he wants. Seemed to make an impression because he brought the book and asked me about something he was reading in DR. A letter from a woman describing how she felt about her laid-back H. He asked if that's how I feel. We talked about it.. talked about opinions, talked about talking and decision making. Discussed your question of if he is insecure with himself, or insecure about my willingness to work on the R. He said both.. then elaborated to say that he's a VERY insecure person. Wants to avoid conflict at all costs. We talked about how him sharing his feelings and opinions would make our R better.. and if it would be hard for me to accept him speaking up. I asked him if I am controlling of others and disrespect their opinions? He said "no". We talked about how much space I give our kids as long as they demostrate that they are trustworthy... how much I've let S19 go since he started college. I said "H.. I'm the least controlling, fretting Mom I know.. as long as he is pretty much on track.. I don't worry about the small stuff. Yes, he makes mistakes, but I don't try to control that.. in fact, I view a lot of mistakes as necessary evil's to growth. It's when you refuse to confront the truth and learn from it that I want to get in there and express my opinion, because some of the mistakes you make impact the rest of us big time.
I mentioned the books you suggested. He agrees that we need to read the 5LL together and is going to try to find the other one you mentioned. So, for now.. I'm still in limbo. Remember when I said I keep forcing our R one way or the other because I HATE limbo? Well, I need to remember that! I'm just chilling out.. doing my thing.. and being conciously aware of my feelings.. good and bad. I'm living each day as it comes and not promising anything in the future. Only that I'll always care for H and be here for him. Until he starts moving in a direction.. I can't begin to work on this R with him. I hope that we can grow to be the best of friends while we're deciding on whether to stay together. I'm hoping that he realizes that he has a right to his opinions.. and doesn't have to live day to day trying to make me happy. I'm pretty happy.. I just want to know if he is someone that I can have a long term relationship with successfully, or if we'd just be coming back to this place over and over.
Seemed to make an impression because he brought the book and asked me about something he was reading in DR. A letter from a woman describing how she felt about her laid-back H. He asked if that's how I feel.
Holy guacamole! That's wonderful. He really is taking this seriously.
I'm just chilling out.. doing my thing.. and being conciously aware of my feelings.. good and bad.
And when you live like this, it leaves a space for H to step into and he has been. It must feel good to him to feel like he has an invested role in your marriage, and can be responsible to it. Sometimes when we (well, NOT ME... I mean the rest of you... I'm completely innocent of this, yep, sure) do all the work, they aren't left with any motivation to try. WELL DONE!!
Anna, you are too fun GF. Thanks for checking in on us and pointing out the positives. It helps to have someone else's point of view when things seem to be going nowhere! Will try to keep chillin' like a villin'
I started the day in a funk over a "kinda" argument H and I had last night. I was anticipating that it would spill over into today. I accused H of not caring (stupid I know!) because of how laid back he was last night when I had an unexpected health scare. I decided I would ACT AS IF when I talked to him this morning, and we didn't argue about it... thank goodness. He did say that he cares for me very much and if at any point he thought my life was in danger, he'd have acted to help me. Is he saying I over-reacted? Maybe. Did I? Don't think so, but maybe my level of concern was greater than his because my feelings and anxiety were involved. He probably was keeping a level head for me, and I viewed it as non-caring. I've got to stop looking at past history to determine how to interpret the things he does now.
Had a rough afternoon discussing some financial things. He's agreed to try to work out his issues with his C. He is upset and insecure that my feelings for him aren't what they used to be. I don't know what to do about it. I don't make an issue of it, but I think he's missing the closeness we shared. What to do? If we're close and then I mention a prob or issue, he asks me how can I be so loving and happy one day, but then the next, have so many problems with our R (what does this REALLY mean?). Evidently, I havent been consistent with how I feel? I'd agree with that, but it's hard to tackle the problems, but not still want to be loving and close. They are two different things to me.. one is dealing with the problem.. the other is building a loving R. But since I'm still in limbo with my emotions, I've claimed them and am not leading H to believe that we're one big happy family anymore. That makes him very insecure. What to do?
Thought I would just throw out some reminders I need:
- Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
- Do not backslide from hard earned changes.
-Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
-Learn that anger is your enemy.
-Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
-Be patient. Time is an asset even when it seems to be killing you.
Is there such a thing as a re-journal? Thought I'd post something positive for a change. My PMA is in the toilet this week I'm so confused and it's making me waffle. On the one hand I can see that H is making positive changes. He's better mentally and he's HERE. A few months ago that didn't look like it would happen. No sign of OW at all, except he sees her at work. I finally have a grip on that and it rarely comes up. He's sending out his resume like a wild man. He says ILU a million times a day, is affectionate, helps around here.. is going to church.. reading more. Is talking about changes he is working on.
Not sure what is wrong with ME. Except.. fear maybe. Fear that although we'll get closer.. my expectations of how we piece this together this time are big. Before I was willing to accept some of his flaws and work around them so we could be happy. Now, I'm not as willing to accept those parts of who he is. Maybe because I see how they helped get us to where we are. And because Im working on my flaws to help the R, and expect him to do the same. Mostly.. I think it's because he so openly accused me of controlling him. And the ways he said I control him are in areas that he's refused to accept responsibility for. I view my controlling as control by default.. if I didnt do it.. no one would. I resent that. And now I dont want to be labeled as controlling.. so I refuse to take full responsibility for those things. Which means he's going to have to change in ways where he can bear his share of the load or it won't work. Am I being stubborn because I don't want that label? Or, will it help that I'm stepping back so that he'll accept responsibility for himself. So many of the things that are an issue are things that he needs to be able to do to support himself..especially if something happened to me. He'd have to be able to pay the bills, plan, etc for him and the kids.
It's confusing. Financial issues are a big deal for us. I work finance for a living and am anal about budgeting and knowing where our money goes. He's a free spirit that likes to spend and worry later. I'm not a tightwad, but not having a plan makes me a wreck. I wish we could find a happy medium. I thought we had that before.. maybe we did and I'm just fighting it because he said I'm controlling? I mean.. we didnt fight about finances for four years. I took care of them... he respected that, and nobody went without or suffered. I didn't even object at that time to him signing his name on my checks because I didnt question his motives. Since he had the big backslide in the last year I don't trust him at all with it. Maybe I should recognize that he's not mismanaging the money anymore, or writing bad checks on his personal account, and try to trust him like I did before. sigh
There here's where I get very confused. Because I don't trust my judgement where he's concerned either. I go from being harshly judgemental, to overly forgiving.. making excuses for his actions. I wonder if he's manipulating me.. or if I'm being a b*tch. aaaack!
Anyway... there ARE positives. I just keep fearing that we'll get to a comfy place and be back where we were.
Great positive today.. H won tickets to the Auburn game Sat! WHOOOOO HOOOO! I've been dying to go to a game, and now we can. I'm thrilled. I haven't seen S19 in almost 4 weeks and I MISS him. Now we can go see him, watch him play (he's in the band), and spend some time alone We went last year and it was awesome.. just to see our son so grown up and having a blast is amazing. We get to hear all about what he's doing, but I love to see him in his element... with his friends.. so handsome in his uniform. Sigh.. I'm a happy Momma tonight! That and I can take him some goodies and cleaning supplies for his dorm room! he turned the webcam on the other night and OMG.. The boys loved it though. They were yelling at the computer like he could hear them. And they blew him kisses goodnight. I think a month is the longest we've gone without seeing him. So, it'll be good!
Still busy at work, so the time with H is limited. They were gone to church when I got home and I'll be working late nights Thurs and Fri. I'm trying to work on my PMA in the meantime. We were so close not long ago. When I found out about the job lies.. I just built a wall. Then when he wasnt working on counseling goals and blew off our church decisions.. it just took the hope out of me that things will ever be different. I know they'll never be different as long as I keep backsliding to an angry, hurt, fearful, and untrusting place. It's so hard to live in the moment and forget the progress that's been made. He just called to say they're on their way home. He sounds so happy. Said he misses me..sigh. He said that earlier today, and I asked what he means by that. He said "I just miss you.. miss time alone with you.. we need to keep taking our time alone together." Ive backslid on that too.. out of stubborness. I got tired of being the one to always plan our date night.. and weekends away.. find a babysitter, etc. But, I've always loved planning special things for us and our family. I LOVE planning vacations. About time I start that again and put away my stubborn pride. Things are much better when I do positive things for us.. even if H isnt moving as fast as I'd like.. it's a better place than it's been the last two weeks.
Unless of course.. I'm making excuses for him not applying himself..sigh.. time will tell. I just have to find the patience to keep living well in spite of H's falling short of that yardstick of mine!
I can so relate to something you wrote a post or two back, about how you don't want just a comfortable R. I would have settled for that six months ago, but now I want what I know is out there. Matter of fact, I want what W and Om have (or at least had, who knows what they've got now?). And it does make me very worried about a possible reconciliation. What if she can give me what I need but not what I really want? Or vice versa? Is one of us just going to end up walking away? I don't dwell on that a whole lot because in my case it's certainly putting the cart before the horse. But you're living it right now and I can definitely empathize.
I can't remember; is H in IC? If he's as insecure as he claims to be it seems that's something he could really use a hand with. People who don't think much of themselves don't expect much of themselves either, which makes it easier to screw up. Reading DR should be a good step for him; hopefully the idea of attracting your spouse instead of controlling them (with passivity, in his case) will strike home a bit. And I hope he finds a copy of _Wild at Heart_. It may or may not help but I think it certainly has potential.
It's scary, but I'm slowly coming back around to the idea that we have to work on making ourselves great and hoping our spouses get it together enough to want to stick with us and to be capable of it. But if we slow down in hopes they'll keep up, it just cracks our PMA and adds stress to a tense sitch. Better to at least be happy with how we're handling our own lives...it's so much emotional work to worry about how they're handling theirs.
So for awhile today, let's let 'em KMA while we kick some A, cause it's good for our PMA .
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Matter of fact, I want what W and Om have (or at least had, who knows what they've got now?). /color] Nahhh.. you can do WAY better than that! You've had way better. What they have is an illusion We've had the comfortable.. they have the icing on the cake. What we want is the whole dang cake, a scoop of ice cream, chocolate sprinkles, and a big juicy cherry on top!
I can't remember; is H in IC? If he's as insecure as he claims to be it seems that's something he could really use a hand with. People who don't think much of themselves don't expect much of themselves either, which makes it easier to screw up. Yes he is, but only monthly unfortunately. He's trying to get in more often so maybe that'll work out for him. Gosh.. I've heard that before about low expectations of oneself because you are insecure. Bud.. do you think there is anything that another person can do to help boost their S's self esteem? Do I praise him a lot? I mean.. H is a good guy.. he's a sweetheart, he's smart, he's a hardworker (he says he's lazy), he's compassionate and funny. Sigh.. I know I can't change him, but how can I help? without trying to rescue.
It's scary, but I'm slowly coming back around to the idea that we have to work on making ourselves great and hoping our spouses get it together enough to want to stick with us and to be capable of it. But if we slow down in hopes they'll keep up, it just cracks our PMA and adds stress to a tense sitch. Better to at least be happy with how we're handling our own lives...it's so much emotional work to worry about how they're handling theirs. Of course you are right and put it so perfectly. You have a way of saying something that helps me to see something clearer than before you arrived and shined your light on it!!
Have a good PMA story from this morning. The potato chip guy at Walmart flirted with me this AM. I've been wound up like a top all day...haha. Seriously, today is the closest I've been to being back to myself since a year ago July. I hope that means I'm letting go!
As always.. thanks for stopping by and sharing your insight. It means the world to me!!
Had a good evening last night. Got off of work at 7:00 instead of 9:00, so was able to make it to D11's game. H was happy and upbeat and dealt with the kids fine. He took them to the homecoming parade (including fixing D11's hair for her beforehand!). She called upset that I wouldnt be there to help her, but Dad did fine. Then he took the boys to find a good place to watch the parade. They passed a schoolmate of the boys and Ty got excited. He ended up sitting with the little boys family and watching the boys play. That's a step forward for H. He is quiet and doesn't go out of his way to be with people. But, I've seen lately how he is starting to start convos and enjoy interacting with others more. I called when I got off work and he was on his way to clean the boys up a little before the game.. and when I got to the football field they were all happy and fine. He didnt huff, make me feel guilty, or vent his stress at taking care of the kids much this week. He encouraged me to go home and relax and not worry about my usual chores because it's been so busy at work. Before we went to sleep last night he wanted to ML, but I didnt feel like it. I felt bad because I've said "no" twice in the last week and that's not at all like me. But, he didn't seem bothered by it. I think he's DBing me like crazy..lol. He said when I get home tonight (probably very late), he'll have a marguerita waiting on me and a fresh shave. Hmmm.. Anyway, we talked for a bit.. about him forgetting to take his meds. And he said, I've backed off it a little lately. And I asked if he had been skipping it. He said no, but he's only been taking one of each a day because his Psych was planning on cutting him back, but called and postponed his appt until Oct. H has been feeling like he's in a fog lately and very tired. Didn't know that He said he felt much better the last two days and his hands arent shaking as much. He's been constantly complaining that he has ADD and cant remember things like he used to. He said he thought it was the meds.. so, maybe they slowed him down a little much. Could be part of the reason why he's been wanting to do some things, but can't seem to get around to them.
Was totally taken off guard this morning. He called and said that he couldnt talk long because he'd been on the phone awhile with out sitter. She has plans tomm AM and cant watch the kids. H had decided to take the whole day off to go to Auburn (I didnt ask him to!). So, he called some friends and they are going to keep the kids until the sitter picks them up. Then he apologized for not having time to talk. He's been reading DR, so maybe he is DBing me. It's so out of character for H to see a sitch, deal with it and not call me a million times or complain about it.
I've been thinking of goals and realize that I have backslid terribly. I'm not mad at myself, but I know that I have to stay committed to working on myself and that this will happen in baby steps. I was thinking specifically of a goal where H is concerned. Something like, He'll express his feelings to me instead of passively venting them. And I realized that this happened on Tues afternoon and I totally blew it off.. misread his intentions, etc. He has told me in the past that he needs me to recognize when he shares his feelings and respond to that. He hasn't been good at it, and I evidently don't react the way he needs me to. Well, it happened on Tues. He had a bad day and was stressed and snippy. As soon as I walked in the house he said he was tired, was a long day, hectic at work, etc. I totally blew that off and thought "you think you've had a bad day? this is the busiest week of the year.. you're wanting to go out to eat.. if you're so tired how do you have the energy to go out, etc" When I realized how I handled that, I felt bad. I've asked him to share his feelings and not to just passively vent, but here was an occasion where he did, and he didnt get any response from me. No support, etc. I apologized to him for that this morning, and told him thanks for sharing his feelings. That he might have to be a little more squeaky if he can, but I definately see how I don't respond now and will try harder. I also told him that he's relieved a lot of my stress this week by taking care of things at home and not worrying me with it. He said "no prob".
Guess I should just keep focused on changing me and giving H space and time to do his part.
Had a great time at the Auburn Game. S19 looks fabulously healthy, handsome and happy! We stayed way too late and didnt get home until 3:30AM. He'll be home this weekend too and I'm definately looking forward to spending time with him, and his GF. This is her freshman year at college, so we're missing her too! I observed some interaction with him and H that was interesting. H hates to not know where he's going. S19 was giving him directions and with all the tailgaters he missed a turn and directed H into the RV parking lot instead of the street. H made a harsh comment to S19 about paying attention. And S19 said "Dad, I'm doing the best that I can. You can either accept my help, or get us out of this traffic by yourself" When H didnt answer, S19 asked him to answer so that he'd know if he should still give directions or not. When H said "Just tell me where to turn!" S19 said "Did you hear me? I'm not perfect. I make mistakes Dad. You're gonna have to bear with me a little" Seems my son is learning how to not let his Dad throw his anxieties off on him. Was a good lesson on addressing a sitch calmly and directly with H. He settled down after that. We know he gets nervous like that when he's driving, but he asks for help and if the help doesn't relieve his problem, he gets frustrated with the person who's just trying to help. Does this more than just with driving directions too unfortunately.
We had an awful convo on the three hour drive back home. H basically thinks I shouldnt feel the way I do about him working with OW.. or shouldnt have felt. Not sure how I feel about it now. I've just stuffed my feelings on the whole thing because I really don't have a choice. He told me that he could've left for another job (other than the one 80 miles away. I didnt know that), but decided it wasnt enough money. So basically, he'll take the job he wants when it's offered and expects me to be understanding in the meantime. I feel like he's totally blown off how I feel about it, and par usual will just do whatever he thinks is right and ignore, explain away, or find reasons why my feelings shouldnt be what they are. He said that he stays away from her at work and I should be patient and try to let him show me that I can trust him.
Of course I didnt keep my mouth shut. I said that I'm tired of talking to him and sharing my feelings and needs and having that ignored. The first time he moved back home I said that it would be hard for me to trust unless he ended his friendship with her and found another job. He didnt end the friendship, and now wants to know why I don't trust him. The second time he came home, when I found out they were still talking I said that I didnt think I'd ever trust or forgive unless he took steps right then to end their R and I was sure they had ended it. Again he refused and moved out. Well, I never did witness, hear, or know of them ending their R (except that he said they did because they argued), and he's still there. He has said himself that we'll never move forward as long as he's working there because I expect him to make that sacrifice to show me that he's serious about us and has totally rejected her. He says it, but when I agree, he tries to talk me into feeling differently. So here I am, not really caring at this point because I don't see him understanding how I feel.. I see him trying to manage how I feel.
Now I've come to grips with my feelings about him continuing to work there. I'm bitter and resentful, but I'm not anxious or afraid anymore that they're talking. I'm left with the feeling that our R will always have this ugly cycle in it. He won't consider how his actions affect his family and will tell himself that he'll deal with the problems and feelings later, but right now, he's going to do what he wants, or what is easiest. Basically "She'll get over it. She always does"
I've been to the Dr. this morning. I journalled about a health issue I had on Tues. I'm still dealing with that. I had some chest pains Tues night and thought I was having a heart attack. I've been having circulation problems and the sensation that my heart is pounding. Skipping a beat?? Tues I was in alot of pain and got very dizzy. I asked H to take me to the hospital. Then the pain subsided. H asked me to lay down and relax and that helped. I felt like I should get it checked out, but didnt really want to get everyone upset and call someone to sit with the kids. And H pointed out that I'm in shape, low cholesterol, eat right, etc..not exactly a heart attack waiting to happen at 38. I went to bed and was better Weds. I did say that he didnt seem very concerned and I wondered how much he cared about me, vs. putting everyone out to take me to the hosp.
Went today.. my feet and hands are very blue when Im not moving them. My chest has been hurting a little and my pulse got high for awhile yesterday. They did an EKG. It was normal, but the doctor said there was evidence of a past heart event on it (I'm hoping it was the machine or the Dr's interpretation). He wants me to go to a heart specialist this week. He said whatever it is, is causing the valves in my veins to not work quite right, but the blue hands and feet arent serious. I need to shake them and get the blood moving again. And to be sure to go to the hosp immediately if I start having chest pains or feeling "funny" again. So, all my DBer friends, say a prayer that this is just a minor thing. I probably need to cut back on caffeine, exercise more and not smoke. I have to admit I've wondered if the stress of all of this is taking it's toll. I've always been healthy as a horse and especially watch my diet for fat intake. I've been even more careful in that in the last few months because I'm an emotional eater and it can get out of hand quickly. Who knows.. I need to go take a nap and forget about it until I see the Dr!
Jeez-Louis, I'd say it might have a little to do with the stress.
I'm usually only a lurker on the boards, but I thought I'd throw you a warm fuzzy or something.
Take your doctor's advice! Next time your heart starts skipping a beat, and it's not because the man of your dreams has just knelt at your feet, get yourself to the hospital!
Sometimes these things don't have anything to do with your usual risk factors. Sometimes the wiring in our nervous systems is off and that's just as dangerous.
I'm so confused and it's making me waffle. On the one hand I can see that H is making positive changes. He's better mentally and he's HERE. A few months ago that didn't look like it would happen. No sign of OW at all, except he sees her at work. I finally have a grip on that and it rarely comes up. He's sending out his resume like a wild man. He says ILU a million times a day, is affectionate, helps around here.. is going to church.. reading more. Is talking about changes he is working on. 
We went last year and it was awesome.. just to see our son so grown up and having a blast is amazing. We get to hear all about what he's doing, but I love to see him in his element... with his friends.. so handsome in his uniform. Sigh.. I'm a happy Momma tonight! That and I can take him some goodies and cleaning supplies for his dorm room! 
he turned the webcam on the other night and OMG.. The boys loved it though. They were yelling at the computer like he could hear them. And they blew him kisses goodnight. I think a month is the longest we've gone without seeing him. So, it'll be good!