Although it's rough to be proven wrong in your assumptions, your disbelief is there for a reason. It's going to take a while for the trust to return. On your end, while you are rebuilding it, you will need to act as if for the time being. Believe me, I too have the same suspicions and then guilt for having those suspicions, then I get angry at H all over again. I'm trying to have these feelings and ride them out quietly to myself or some trusted friends. I'm saving any sort of accusation when and if something does occur with OW that I would need to address.
We are both being unfair to ourselves. Why are we beating ourselves up because we still suspect our H's of dishonesty when that is what happened? My H doesn't want to hear that his dishonesty or secrecy as he calls it, has made me not trust him. I'm working to find ways of letting him know that without it blowing up into something else.
So as much as my entire being is telling me not to react when I feel that H is being dishonest, I'm trying incredibly hard not to do so. But at the same time, I'm also trying not to add to the problem by taking it out on myself through guilt.
You slipped yesterday but it seems that H was willing to overlook it or work through it. You mentioned that he called to test the waters. Were the two of you able to talk things over? In your R, are you able to do something like apologize and say that you are still struggling with trust but that this is something that you are working on? Maybe even finding ways that the two of you can reassure each other until you get to a point where the changes are permanent.
I'm curious about your R with your H. You mentioned that you had been divorced. Does this mean that this is the second time you and your H married each other? Can you fill me in a little bit on your history?
Although it's rough to be proven wrong in your assumptions, your disbelief is there for a reason. It's going to take a while for the trust to return. On your end, while you are rebuilding it, you will need to act as if for the time being. There's the tool I need! Thanks You are right, I'm so conflicted on this issue of trust. H has done a lot to feed that distrust, but I have helped create an atmosphere where he doesn't always feel comfortable sharing the truth. I am working very hard on this. He often tailor's what he does and says to avoid dealing with any conflict that'll cause. It's just been recently that I realize how my anger and responses effect him. He stuffs his feelings so completely that I never knew a raised voice, or angry word effected the way it does. In fact, I've raised my voice to just even to be able to tell that he hears me.. bad, bad idea. He is veryveryvery sensitive to what I say and do. I'm working on "The Dance of Anger" Aaaack. At this point in our R, H is ignoring his wants and needs for mine to avoid losing me or causing conflict. I agree that he has to help re-build trust, but to totally allow me and my emotions to run his life is NOT GOOD! Soo.. I'm seriously thinking about what I need to be doing and not doing right now. Basically, it's still an issue of control. If I can't find a way to just trust.. and trust blindly in order to give him freedom to live his life, we're going to self-destruct pretty quickly. I think it's going to be through my acceptance of him hanging out with his friends, not questioning where he is, and not expressing my feelings angrily that he is going to relax and be able to trust me with the truth again. As far as trust with OW goes.. well... I've said over and over that I don't think he talks to her anymore. He hasnt given me a reason to worry about that in 3 months.. he hasnt called her that I know of. And if he does really.. so what?? He comes home to me every night, calls me a zillion times a day, sleeps with me, ML with me, shares my life as he always has. If she is getting anything at all from him, it's nothing to talk or worry about. So then it's.. why won't I let go and trust? If I'm honest.. I think it's more of a control issue. Control from me so that I don't have to worry about him hurting me again. I can't control that.. I just like to think I can. I HAVE to let go. I HAVE to trust him unless he gives me a good reason not too.. I can't keep raising the bar on what he has to do, or how long he has to do it before I begin to trust him again. You're right.. I have to act as if until my heart follows what my head is telling me. I have to make this a non-issue between us because Im using it to control him, and he's allowing me to control him with it. And BTW.. it's controlling me too!! ugh.
Were the two of you able to talk things over? In your R, are you able to do something like apologize and say that you are still struggling with trust but that this is something that you are working on? Maybe even finding ways that the two of you can reassure each other until you get to a point where the changes are permanent. Yes, we did talk things over. He came home and gave me a big hug and told me he was sorry that happened. I apologized and told him that I should never assume like that. And then he praised me for leaving a couple of kind messages on his voicemail and not nasty ones. But, then he said he could tell I was angry when he finally got ahold of me. He joked around a bit about "well, I shouldnt be tired tonight since I didnt work all day" etc. Later, he started again and I asked him if he wouldnt joke about it anymore because there was a point after not being able to get ahold of him (and arguing with myself that he MUST be at work, but why would Tom tell me he wasnt) that it panicked me a bit. He said he understood. Before bed he laid with me and hugged me really tight and said that he just wanted to be close to me right now. That I scared the H*ll out of him. ???? I asked him to share and he said that after he hung up he was shaky because he gets scared that I am going to get so fed up that I leave and say it's over (because of all the feelings I have about him working with OW mostly). Then he said that he needs me to be patient and understanding while he is trying to find another job. He explained that he wants another job as bad as I want him out of there, but that he can't guarantee when it'll happen. I said I'd be patient, and I believe that I will be. The more I see how my negative feelings and interpreting what is happening to the extreme is hurting us, the more I'm determined to back off and trust him. The worst thing that can happen is that he'll prove himself untrustworthy.. the best is that we'll get over this hump that is keeping us from making progress.
And today, we got our cell phone bill. It makes me anxious. When he first asked me to add a cell phone to our plan it was so that he could keep in touch with OW and not run up long distance charges at his parents house. So, I view his phone as his primary means of contacting her. Here again.. an extreme. That was months ago. I have no reason to believe that he's talking to her, and he calls ME several times a day to say ILU, what's up? I need to let it go. I apologized for how I react and the questions I ask him. It frustrates him. I told him that I'm really trying, and that I know I shouldnt worry about who he talks to. he doesnt worry about who I talk to. It's a waste of time and destructive to our R. If he is going to have an A.. the truth will come out eventually, or it'll go away. He said that he understands and that it's going to take time. That we just have to continue to share our feelings with each other and talk about stuff so that we don't argue and carry around suspicions.
I'm curious about your R with your H. You mentioned that you had been divorced. Does this mean that this is the second time you and your H married each other? Can you fill me in a little bit on your history?
There's a thread running around here with detailed history. We've been together almost 18 years. 5 years ago, we were separated and divorced. H had an PA about 4 years into our marriage, and then I retaliated with one of my own. We lived in bitterness and resentment for awhile.. I think neither really caring what the other did, but not wanting to D because of the kids. Things got much better for a few years and we started re-building trust, but still not communicating well.
When I was pregnant with S5, H did a lot of irresponsible, dishonest things with money.. I thought he must be spending money on someone else, and asked him to move out. We divorced.. spent a year apart. I moved on an dated someone else for a few months.. and at our S5's first bday party, I realized that H and I were interacting just like H and W. We never dropped those roles with each other and we still cared for each other very much. We had become best friends. So, we saw each other for 6 months and he moved back in, but we didn't re-marry.
For the next 3 and a half years we got along so well.. never argued.. had a great time.. he was honest, I wasn't angry. I finally settled down and felt secure with him and he felt secure with me (I now know that he had some baggage from the R I had while divorced, but he said he has still been very happy). Those years have been the most joyful of my life.. settled, in love, happy. We had another child, and just enjoyed our blessings. But.. we still didn't corner the market on good communication. We just didnt have any major issues to deal with. Life was smooth.. no problems. I took care of finances.. we made enough money, no reason for him to hide anything from me.
Then S19 graduated from high school, and was going 200 miles away to college. H took it very hard. We all realized that he would, but since he doesn't share his emotions, we underestimated how hard it was for him to let go. In Jul last year, H lost his job for political reasons.. fired without cause. He's very good at his work, and it was a major blow to him. He said he felt as if he lost everything he was and had worked for the day he was fired (and he kept this news from me for a week and didnt tell me!). And then he stopped caring. The less he cared, the more he fell into depression. he was tormented because he didnt feel like he had about me either, but knew that he should. He says that I was doing everything I could do to be a good W (yeah, we're not married, but that's what we call each other)... and yet, he would be with me and the feelings werent there.
He started lying again and spending like crazy. After a few incidents that about drained the savings account, I gave him an ultimatum. Didn't work, so I asked him to move out.. and asked his parents if they could try to help him get back on track. It was honestly a choice between keeping a roof over our heads or not.
He wanted to come home, but I wouldnt let him until he started changing some things.. two weeks into it.. a friend convinced me that I was wrong and that H needed us to help him.. she gave me a list of MC names. I asked H to come and see the kids that Sat and he wouldnt.. I wanted to sit down and talk to him about counselling. Anyway.. he had decided that I was not going to ever let him come home and he was through with trying.
He accepted an invitation to go to a festival with some co-workers and ended up spending the night with a girl he works with. When he came to see the kids the next morning.. it was written all over his face. I told him about the MC.. and that I was willing to try..that I wanted him to try too because he was fast going down the road to self destruction (I wont even go into the financial mess he was getting himself into!). He said no.. that I just didnt want to mess up what he had going with OW. That night he called and said he changed his mind.. we talked for three days.. went to a MC and he dropped the bomb at the MC that he didnt really want to move back home.
We did that for a few weeks. I finally said, fine.. forget it.. if you won't try, then I'm not going to let you drag me through this.. come home or don't but stop calling me telling me that you love me, and then turn around and call her. He came home then, and agreed to cut off with OW. Well, he didnt of course. He moved out ten days later. They ended their R three days after that.
He was so miserable and depressed. I took him to the Dr. the first time he came home, but the meds werent working yet. I was terrified.. my H was not in that body... he felt nothing for anyone. I finally sat him down and had a heart to heart with him within a week of him moving out the second time. I told him that he was sick and needed our help. That I didn't know if we could/would fix things.. but that I wouldnt ask him to work on a R with me.. that I just wanted him to be better so that my kids could have a healthy Dad. That he could come home and sleep in the extra room, no pressure, until he got on his feet, and we'd take it from there. Two weeks later.. I'll never forget the day.. the meds kicked in. I could tell immediately. He was back in his body again and started having feelings again. They just came pouring out.
That is just a start though.. the issues still have to be worked through. I feel an incredible amount of guilt that I hold any of this against him because I know he's a sick man, and yet, I also know the choices we've made probably helped lead to the depression. The job loss was the last straw.. but the lack of communication contributed. That and H has always been very secretive, and I've been controlling. Long long history. It sounds like we should walk away from our R and cut our losses. But truthfully.. we get frustrated and hurt, but we don't hate each other. We don't argue and fuss all the time. And when I think of the good years we had.. I know that we have something very special. It's funny.. a lot of people post that their family and friends tell them to move on.. ours don't. Ours encourage us to stay together and always say that we seem to really love each other and go together. Maybe they are just afraid we'll be on the market and someone else will have to deal with us!! j/k
I'm just at a point where for the first time I'm willing to admit that I need to make major changes. I've blamed a lot on H and ignored how I contribute to our probs. I'm a good person and so is he.. we're just different. I've always been able to be the responsible, stable one, trying to do the right thing. But, that's not all true.. I have issues and I have to get myself straight or I'll never be truly happy.. even by myself. I'm hurt, but I'm also thankful that this has happened because I know we'll both come out of this better. Even H is talking about his feelings and trying.. which is AMAZING.
long and rambling as usual! There's a big bit on our history! lol
What's new with you? It sounds like you are making major DB progress.. how's the PMA?
Thank you for the background info. No apologies about the length, I could write a book with some of my replies if given the time.
My PMA is all over the place. I'm doing some really great work with my C on my self-esteem issues but my god, once I start to dig in they come crawling out of the woodwork. Actually, that's a really good visual! OPen up those parts of myself is like lifting up the damp rock and seeing what crawls out! Today, I feel really, really down. I'm not sure why?
My C pointed out that so much of my happiness is situation dependent. Lately, I have been feeling depressed because I think that I am doing a majority of the work, especially with myself and H is not doing much at all, especially on himself. Also, he's so negative so much. He complains all the time about where we live, stupid people, the state of the world... you get the pic.
I'm tired at times of being around someone who just complains but doesn't do much to change it and looks to others to provide his happiness. There, I said it! My H really annoys me when he is like that I really don't like him when he acts that way. I'm done with feeling guilty or trying to do a song and dance to get him to feel better.
I feel like crap and I am doing something to change and a lot of times, I still feel like crap! But I am doing something about it! God, I feel like so much of this can be avoided if I just stick to minding my own business most times.
So much of this stems, I think, from trying to do it all myself. I really need to drop the rope and make a list of personal goals that I would like to achieve.
I'm going to continue this thought on my thread before I totally hijack yours. I hope all is well with you today.
I also wanted to say that your sitch sounds like it is becoming more and more positive, in spite of the recent setbacks.
You wanna grab a cup of coffee? I relate to so much that you say. Has your happiness always been situation dependent, or are you in this frame of mind because of your current sitch? Just curious about that. I too feel like I'm doing the majority of the work and I get frustrated. I mentioned this to H and he agreed somewhat. R work is hard for him. Maybe he fears turning over those rocks! I expressed to him that I feel like if I never mentioned our probs again and just went along my happy little way, he'd be content and never mention a problem again himself and we'd go on with a bandaid on our R until we hit a bump in the road again. ??? We'll see. I'm growing weary of being the worker bee and am like you, I'm working on the things I need to change about myself. The prob is, when I do and detach I like my H a lot less. I love him, but I see his weaknesses and denial. I see how he says a lot, but still hides so much. Instead of growing closer to him, I feel myself pulling away. I've been sad about that. I was so crazy about him the last few years, and I'd like to look at him and feel the same way again. I think maybe I'm reacting to his neediness right now.. I don't like that needy, clingy place he's in. He tells me he loves me a million times a day and how beautiful I am, how he can't live without me, etc. I sound like a WAW dont I? I think it pushes me away because I feel guilty for not feeling those feelings for him right now. I love him.. an action verb.. it's just not that fluffy wonderful feeling of seeing him through rose colored glasses!
Lots of reading going on for me and trying to pinpoint how I'm sabotaging my situations. That's why I asked about how long your happiness has been situational. I had grown to a point (I thought!), where I lived my life joyfully. I remember being SO happy to just wake up every morning and my problems didnt take hold the way they do now and affect my outlook on life. Maybe because I was in such a secure place with my family life that nothing could shake me. Now that fear has taken hold, it's affecting how I see everything. Im tired of people asking if Im OK, or upset. That's a big indication of how I've changed in the last year.. I can't recall my friends worrying too much about my emotional health before. I was always the happy go lucky one.. the one everyone turned to when they needed cheering, or reassurance. Even my S19 and D11 have been asking if I'm OK, and that bothers me. I think I've retreated into myself for protection.
Burgbud recommended a book - "The Bonds that Free Us". I havent found a copy yet, but I did find a serialization of it on the web. I sat and read some of it last night.. very powerful stuff. Slowly, I'm weeding out what I need to change and trying to change it. That's all I can do right now.. live each day and try to live it honestly and honorably. My anger level has gone way down in the last weeks. It's turned into something like disappoinment. I'm beginning to see how rejected I've felt by H and how I've always had a fear of commitment because I fear rejection and hurt.
Yes Sikan, I too feel like crap, am doing something to change, and still feel like crap! Change is hard isnt it? Especially when it involves being honest about our flaws and what they create in our life.
But, I have a feeling that we're both going to turn a big corner in our PMA soon
You can hijack anytime! Not a prob at all. Is my sitch getting more positive? Yes, in a way. We've made progress on so much. On the other hand, taking an honest look at myself and our R is bringing alot of stuff up to deal with that I've denied. And I'm dropping the rope too. I've known that it has to be done, but I fear where it'll lead. I didnt initiate one R convo yesterday or mention ANYTHING at all to do with the last months. We were very busy so that was good. H was sweet, and worried because I wasn't my usual self discussing this stuff and letting him know where I am emotionally right now. But, we ML and it was sweet.. he seems happy anyway.
He's in a great mood this morning. It's our bi-weekly Thurs together and he just took the kids to school (way to go H!). I have to get off of here. We're going golfing, to lunch, and shopping in a little town an hour away. Should be a full, fun day for us!
I'll travel over to your thread later tonight. Thanks for sharing!
Halfway through the day and Yay me! I've just sat back and worked on my PMA and enjoyed the day with H! No R talks AT ALL.. wonderful! Had a shaky start with H asking what's wrong a few times and I asked him to please stop asking that because it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong. Other than that, we had a fun day together. Played 14 holes before it started raining and H was actually the one to say we needed to go and get on with our errands. Let him pick a restaurant.. he seemed pleased that I didn't want to go to one of the places I usually pick and was happy to go to Shoney's (egad!), but it was fine. He ordered dessert for us to share.. chocolate.. yum. Long drive.. no R discussions, no mention of jobs or OW.. yay. He got a weird cell phone call and he seemed nervous. He said wrong number, and I said, Oh. Got that one from you Sikan! Then we went to the pet store to get the boys turtles. He was like a little kid playing with the puppies and checking out the lizards. The lady let him watch her feed one of the lizards.. yuck. He was very carefree and smiling most of the day. Then we stopped and picked up rocks for the aquarium and came home and got the turtles settled. He made mention of some landscaping that we need to get done, and talked about how we might do that ourselves. Big thing that he even mentions that.. it's been on my plate of responsibilities for awhile. Anyway, he's off to get the boys and we have cheer pics in a few. Hope the evening goes well. H was very flirty and sweet today. He just seems to relax so much when I don't bring up what needs to be done, or anything negative. We even had to run and get S5 from school (sinus stuff), and he didnt blink an eye. And a 180 for me.. instead of us just staying at home and blowing off our plans.. we took him to the sitters for the day once we saw that he was fine, just a little stuffy. H didnt even get irritated that we had to leave the golf course, and spend an hour getting S taken care of. Maybe it's because I didn't overreact to the sitch and just blow our plans off? I caught him looking at me driving hom and asked "what"? And he said, "Ya know, you're a pretty good girl.. I love ya" Which, if you know him means, he was feeling proud of me.
If you lived anywhere near me, I would definitely take you up on your offer of coffee and kvetching.
I feel like you and I are so much on the same page with our sitches. Yesterday, my H spent the day alone or so he says... See, I'm not able to trust him and that fact alone is destroying me or at least I am letting it destroy me.
Yes, my happiness has been situation dependent for I think most of my life. Changing that is where I am right now. However, what does that mean for my sitch. Like you I have seen many many positives in my R but how many are those because I've gotten better at compromising with someone who then doesn't have to change?
I'm afraid that my H will never get over his secrecy issues and I sometimes think that DB only enforces them. Don't get me wrong, I think that DBing helps our most Rs tremendously but I do think there needs to be HUGE considerations when it comes to co-dependent Rs, Rs with alcoholics or the depressed. Many of the DB techniques seem to enforce bad coping behavior in WAS.
I absolutely HATE the fact that I have to raise the issue of my H's secrecy with him but to be honest I don't want to live with him again until that has been addressed. I need to find a way to do that!
My H knows of my discomfort with sitches like OW and his secrecy but it's still going on and I only know that because I spied on him! I refuse to continue with these underhanded control games he and I play. I need and deserve an R that is founded on trust and is transparent!
So where to begin? Days like yesterday really screw around with my head. Do I just put that to the side and act as if?
I'm not sure sometimes where I'm headed with all of this. I have a session with my DB coach on Monday. I will ask her for more concrete advice on how to move beyond these upsetting times.
I'm kind of overwhelmed today and it doesn't help that the East Coast is hit with a really gross indian summer heatwave. This kind of heat makes me feel really cranky and claustrophobic.
I have some work to do over the weekend. I have a freelance project that I need to finish. Then I am starting on a dress for the wedding next weekend that H and I are going to for one of his employees. I'm going to see a show tonight with H and maybe spend some time in the pool. I wish I didn't have to do freelance but until I start to get my debt and spending under control, I still need the extra income. Visit my thread next week for more updates on the two issues of concern in my R: secrecy and finances.
Anyway, sorry for the long reply. I hope that you have a great weekend and some good downtime with your H!
Holy Moly.. secrecy and finances! Same, same for me sister! Just in case you're interested, here's a link to the "Bonds that Make Us Free" serialization.
There is just something about what Terry Warner has to say that hit the nail on the head for me. Maybe it was just time for me mentally, but maybe it's because it's so applicable to my sitch and personality. My PMA is getting a huge lift lately because of MY change in attitude. I'm giving H credit for the effort he's making, and it's a big deal that I even notice the effort because I've been ignoring that and focusing on what he hasn't changed yet. And also, I don't feel as invested in what H is doing.. i.e., I know he's the way he is.. I'm concerned, but I personally will be fine and BTW, I might just be able to live with his faults to a certain extent. I know cheating is out and lying, but if he was to tell a little fib to make himself feel better and it wasn't about something that would royally bite us in the butt emotionally or financially, I'd probably let it go. I'm starting to see how I use situations against myself and interpret them to fit my purposes. For instance.. if he lied about going straight home from work like he did last month, today, I'd probably say "well, he changed his mind at the last minute, or changed his plans". A month ago I was saying that he intentionally did something that he knew would hurt me, and that must mean that he didn't care about me or love me. And even though I now know that he was aware of my feelings and didn't care that I asked him not to meet this friend after work Mon-Weds, I now see how it shouldn't have mattered if he met his friend and how unreasonable I was being. I don't blame him for rebelling against my control by doing exactly what I asked him not to do. And I know too that it is unfair for me to use that situation to say that he doesn't care about me or love me. Clearly, he might not have been acting caring that day, but that doesn't erase all the ways he DOES care about me and love me on a daily basis. My measure cannot be that he loves and cares for me perfectly in every way or I refuse to believe it. That is failure waiting to happen.
If you want to and get a chance to read any of the link, let me know what you think.
I wish I could give ya a big hug on the distrust issue. I know, I know I know. But, I see that you say "letting" it destroy me. Big step in the right direction. There is a way off this emotional roller coaster.. slowly but surely we're both going to get to a place where we are strong and happy. And I bet once we get to that place with ourselves, we'll begin to see our Hs getting there too.. if not, we'll at least know that our lives are not defined entirely by their problems!
Love the long replies.. they give me food for thought!
What kind of freelancing do you do? And you can sew too? A woman of many talents I see! Hope it all goes swimmingly for you and you get to relax this weekend too!
Yesterday was another good day for us. It was a frustrating day for me. Taking a good hard look at myself and admitting the ways that I hurt our relationship makes it impossible for me to deny that I need to change. Changing thoughts and actions is tiring and what would be easier to do is go on autodrive and be the self I've been. That's a habit I don't have to think about or work too much at. On the other hand, it's freeing to know that I have a choice to be happy or miserable each day and that I do have control. Not control over others, but control over myself. I've always tried to control what others do and in the end I've let myself be controlled by what they do or don't do. If H doesn't do a certain thing, I either get in there and do it or devise a complicated plan for getting him to do it. It's so much easier to create the results I need in my life without depending on him to take action. When I focus on his needs, my needs are often met naturally. Not always, but they also don't become such a source of misery for me. If I need to feel loved and appreciated, instead of waiting on H to show me love and appreciation, I can get to work on loving him in the way he needs. That generates a positive for both of us.. he gets his needs met and in return is loving and appreciative of me. That's a better cycle for us than we've been in. We've been in a cycle of waiting, expecting, protecting ourselves, blaming, manipulating, retreating and sulking. That's not love.. that's control.
I'm also learning to ask for what I need and not feel guilty for needing it. I've posted on the sexual problems board that I'm having difficulty when we ML. H is aware of the prob because I've mentioned it vaguely, and he told me that he also read my post on the board. Things have been fantastic for us physically. H has a desire that he hasn't had in the past. It's scary at times because I'm afraid I won't be able to satisfy that desire. He has in the past been passive that way too with me being the initiator and feeling unloved when he wasn't in the mood. Now he's all about sex.. and would you guess that I could find a problem in that too?! Yup.. that's me.. I want what I want. So, I've let it bother me that he's changed because I suspect an ulterior motive that isn't there. So now I tell myself that it's great he's h*rny all the time, but it's just a physical need, not an emotional need.. not based on love but sex. So, he's coming out of his shell and sharing his desires very openly, but I'm interpreting them in a negative way. ex: he only cares about his sexual needs.. it's all about the sex..it's all about the pleasure.. it's not about intimacy or love. I want to be held and cherished. I even asked him the other night why he doesn't hold me tight like he used to and why doesn't that "do it" for him like it has in the past. I've been having this thought process for the last couple of months every time we ML. Instead of focusing on what he says that is so loving, I pick apart what he's doing to prove to myself that he's just satisfying his physical needs. I tell myself that he desires me because I've lost weight and look great right now, not because he cherishes me as his lover and has an emotional bond to me. Well, I know that I'm wrong in that. And I'm sorting out why I do that to us. I even go as far as to do things that feed my negative thoughts.. talk about manipulative. I'm not going to go into details, but I know what excites him and do those things to prove that he's only physically involved. I could take it down a notch and hold him.. and be more loving in bed, but instead I create a situation that proves to myself that my problems when we ML are his fault. AAAAAAAACCCK! We bought an erotic massage book a few months ago and it's been sitting unused. That is proof that he isn't interested in a deeper connection.. that he hasn't looked at the book and we haven't tried any of the techniques feeds my feelings that he only wants sex in a physical relationship with me. Well, last night I decided that it's time for me to stop blaming him. I asked him if we could get the book out sometime soon and learn to give each other massages. Of course he said, Sure!! It's time for me to admit that he loves me deeply and that I'm the roadblock to intimacy. I've no doubt that if I don't stop myself, I'll pick apart anything we try with the massages to prove that he's not really interested. Well, this time I refuse to play the victim and I'm going to do things differently. I'm going to accept his love and be open to an intimate connection with him even though I fear that connection. Tonight, he'll be watching football. I'm telling myself this up front so that I won't be surprised when we're up late and tired. I'm not goint to use this to prove that he isnt interested in the massages if we don't get to that tonight. He's said, Sure!, and that means what it means. If it takes a month for us to find time, that's OK. I'm not going to mention it at a bad time just to sabotage it!
And positives: H called me and asked me to print out his resume and edit a cover letter for him. He talked with a guy that used to work for him and their company is hiring. They gave two of his friends a job very quickly and the pay is great. He also found out that a job that he's been waiting to be announced publicly has been announced. The man who's doing the hiring has his resume and might give him a call for an interview soon. H did all of this without me mentioning a new job once! I didn't push him to mail the resume last night, I just sat it on the desk and told him it's there. Not gonna get my hopes up, but knowing that he doesn't need me to push him to look for a job makes me happy. I also know that I won't push him to take the wrong job for him.. what a relief!
I haven't initiated any R discussions, or given him anything to read this week. I haven't seen him working on our materials for MC. We've had a few weeks off and should go again on Mon. Well, last night out of the blue he said "I've been doing some reading" and I said "that's good.. is it helping?" And he said "yes, but I need to do more" I didnt respond to that and just gave him a hug. Then he asked me if I wanted to say a prayer with him. I've been disappointed that we haven't been doing that, and he also hasn't been saying prayers at dinner or with the kids, but I haven't mentioned it. H has said that he knows what he needs to change and improve, but has a hard time following through. I accuse him of not caring. Just that he wanted to say a prayer with me shows me that he does care. He's struggling I know.. but at least he isn't struggling to manage my control over what he's doing. It was nice to pray with him. It was nice to accept that and not start pointing out that we need to be doing our bible study together and praying with the kids. He knows that without me saying it, and he doesn't need my pressure on top of everything. I also don't need to use his passiveness as an excuse for me to not be doing these things. I told him once that I wasn't going to study the material until I saw him do it.. ummm.. can you say "cut your nose off to spite your face?" I want to study it, so I am. If it encourages him, then wonderful.. if not, then at least that will be one more thing that I don't allow him to control in me. Why I would do that in the first place.. allow my R with God to be dependent on him, or to be an indication of how much or little he's committed to our MC? Well, because I've been hell bent to prove that I'm the only one who wants this to work, and am willing to do what it takes. And, if he doesnt care and wont work, it wouldnt be my fault if it fails now would it? I'd be completely justified in not committing to him and re-marrying him in the future. I guess we can all see that the real obstacle to my happiness is ME.
Well, H just called. The game starts at 2:30. I stopped last night and picked up some beer. Yeah I know, sex, bible study and beer...lol. We don't drink very often, but I know he likes to relax and have one or two when watching football. He'll walk in the door from work about kickoff time. He asked if it's bad that the game starts at that time! Ugh... I guess he was anticipating that I'd be disappointed that he wouldnt want to go and do something with the kids this afternoon. Poor guy.. time for me to work a 180! I said, "no it's not bad! I'm glad you told me so that I can make sure the food is ready when you get home" Then he asked if I'd sit and drink a beer with him. I said sure and he sounded happy about that. I'm gonna get off here and take the kids to the park for awhile. S2 wants to go find a red Care Bear too! I bet the boys will be tuckered out and ready to nap during the game. I think it's the start to another good evening together And I just bet that after the game he'll be ready to spend some family time with the kids... wouldnt that be wonderful? OH, and another 180 for me. Instead of sitting with him while he was relaxing last night and feeling like we should be spending some time with the kids. Big issue for me.. after bath time I want to connect with the kids and he's ready to chill out. He gets his time in the afternoon and plays with them after school and while I'm making dinner. I've never really realized that before.. I've always been perturbed that he wants time to himself when I think he should be wanting family time. I guess I've felt torn between spending time with him relaxing and being with the kids. I curled up with the boys and watched a care bear video and read to them before bed. H came and found us and said.. "how sweet is that?" Then he and I had some time together after they went to sleep. And I stayed up with D11 for awhile after H went to bed. A happy relaxed night for all of us. That's much better than me spending time with him and resenting it because I want to be with my babies.. or feeling guilty that I'm not giving him attention that I "think" he needs. Oh how the tide turns when we pull our head out of the sand!
Gawd this place is becoming my home away from home! Well, at least I'm keeping my lips zipped here and out of trouble! Was a good afternoon. H came home and relaxed and watched the game. I watched a little, surfed the web, and putzed around the house. He's very very relaxed today and silent. We havent said much to each other at all. He's given me a couple of hugs and said ILY. Positive attitude towards the kids and ran interference while I talked with my Mom on the phone and gave them a bath later. S2 was being a handfull and H jumped right in. He said we could cuddle and watch a movie when they go to bed. D11 is at a friend's for the night.
No R talks in sight. Did I say earlier that I told H if I just shut up, pretended everything was OK, he'd go along and act like nothing has happened the last few months? Well, we're there now. He hasn't even mentioned my change in attitude at all, or how well we're getting along, or that we haven't discussed us since Monday. Not that I want to go back to the negative R discussion we were having. They weren't very productive really. But, it looks like without them, we won't be having much discussion about us. I'm trying to be patient, but fear that we'll be back to the R with a bandaid on it. And, a silent R at that without H ever discussing his feelings or anything that's not purely job, kid, or house related.. superficial. Sigh... Maybe he's just enjoying the break. I know that my attitude has created a lot of our problems. But H is still H.. passive and introverted. I'll no longer try to "make" him communicate with me, or retaliate because he chooses not to. And since he doesn't have to convince me to not be upset or that things are gonna get better.. he's not communicating. We did the thing from.. hmm.. can't remember. The questionaire from the marriagebuilders site that tells you what your most important needs are. H's came out that he needs me to take care of the house, be a good Mom, and fulfill his sexual needs. I was disappointed that his needs didnt include honesty, communication, or recreation in the top five. the other two were affection and I don't remember the other one. I remember thinking.. this makes perfect sense.. no wonder we don't communicate.. he doesn't need a RELATIONSHIP with me.. he needs someone to clean his house, take care of the kids and screw him every once in awhile! Which is what he had when he didnt live here. So, sigh.. I'm impatient. And I really want to be with someone that I can talk to and confide in. He doesn't even ask what I'm reading, where I am emotionally, what I'm feeling.. nothing personal. All I have to do is smile and that's good enough.. that I don't intrude on his peace. Well, like I said.. I'm impatient. Maybe it'll come when he sees that the changes in me are gonna last. Or maybe that's just H and I'm going to have to suck it up and accept that's just the way he is. Either way, I'm not going to let it ruin my happiness or put me back in the frame of mind that I was in. I have friends that I can talk to, and I can always come here and bore the h*ll out of everyone with my self centered ramblings!..lol
Gonna watch a movie.. wish we were getting that massage book out! Should I mention it? hmm hmm hmm Maybe I'll just lay it on the dresser and see what happens!
You are right, I'm so conflicted on this issue of trust. H has done a lot to feed that distrust, but I have helped create an atmosphere where he doesn't always feel comfortable sharing the truth. I am working very hard on this. He often tailor's what he does and says to avoid dealing with any conflict that'll cause. It's just been recently that I realize how my anger and responses effect him. He stuffs his feelings so completely that I never knew a raised voice, or angry word effected the way it does. In fact, I've raised my voice to just even to be able to tell that he hears me.. bad, bad idea. He is veryveryvery sensitive to what I say and do. I'm working on "The Dance of Anger" Aaaack. At this point in our R, H is ignoring his wants and needs for mine to avoid losing me or causing conflict. I agree that he has to help re-build trust, but to totally allow me and my emotions to run his life is NOT GOOD! Soo.. I'm seriously thinking about what I need to be doing and not doing right now. Basically, it's still an issue of control. If I can't find a way to just trust.. and trust blindly in order to give him freedom to live his life, we're going to self-destruct pretty quickly. I think it's going to be through my acceptance of him hanging out with his friends, not questioning where he is, and not expressing my feelings angrily that he is going to relax and be able to trust me with the truth again. As far as trust with OW goes.. well... I've said over and over that I don't think he talks to her anymore. He hasnt given me a reason to worry about that in 3 months.. he hasnt called her that I know of. And if he does really.. so what?? He comes home to me every night, calls me a zillion times a day, sleeps with me, ML with me, shares my life as he always has. If she is getting anything at all from him, it's nothing to talk or worry about. So then it's.. why won't I let go and trust? If I'm honest.. I think it's more of a control issue. Control from me so that I don't have to worry about him hurting me again. I can't control that.. I just like to think I can. I HAVE to let go. I HAVE to trust him unless he gives me a good reason not too.. I can't keep raising the bar on what he has to do, or how long he has to do it before I begin to trust him again. You're right.. I have to act as if until my heart follows what my head is telling me. I have to make this a non-issue between us because Im using it to control him, and he's allowing me to control him with it. And BTW.. it's controlling me too!! ugh. 
under control, I still need the extra income. Visit my thread next week for more updates on the two issues of concern in my R: secrecy and finances.
I know, I know I know. But, I see that you say "letting" it destroy me. Big step in the right direction. There is a way off this emotional roller coaster.. slowly but surely we're both going to get to a place where we are strong and happy. And I bet once we get to that place with ourselves, we'll begin to see our Hs getting there too.. if not, we'll at least know that our lives are not defined entirely by their problems!