Hi Piglet... I'm curious about a couple of things you said. You mentioned that you two haven't had an R talk since Monday. 5 days doesn't seem too terribly long in between R talks. As a matter of fact, it seems pretty quick (this from a woman who between bomb drop and DBing used to have them every few hours ). Is there a specific issue that you want to raise with him? If so, then maybe schedule a time (with an end time) to talk it over.
Otherwise, are you looking for that giving and sharing that comes from conversation? If so, then maybe you should rethink that. The majority of men, and specifically men like our Hs (introverts) hate this kind of talk. So why not seek it elsewhere? Get together with a girlfriend to analyze and dissect to your heart's content.
Are you worried that things left unaddressed will fester? I certainly don't advocate leaving problems alone and hoping they'll disappear. But in your M, will talk achieve this? Or will behaviours? You two certainly seem to be behaving your way to a loving R. Must it be talked about for the sake of talking?
Your H asked you to snuggle in front of the tv tonight. That seems to be addressing LLs of Physical Touch and Quality Time, without any painful talks. That's a good thing, and probably a lot more healing for your M than more discussions.
You two seem to be doing so well, I just hope you can appreciate the positives in your sitch without derailing your efforts at building your marriage with efforts to "work on" your marriage.
I envy how well you and your H are doing!!! Hope you're cuddling right now (while I type alone boo hoo)
Is there a specific issue that you want to raise with him? If so, then maybe schedule a time (with an end time) to talk it over.
Golly.. no, there isnt a specific issue! Well, there are issues, but they are things that I've decided to wait out anyway because they involve him taking the initiative. And since I've dropped the rope on prodding him or reminding him of what needs to be done I'm not going to mention them. Right now, any attempt by me to get him moving in a direction might be seen as control by him. And any negativity is seen as me not giving him credit for what he IS doing. I've learned that the hard way! I guess the issue is that we are supposed to be talking regularly (we're using a conference table process suggested by the MC). And, H doesn't ever mention that we should have a conference table. Even if we don't discuss our R, there are issues we could talk about with the kids, finances, etc. And doing that with issues that aren't hot topics might help us to develop our communication skills for when we really need them in the future. Gonna have to be patient!
But in your M, will talk achieve this? Or will behaviours? You two certainly seem to be behaving your way to a loving R. Must it be talked about for the sake of talking?
You are brilliant Anna! And very right! Maybe part of my disappointment comes because the constant R talks became a habit.. a bad habit, but it connected us emotionally. We are interacting much more positively, but I think I'm craving the emotions that the R talks created. Gonna have to keep on behaving and recognize the level of contentment that's creating. I know for a fact that H feels much closer and more emotionally attached the last few days. He mentioned that tonight. He keeps saying how much closer we're getting. I feel like we're distancing because we're not talking, but he's feeling intimacy because he's starting to feel safe again. And you're right about men and introverts. I always think H isn't sharing what he's thinking and wonder.. but I need to learn that if he appears to be happy and peaceful, he is. Unlike me, his mind isn't going a mile a minute on 15 different subjects! What you see is what you get with him most of the time. I need to get secure with that.
You two seem to be doing so well, I just hope you can appreciate the positives in your sitch without derailing your efforts at building your marriage with efforts to "work on" your marriage.
Again, thank you. You are so insightful. Im gonna print this out and post it somewhere in plain sight! I need to quit worrying us into a crisis. We're doing just fine!
I wish so many great things for you Anna... I read your thread and see how you're making so many positive changes. Thank you for taking your time to post your thoughts, encouragement and advice. It's helped! (as I'm here typing alone too) Watching H veg out and watch ESPN.
Had a good day after a rough Sunday evening. I opened my mouth and got myself in deeper than I wanted to about the things that H is so passive about. Have to stop the cycle. Not gonna re-hash the convo I posted on Anna's thread about him wanting me to remind and prod him, make a list of things he needs to get done. But I will say that I thought about that a lot today. How to encourage him in taking responsibility and making time for things he wants to do, but feels like he is procrastinating on. So this afternoon, did a 180 instead of going down the list and reminding him (which he sees as nagging and controlling). He almost had dinner finished when I got home from work (Yay H!). I finished up and we ate. Afterwards I asked D11 to empty the dishwasher (H and I usually do that together, and it's time she learned to do her chores on a regular basis), asked S5 to gather up the trash (he did a great job!), then asked S5 to help S2 get his socks on and use the potty. H and I usually run around here doing everything for everyone, and the kids are getting old enough to do some stuff and help each other. Anway, me and the kids finished cleaning up and I told H he had some free time for himself. Loaded the kids in the van and we disappeared for an hour and a half. Had fun playing b-ball at the park, and shopping for a few things to send to S19. It was great for me and the kids.. we usually dont take off to the park much during the week and blow off steam together. I miss doing that.. we were rarely inside when S19 was little, but now it feels like we're always doing something to keep up around here. When we got back home, H was cheerful and relaxed. Helped me with the baths. D11 made lunches. Just a whole different routine for us. The H showed me what he'd been doing. I didn't tell him that I wanted him to do anything.. just said he had some free time for "whatever". He'd actually sat down and started thinking about our financial responsibilites and he talked to me about them a little. He also spent the time doing his bible study. It was great to come home to him relaxed and proud that he didn't need me telling him what to do, or how to do it. Maybe he just needs space and quiet to get it done. I asked him if that worked better than me reminding him or prodding him about what he knows he wants to get done. And he said "yeah, it worked out great. I had time to really concentrate on some stuff"
Feel good about today and that we're trying to do things in a way that works for both of us. I've also got off my butt and did a couple of things that I've neglected. A friend told me last week that I should be living as if H isn't here.. meaning, if I'd do something positive if we weren't together, I should be living the same way with him. So, I asked my boss if I could change my work schedule (would mean giving up my Thurs with H), and put an ad in the paper for carpool riders. 80 miles a day in that van is eating the gas! I hate to give up the thurs, but then saving the gas money would pay for a sitter on Sat. I also bit the bullet and decided that S5 can ride on the school bus to school with D11 instead of paying for 30 mins of before school care. It doesn't make D11 thrilled, but she'll get over it. Her older brother rode the bus with her, and there's no use putting out money that we don't have to. So, instead of blaming H for our tight financial situation, I'm doing what I'd do if I was single, finding ways to make it better myself. Feels good!
Im impressed! I can hardly sew a button. It takes a lot of patience to do that! Thanks for visiting the thread and leaving a note Hope things are going good in your neck of the woods!
Well, it's a BMA day here. I guess I'm tired. But H is working closely with OW today, so they can both KMA! For you guys on Anna's thread. Just that kind of day. I'm sick of dealing with this stuff and really want to go out after work and blow off some steam with my friends. Not sure why I woke up in such a mood (not angry, just I don't give a d*mn today, and have my cell on silent because I could care less if I hear from H today or not). He made the comment last night lying in bed that he wishes he could make me happy. Ughhhh.. yeah buddy, I wish too, but how about you row your boat and I'll row mine for awhile. It was more like an accusation when he said that. I know I haven't been the cheerleader he's used to. I know that it bothers him that I "light up like a light bulb" his words.. when S19 calls. Well.. guess what H, when I'm with people who don't screw with my mind and worry the crap out of me, I'm a pretty happy go lucky person! He always gets into a funk when he realizes that the sitch has brought me down. He's been prodding for awhile for me to return to "normal". So again, KMA.. I'm in the mood Im in. Deal with it. I'm fine.. not giving you any troubles, so if you feel guilty, deal with that too. Like I said before, I'm going to feel what I feel and be REAL. It's not like Im depressed and in the bed.. I just don't eat up all his blah, blah, ILY, blah, blah, I need you and take it to the bank like I used to. Just the expectation that I should be happy for him p*sses me off. Give me some space dude.. I'm OK.. focus on your own happiness for awhile and get off my back!!!!
Wheww.. needed that vent! Other than that, life is just spiffy! Had a great sexy dream about a former co-worker last night. Woke up saying.. wow.. yum. Wasn't really a sex dream. It was a situational dream. I've been thinking about it this morning. The thing that made it a sexy dream was that the guy I was dreaming about is someone that I've always had great conversation with. Personal convos, not about M, but about family in general, and I did find that attractive in him. The way he shared his life and feelings so openly. Not exclusively with me.. he's just an open, honest, engaging person.. no BS about him. Of course I've never thought of him in "that" way, but I find it interesting that my mind took me to that place in my sleep. I'm craving intimacy? I remember when I was just starting dating.. I had a MF that I hung out with. He lived on the air force base in my home town and we'd go lay out in the grass by the airfield and look at the stars. We'd just lay there staring up and talking. Was very, very intimate.. but just friendship. One night we stood up and he kissed me.. was an awesome kiss. Never dated that guy.. but I'll never forget how sweet that kiss was because it was brought about by truly sharing our hearts with each other. Havent had that with H in years.. if ever. We used to lay in bed at night and talk.. silly stuff.. singing songs from our high school years.. talking about our favorite cartoons.. stupid stuff we did. Now it's "what do we have to do tomorrow again? ILY (while thinking.. this sucks.. cant say that or he'll get p*ssed... I really wish I had warm fuzzies being here with him, but I just don't.. sigh).
Need to find my PMA and some spark!!! Been thinking about that article on 2much's thread that said "I love you but Im not in love with you" really means, "I care about you, but I'm not that excited about you". Im there. Send help!
Been thinking about that article on 2much's thread that said "I love you but Im not in love with you" really means, "I care about you, but I'm not that excited about you". Im there. Send help!
Finally an opportunity to help! I was running out of different ways to say "Dang, Sheila, you are kicking a$$!"
So here's your help, from my perspective. You care about him but you're not excited about him today. What's wrong with that? The only thing I can see wrong with that is some people panic and become susceptible to getting with somebody else who they *are* excited about. But the point of the article you mention is that love is a verb. So despite the fact that you're not excited about him, you'll love your H today.
And it's good to have those memories of excitement and affection; it gives you something to build toward and hope for in your R. You'll be in trouble if you start stamping out those feelings, memories and dreams because you've given up finding them with H. You had some similar feelings for him not long ago and they'll be back soon enough. He has to do some work meeting your emotional needs as well for you to feel really great about him a lot of the time and it seems like he's coming around to that, albeit a little slowly. So here comes the lame part of this post...hang in there!
Patience sucks rocks. But love is pretty cool.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
BB... My Hero! Thank you!! Was missing "love is a verb" And that's where I am right now unfortunately.. every day I have to decide to love H because I can't coast on those warm fuzzies. When I'm tired or stressed, it's hard to make the effort so my attitude suffers. End of the FY here and its CRAZY! Better watch my PMA and mouth the next couple of weeks.
Phone still on silent.. am sure I'd get some "Are you OKs!" from H and just get irritated. He did call my office phone awhile ago and said one of the guys that works with me came through the airport. And said to H "Sheila's in a great mood today" and rolled his eyes. LOL It actually cheered me up because the guy who said it is known as eyeore around here. He is dark and brooding.. great guy, but very sarcastic and dry. I love him BTW! I always greet him with my most cheerful hello just to hear him say "I want some of whatever your smoking" lol So I know that even though my PMA was BMA this morning, I was still maintaining enough PMA to get on his nerves..lol And it doesn't hurt H to be reminded that I work and interact daily with some pretty good looking guys either! Oops.. that was evil.
Thanks again Bud.. as usual, you're a prince! Patience sucks rocks, but love is pretty cool. LOVE IT!!
What do you do when you set boundaries in your R and find that with those boundaries in place, you really don't have much in common with your S? I can't say that about me and H and be honest. We have a life in common.. kids, history, etc, but kids grow up and history is history. I'm working so hard to detach from trying to live H's life for him, and not allow him to control my life either. Without that cycle and bond, there is a HUGE nothingness between us. Now to delicately build something there that is healthy and meets our needs. That'll take communication and compromise. It's like starting all over from scratch in a way. Patience. I'm in a place to step back and really observe what's going on here and it's lonely over here looking in.
H is often irritable in the afternoons.. he has a hard time adjusting to the transition of being at work to a house full of demanding children and responsibility. It's always been an issue for us. I scream home eager to see my family and relish the kids' stories.. the minute I walk in the door I can feel the stress peel off me. For him I know, it's the opposite. And since he gets home from me, he usually has one of the kids unhappy with some snippy irritable comment or another. It used to always be S19 that he took that out on. Now it seems its our D11. Today I came in.. she had tears in her eyes. She had changed into her AWANA shirt, which is green and didnt change her shorts. Well, they were bright neon green.. very clashing with the shirt..lol. who cares anyway? But.. not only did he insist that she change because they didnt match, but he said to her "Im tired of you always looking so messy" While she was telling me this.. she started tearing up and he insisted he didnt say that... or mean it. I would have in the past jumped right in and explained to him what a comment like that will do to a child (especially pre-puberty... a girl, coming from the most important male in her life), but I didnt. I hung back and let them work it out. I did tell him that it was the comment that hurt her so much. And, I suggested another pair of shorts if she wasnted to change, but said it was unnecessary.... painted her toenails and put her hair up and hugged her really, really tight until she was gasping for air..lol. Anyway.. he was irritated and took it out on all of us. I had to paint S2's fingernails too..lol (clear of course!), and when I finally got a chance to change myself, he got ahold of the polish (right under H's nose I might add). Well, H very loudly said "I'd like to get ahold of the person who gave this to him!" P*ssed me off.. but I maintained my PMA and said, well, it was me and I'm sorry.
I don't know why H can't just take responsibility for his afternoon stress and go off and unwind until he feels like he can be with people again. By the time he's through venting, the rest of us are suffering the affects of his BMA. But not today for me..not another day.. not another afternoon with my babies will I allow him to destroy. I can tell that he was even irritated that I didn't react to his passive b*tching.
Well, I've vented, but I'm thinking.. I dont even like this man half the time! His is passive, pissy, controlling (passively controlling.. I didnt use to think that was possible but it is), and self centered. He can be so sweet when he wants to be. But even that sweetness is designed to get him what he wants. And now that I'm determined to not react so much to what he is doing to manipulate, or his moods, the parts of his personality that are actually genuinely attractive to me are not much. Im hoping this is a frame of mind Im in, but Im afraid that without the challenge of "fixing" him, he won't keep my interest long. And not because I want to fix someone either. I'm realizing too, that unlike the past me, this me doesnt NEED a relationship to be happy and fulfilled. Sure I have needs, but to sacrifice who I am to get those needs met isnt worth it. Does that mean I'm maturing? Please, say it isnt so! I never intended to grow up, but here at the age of 38 I finally feel like I could live my life without someone to cling to. Someone to share it with would be wonderful, but if it means constant mental and emotional challenges.. I'm losing the energy for that.
All that said.. the biggest part of H gaining responsibility for his life is going to be him out who he is without me trying to define who he should be. I know a big part of what I don't like in his attitudes and reactions (for lack of a better word) is due to the effects of living with me and how I've been in this R. When all that falls away.. I'm interested to see who my H really is underneath everything he's invented to cope, and survive in this R. Wonder how long it'll take him to find himself? I'm not sure he knows he should even be looking.. right now he's stuck in the "get back to normal" mode with me. Well, normal is gone.
And dangit, if he had a problem this afternoon that he needed to discuss, why didnt he just discuss it? Why must he just vent his emotions, but never share them? When I'm in a bad mood, everyone knows it. Not because I take it out on them usually, but i'm very upfront with that if I know it's impacting how I interact with my family especially. I'll just say "It's been a rough day.. it's not you guys.. it's me. If I get too irritable, please let me know. That usually brings out the hugs and I feel much better. Why can't H OWN his feelings and his actions.. his opinions? What is so scary about letting the people who live with you know what's going on and how you feel about it? I mean, this morning I was in a BMA and impatient. Instead of bullying the kids into hurrying.. I explained that I was running behind, impatient and not likely to make extra trips back in the house to get something they've forgotten. They are sweet kids.. Ty gave me a big hug, and ya know, not one of them forgot something today. Gee whiz H.. if ya need something say it.. most of the time we WANT to make your life easier! lol... so glad I got that bonus vent in before bedtime!
I'm wearing my "It's ALL About ME Shirt Today"! I shoulda had it on yesterday I guess. Weds and Sun are BMA days for me. Not sure why, but it's a pattern. I've always had a prob with hump day. Then Thurs and Fri it's like I'm shot out of a cannon.. lots of energy and a great attitude. And this morning, I like H again. Poor man..I'm SO glad I didn't vent my frustrations and feelings on him yesterday. As much as I told myself that I didn't let his afternoon irritations control me, or affect me, I clearly do. Instead of trying to help ease his stress, I decided he was unlikable, therefore, not worthy of my efforts. Part of that is because I wasn't in a great place stress wise myself.. plate was full, but mostly it was an excuse for dealing with my stress. I had the worst headache last night.. it's become a symptom of not dealing with my fatigue and stress. And it's sinus season in sinus valley.. only makes it worse around here. H became considerably more likable than I am when we went to bed last night. He recognized the stress I'm under at work and how tired I am.. I was FAMISHED all evening.. grazing on everything, which is also a sign that I'm stressing. And true to the fact that he really does care how I feel, he decided to help. Why didn't I make that choice for him when he was stressing? I can say that I don't know what to do, but there were options. The other night taking the kids away for awhile helped him to relax and re-group. Last night was church night, but his youth were off at a concert and he decided to leave it up to the youth pastor to go with them. That should've been my first clue that he needed to relax and be by himself for awhile. He's always jazzed about being with those kids, but he didnt have it last night. We need to sit down and discuss this and what we can do to help each other through times when we are grouchy and tired. H did very well on his own. He got out the lotion and gave me a full massage before we went to sleep and reconnected with me. Smart man... it usually gets him what he wants..lol. And this morning I woke up ready to do the "love is a verb" thing again. Let him sleep in while I took the kids to school and I stopped at the donut shop because he has a Thurs donut habit. I cleaned up a bit and when he got up he said "Hey! Today was supposed to be your day to be pampered by me." I told him that he did a great job of pampering me last night and it's his turn. So, all's well when someone in the R gets their head out and tries to put the other person before himmself. I need to cultivate that talent and make it a regular habit! The more loving we are, the more loving we want to be because the results are instantaneous (not sure I've ever typed that word before!).
Anyway, I'm off to meet a GF for breakfast.. leaving H on his own this morning to do H stuff. Looking forward to a great afternoon with him. I know we'll be having an R discussion later, so I'm glad the day is getting off to a good start and I've shed my BMA.
). Is there a specific issue that you want to raise with him? If so, then maybe schedule a time (with an end time) to talk it over.
Watching H veg out and watch ESPN. 
I never intended to grow up, but here at the age of 38 I finally feel like I could live my life without someone to cling to. Someone to share it with would be wonderful, but if it means constant mental and emotional challenges.. I'm losing the energy for that.