I've been reading about these interactions and trying to figure out how to say what I wish to add without coming across as an a$$ or stepping on your happiness. But you are a big boy and know I wish nothing but the best for you and everyone here. That said, I am compelled (my addiction) to offer my analytical perspective.
Maybe it is just me who is confused and this is a distinct possibilty, but aren't you divorced? Didn't she want out of the marriage? Weren't you and your kids horrible to her kids? Wasn't this a HUGE sticking point of the M?
Why does she allow her son to spend the night if you are your kids don't treat him and the others fairly? Why are they there what seems to be a fair amount?
Why is she calling all the time? And coming by and spending hours there? And doing work around the house? And why is she at the house when you are not there?
I guess I am completely missing something. But I thought she wanted out of this deal?
My feeling for whatever it is worth, is you guys have never really been divorced, separated or apart from each other. Wasn't the D final within the last six months?
There was no transistion for either of you from married to separated to divorced to single. You were pursuing her, now she is pursuing you. There has been no long (I mean months even weeks) of no contact, no calling, no talking several times a day, no seeing each other, no invites, no intiating.
Sure, you said you were not going to, but . . .
From the outsiders viewpoint and I have only your version, there has been no divorce.
Clearly you love this woman and she loves you and in some non-traditional method you are finding each other again and this is ultimately what you want.
But I worry and by your own admission you are falling into the same place again.
Quote: Maybe it is just me who is confused and this is a distinct possibilty, but aren't you divorced? Didn't she want out of the marriage? Weren't you and your kids horrible to her kids? Wasn't this a HUGE sticking point of the M?
Why does she allow her son to spend the night if you are your kids don't treat him and the others fairly? Why are they there what seems to be a fair amount?
Why is she calling all the time? And coming by and spending hours there? And doing work around the house? And why is she at the house when you are not there?
I guess I am completely missing something. But I thought she wanted out of this deal?
My feeling for whatever it is worth, is you guys have never really been divorced, separated or apart from each other. Wasn't the D final within the last six months?
I can't argue with any of that. This is the strangest divorce, because as you said..it doesn't look like one.
But there is a difference now. I feel like she's the one pursuing, which is a pleasant change. She called this morning, just to see what we were doing. Then later to see if her son could come over. When I went to pick him up, she seemed to want me to hang out. She's called since to see about supper. She seems almost disappointed or angry or something at me that I'm not chasing her. Maybe the kiss was supposed to make things different.
Oh well, I don't know Bruce. She rushed this divorce along even though she kept admitting to be confused about it and having second thoughts. Perhaps she's still having second thoughts. I do think things are moving in a positive direction, but given our weird relationship, I don't have a feeling as to whether I'm close to my objective or a mile away. Do you?
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I'm sure you're all sick of me and my postings, especially since it's just more of the same. She came over tonight to watch a movie. She took the dog for a major walk while I was playing catch with my son. Then I made dinner for everyone. After that we watched a movie. During that I gave her a backrub which she appeared to enjoy. I ended with the massage on her face. I probably shouldn't have, but I kissed her, several times. She didn't jump up and leave, we just sat on the couch together and watched the show. She left before it was over, but didn't go like she was mad or uncomfortable, just that she was tired and it was getting time to put the kids to bed. More to follow, but I need to go open a dictionary and learn what the word patience means because I don't think that's what I've been practicing.
Me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Wes - You and your XW seem a lot like me and my XH. We got D and that's when he was finally able to let go of some of the past, which lead us to getting back together. We were never really "single" either. We dated other people some, but not really because even then we were still there. So while it may seem kind of strange to some, I know where you're at.
I do have a question for you. I've noticed a common thing in your last few postings. When you and XW are together you keep saying that you can't "talk". What are you wanting to "talk" about? Don't focus so much on being able to talk or not, just enjoy the time your spending with her.
I know when XH and I were in this stage my biggest fear was that things would go back to the way they were before and I would be hurt again. Only you can decide if you're willing to take that risk or not. For me, I'm still not sure if it was worth it or not (with everything that's going on right now). But if you don't think you can take that risk, then I would stop this right now.
Quote: I know when XH and I were in this stage my biggest fear was that things would go back to the way they were before and I would be hurt again. Only you can decide if you're willing to take that risk or not. For me, I'm still not sure if it was worth it or not (with everything that's going on right now). But if you don't think you can take that risk, then I would stop this right now.
Hope, I'm not scared I will be hurt again and by my actions I think I am willing to take the risk. If she suddenly quits coming by, seeing me, or says "no more hugs", etc I will be disappointed, but not hurt. Part of me says this is the right direction we are going and wish it to continue and progress, but I understand that my expectations and hers could be completely different. I realize that despite the positives, we could end up not together. In fact, because we're divorced, it seems like the odds should be against being back together. Perhaps we're both just spending time, but the more time she risks spending with me, the more chance she'll fall in love with me (or realize she already was). Does that make sense? I'm really not holding a whole lot back at this point. I show my feelings, just don't say them, except I have largely quit initiating the calls, etc. I'm trying to go at her pace.
I'm trying to figure out where I said we couldn't talk. Sometimes she takes small jabs, but I'm not sure if it's just kidding or if she has a little resentment about something. And we don't talk about our R at all. No more "we can be good together" stuff or "give us another chance" talk. I think whether she acknowledges it or not, she is giving me another chance. When we talk, it is really relaxed and easy, just like being married before the difficulties. It's just that we don't communicate by e-mail or by phone much anymore.
And as I say that, she called this morning and we talked for a half hour or so about the movie and about her kids. It was a nice convo; not strained.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Analysis is all great when you're trying to figure out the stock market or demographic trends, but it begins to suck in relationships after awhile.
Quote: And we don't talk about our R at all. No more "we can be good together" stuff or "give us another chance" talk
Cool. Don't. The time may come when you will talk about the old R but it isn't here yet for sure. I'm sure you know that, but I just thought I'd chip in with that.
Is it possible you can just enjoy time with XW naturally and not worry about your next move (or hers)? Maybe you can just be instinctual about that. Do what your non-intellectual part suggests. After all, if this is ever going to work out, you can't be having to plot your every move for the rest of your life.
Maybe I am missreading what you are doing, but like me, it seems like sometimes you think too damn much.
Quote: Is it possible you can just enjoy time with XW naturally and not worry about your next move (or hers)? Maybe you can just be instinctual about that.
Part of the time things are natural, in fact like we are still married, but the other part, especially when she just arrives or calls, I am conscious of my words and actions. I must say that it is getting better. When I reached the point where I didn't want to act mysterious or busy when I wasn't, things felt more natural to me. I'm still myself while I'm around her, just cognizant of not pushing the envelope in some areas, especially physical, and in addressing her love language even if that doesn't feel natural to me. But that will become more a second language over time. But I agree, and I'm sure Bruce would second, I think too damn much.
Okay, here's my update: X called during work to tell me of an accident her son had on the playground. After work I called to see if he was doing alright and he was, so I just basically said "that's good, see ya later".
She had indicated earlier that her son wanted to come over, and since I hadn't mentioned it, I guess I felt I didn't want her to have to call back and bring it up (although I should make her work for it). So I called her and asked if he was coming over. She said "he wants to", so I said he could and that if they wanted dinner that they were welcome to come over too.
So they all came for dinner. It was relaxed. She helped with the cooking and clean up afterwards which is a major change. At her worst point she had ditched all that and would have sat around looking at the computer while I cleaned up. It was an opportunity to have a more "natural" interaction, although I smiled inwardly at the irony of this little family dinner thing.
She hung out for an hour or so after dinner. We talked about her daughter's difficulties in school which never do seem to get figured out. Her daughter had homework so they busted it out of there even though her D asked if she could stay over. Yesterday when I was making dinner she indicated that she wanted to come back and live here, but didn't want to leave her mom. I didn't say much of anything because my words definitely wouldn't help because I was still thinking "well your Mom needs to get off the snide and just admit she loves me".
Oh, one other thing of note: She said she had a big favor to ask. I was hoping she wanted sex (and was prepared to tell her that wasn't such a big favor), but she asked if I'd watch her kids if she went to this concert. I said I'd have to look at my schedule first because I was still trying to work out a football game with my brother, but would if I was available. She kind of flip-flopped around with some other possibilities of who could watch them. I said "Don't worry about it. It's not that big of an imposition, I just need to know whether I'm going to be around then." Funny that I would ever be asked to watch the kids since she left ostensibly because I was such an ogre to her kids (as Bruce reminded me).
I do need to say that I do need a day or two of no contact. My detachment is in the toilet and I'll lose patience. I need to regain both. I mean, last night and this morning she's been too much on my mind and I'm thinking about things (like going to concerts and being susceptible to OM) that I shouldn't be worried about. I mean, I was actually wondering if by next month whether we would be more of an actual couple and I could be more reassured about her being faithful to me. We are divorced, so what the h@ll am I thinking? That's what I need to shake off.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
If you need a few days to yourself, maybe you should just tell her. "XW, I've had a really good time with you and the kids lately, but I really feel I need some me time. But how about we get together on (insert a day one or two or so days from now) and do X, Y, or Z with the kids?"
Just because you two are getting along well doesn't mean you should take care of your needs too.
Thanks for the advice. I know I need to take care of my needs and at the very least won't be initiating tonight or tomorrow. I've got some things that need finished around the house and I might try to go out with some people with work tonight.
Quote: "XW, I've had a really good time with you and the kids lately, but I really feel I need some me time. But how about we get together on (insert a day one or two or so days from now) and do X, Y, or Z with the kids?"
Not sure I can do this. Thinking so far in advance seems a little too much pursuit at this point, although a vague..."we should do x,y,z with kids sometime or this weekend" would be more up my alley and show that I am interested in continuing to do things with them. I don't think I'll say the part about having a good time with you lately (even though it's true).
Anyway, minor update. We were slow this morning getting out of the house so X dropped by for her son before I had left. Maybe I was waiting hoping for kisses? Anyway, she came in and got some coffee. I came up to her and hugged her and held it for quite a while, perhaps part of the time with a little sexual undertone.
I told her "you look nice, as always." She asked "As always?" And I said "Well, almost always." "Almost always?" Kind of ribbing me. I laughed it off and said yeah, but added "actually you always look good" and let my hands wander down a bit.
I did call this morning and tell her it looked like I'd be able to watch the kids if she wanted, but we needed to work out something for the day they have off from school that I have to work.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: I do need to say that I do need a day or two of no contact. My detachment is in the toilet and I'll lose patience. I need to regain both. I mean, last night and this morning she's been too much on my mind and I'm thinking about things (like going to concerts and being susceptible to OM) that I shouldn't be worried about. I mean, I was actually wondering if by next month whether we would be more of an actual couple and I could be more reassured about her being faithful to me. We are divorced, so what the h@ll am I thinking? That's what I need to shake off.
You knew this would bring the mechanical pencil out. HUH?
You want no contact for a day or two but want to be more like a couple?
I repeat. HUH?
You are a couple, but sometimes, ok most of the time you act nothing like a couple and then others, when you are divorced and detached you spend all your time together.
You are falling again, but instinctively whether you admit it or not, afraid of something, so there is this need to pull back, detach, have no contact, but that won't happen, because you are too afraid of what will happen if you don't have contact.
And though you like her intiating the contact, you feel like you have no control over the situation and you don't. The whole relationship is one swirling maelstrom and you don't know how to get out or get your feet dug in to survive or if you even want to be in there, but your actions suggest you do.
