As for my saying that you can't imagine starving... I think you misunderstood me:
No I do not feel that I misunderstood you. As I stated earlier just because we starve for different things does not mean we do not share the same feeling of hunger. We just crave different types of food.
I'm NOT saying you should be satisfied. Did you hear that? No I said since I have the food you crave I should be satisfied you did not say it. It was me conceeding to what you are saying instead of running in circles.
The sitch you describe is not a healthy, nuturing, growth-supporting sitch. Though true what you say, The sitch I describe is not all reality either. It is my perception of my H and how his show of sexual desire make me feel. Every HD here has a chance that there spouse feels these exact same feelings from the pressure they feel they are under from there spouses sexual desire. I percieve my H as the ever ready bunny I portray him as such since sex is such a focal point in our relationship but in reality if he walked around with the perpetual hard on I feel he does he would have died of lack of blood flow by now. But because of the constent fights about sex and control of a relationship and flow of its destination created by the issue of sex it distorts both HD and LD to the reality of the situation. I am not alone in that. But I do recognize it since coming to this board. Lil sometimes I am just trying to give a different view a LD view if it must be labeled But you see everytime a HD says how there spouse makes them feel undersired or unloved and unfufilled because of there lack of interest of sex and a LD person trys to point out how there spouse makes them fill undersired or unloved or unfufilled by the constent efforts to have sex it is not excepted well by some of the HD people here. Example You say knowing your BF showing sexual desire would make you feel special and may increase your self esteem. I say my H showing sexual desire does not make me feel special and does nothing for my self esteem. The difference here I though maybe do not understand why you would base your self esteem on another I except and understand that you do without question. You on the other hand doubt and question what I say. Why? would it be because it is not what you think.
You say you have no respect for your H. In that case, were he to stop desiring you, it might very well have no effect at all on you.
Yes I did say I have no respect for my H but in regaurds to how I know that lack of sexual desire on his part would not hurt my self esteem. I also state if my H no longer showed sexual desire I feel it would have a possible good effect on my marriage a chance to focus on other aspects of the relationship that are not as important to him but quite important to me.
Okay enough of that.
Now I have a question for you.
Lil Why do you assume that you are not delivering what your boyfriend needs? Why do you assume that you are hurting him or letting him down? You state yourself minus the sexual issues you are pretty satisfied with your relationship. Why can it not be as simple as he has no sexual issues because he has no large need for sex so he is completely satisfied within your relationship? That does not make either of you wrong or in default it just makes you different. My H is totally satisfied within our relationship sexual issues aside just as you said you are. And like GEL said with her H his satisfaction gives him no motivation to make changes. Maybe this is where your BF is. That minus what little pressure you put on him for a sexual relationship he is in happy camper land within your relationship. He is content with what he has as it is. No crime in that heck that is what most of us strive for. Unfortuntely what he is content with is not enough for you to be content with. There is no fault in that in your part you are not doing anything wrong matter of fact seems you are meeting all of his needs. You just seem to have some he does not share. Again that is what makes us different. But yours does need to be meet also so finding a way to make him understand that while you would love to pitch a tent beside him in happy camper land you seem to be lacking the stakes to anchor it down to keep it from blowing away and he will need to lend you a few of his.
Quote: However, I really disagreed with this statement of yours: ___________________________________________________________
Why would we want to equate the marital relationship that Chrissy or I might want as "just roommates"? Sex for me is an extension of the relationship. It isn't the leading component. It isn't the defining component. ___________________________________________________________
The part that I struggle with in this description is assuming that HD people do not see sex as an extention of the R. I certainly do. I have been both LD and HD within two different relationships. I was LD because of the lack of respect AND the lack of intimacy in other areas. As the HD spouse I see sex as the natural extension of the intimacy that we share in other areas. Sex alone absolutely doesn't "do it" for me. Sex with H whom I love, respect, share a life and various intimacies with does it for me.
Okay. I can see how that could be disagreement fodder.
But keep in mind the context in which I was responding. Cemar and Lil were forwarding the assertion (as I understood it) that sex was the only thing that made the difference between a spouse and a roommate. It was within that context that I made the above statement.
But, I would hazard the guess that for many folks, sex is a defining component, it is the leading component in their marriage. It is an issue for which some folks will ultimately divorce. That makes it (IMO) a defining component. I am not promoting it as a "sex alone" issue, rather a "sex primarily" issue.
There are some spouses who have a strong need for financial security. Having a spouse that fails to provide, or who squanders that provision can and does result in divorce. For that spouse, finances are a defining component.
First, I don't put pressure on my bf for sex. I rarely bring it up. I've brought up the issue probably twice in the past nine months. The first time he blew up and stomped out of the house, then came back, and admitted he needed to work on anger issues. Then he started with the C and is making great strides in the anger dept.
The second time I brought it up was about two weeks ago. I sat him down and said I cannot stay forever in a R that has no sexual contact. I said I'm not going to walk out on you like your ex did. In fact, I'm not going to do anything until your kids graduate from high school in May 2006. So we have almost a year to work on this.
To his credit, and as a testament to his progress with the C, he did NOT blow up when I told him this. The thing that makes me believe he is NOT satisfied with the lack of sex is that (like the spouses of many other HD people on the board), he replied by saying "he misses it, too," "he wants to work on it," "be patient with him."
He has NOT responded like some other LD (you included) people on this board and LD spouses of the HD people (as quoted by the HD people who post here), that he'd be just as happy to do without it, he has no interest, etc. He claims he HAS GREAT interest and really really wants us to be having sex regularly. He just makes no move to make it happen. He stays up way later than me every night when I go to bed. He makes no moves to touch me in a sexual way.
So I've put my SD under wraps and I'm being patient.
Meanwhile, I'm enjoying very much the lack of angry outbursts. He loves the C like a father (I knew he would), and goes faithfully every week. I see my bf growing and opening up. He continues to be sober. I'm very proud of him and I tell him so. So I have hope that in the future he may get to the point that he will be able to act toward me in a more sexual way.
I'm not extremely physically HD and would be VERY happy with once a week. And like the elderly couple that Jen talked about, I'd be happy if there were just sexual vibes in the air. If we ML every couple of weeks, but kissed, groped, snuggled in the meantime, I would be very happy. I want to feel that he desires me. I'm not asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars here.
If he doesn't start acting sexual toward me eventually, then I'll have to conclude that his comments about "wanting it too" were just his attempt to say what I wanted to hear. And then I'll have to decide if I'm going to follow through on my plans to leave him or decide if I can tolerate the rest of my life with solitary eroticism only.
Regarding feeling special: I don't rely upon my bf for me to feel special. I'm a very special person (and that's not just the 4 talking ) of many accomplishments in my 56 years. I won't bore you with my resume. I feel quite special in most areas of my life.
The point about my bf's sexual desire is that I want to experience my bf's desire for me to know that I am special to him. I want him to regard me in a way that he regards no one else. This is pretty simple stuff.
Even though I'm a childless only child with one living parent, I know I'm special to many friends. But I don't share a sexual bond with any of them. I want the sexual bond with one man, right now I want that man to be my bf. This is pretty simple stuff-- it's a common human phenomenon to value a unique and exclusive sexual bond with someone. Poems and songs attest to this. Even the Song of Solomon in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) extols the beauty of this special connection. I just want some of that.
First, I don't put pressure on my bf for sex. I rarely bring it up.
I acknowledged that in my post. That minus what little pressure you put on him for a sexual relationship he is in happy
I want to feel that he desires me. I'm not asking for the sun, the moon, and the stars here. I agree with this also You are not portraying your self as highly demanding within your relationship. Just that you have a need that you would like occassionally filled.
He has NOT responded like some other LD (you included) people on this board and LD spouses of the HD people (as quoted by the HD people who post here), that he'd be just as happy to do without it, he has no interest, etc. He claims he HAS GREAT interest and really really wants us to be having sex regularly. He just makes no move to make it happen. He stays up way later than me every night when I go to bed. He makes no moves to touch me in a sexual way.
No he has not responded in the way that some other LD people of the board or spouses of HD people on the board has. I agree with that also. I though have no great personal interest or drive for sex have sex regularly and quite frequently with my S to fufill his needs that I do not share. Your BF who has a interest in sex does not have sex regularly or frequently with you to fufill your needs you both share. So again you are right in pointing out that his words/actions vs my words/action are different. I will only speak from my situation on what differnces there are in the way we respond.
Regarding feeling special: I don't rely upon my bf for me to feel special. I'm a very special person (and that's not just the 4 talking ) of many accomplishments in my 56 years. I won't bore you with my resume. I feel quite special in most areas of my life.
Actually we were talking about self esteem and how feeling desired relates to ones self esteem. Gonna leave it at that. And I am sure your resume would be in no means boring to me. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying very much the lack of angry outbursts. I am very glad for both you on this. It is I am sure a great relief for you both.
If he doesn't start acting sexual toward me eventually, then I'll have to conclude that his comments about "wanting it too" were just his attempt to say what I wanted to hear. And then I'll have to decide if I'm going to follow through on my plans to leave him or decide if I can tolerate the rest of my life with solitary eroticism only.
I hope for your sake it does not come to this. All and all you sound very satisfied with your relationship. I believe that this goes along with what Mrs Nop just wrote about.
I want the sexual bond with one man, right now I want that man to be my bf. This is pretty simple stuff-- it's a common human phenomenon to value a unique and exclusive sexual bond with someone. Poems and songs attest to this. Even the Song of Solomon in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) extols the beauty of this special connection. I just want some of that.
I understood this very well from your first post.Again I do not see this as a unreasonable want.
I agree with you, sex alone is not enough for a relationship. However, sex with desire is a necessary component of a good relationship if you are married to a HD. TO me the ONLY relationship worth having is to be soul mates, and someone gave a definition of soul mates that included being sexual lovers. Without the sex and desire, all you are is companions, and that is a relationship that is NOT worth having.
Ok...you say the only R worth having is to be soul-mates....but were you and your W EVER that? I don't mean to sound cruel here...but from what you post here, hon...it doesn't sound like you two have been that. I guess the way I see the term "soul-mates" is that both people feel that connection.....if only one of you views the R that way, then you probably aren't that.
Something to think about anyway, if you truly believe that's the only R worth having.
Cemar, I don't know your whole history but if your W is not providing sexual desire, and that is a necessary component of a relationship for you, what is keeping you in this relationship? It seems as though you would be very miserable. Your unhappiness must be rubbing off on your W, no?
The point I was making is that HD or not sex grows out of a more general intimate connection (soul mates, if you will). Cause if all it was about was sex with true desire (aka lust) then f*ck buddies would do it. It is sex with my H, the man I love that matters. A lifetime of no sex and little desire will always leave me sad and wanting in that area of my life. A lifetime of no H is even sadder.
I was a million miles closer to being soul-mates in the early years then I am now. My GOAL is to be soul-mates. I wish there were varying levels of success, but I really don't see it. For people to become soul-mates, then effectively BOTH spouses must get their needs met. Now if someone can explain to me how two people can become soul-mates while only ONE has desire, I would love to hear that.
I Looked up the definition of Soul-Mate on websters.com and found this definition kind of interesting: Soul Mate - "One of two persons compatible with each other in disposition, point of view, or sensitivity."
Ok for me you are either soul-mates or you aren't...there's no building toward that (IMPO). The way I see the term "Soul Mate" is that this is someone, you have that instant connection with, it's that person you don't have to talk to but know exactly what the other is thinking, this is someone you feel you've known your entire life when you meet them, you see things similary, you feel things similarly...you know, the other person just "gets it" when you're having a conversation, stuff like that. And then of course the sexual connection is also there...but it's just a part of the whole thing. Why do I say that? I've had that, and there's no mistaking it in my book. Do I have a soul-mate now....no, but I have a WONDEFUL man in my life who I don't want to lose.
CeMar, it's this type of vicious cycle, circular thinking that I believe keeps you where you are at. It seems you have this "IDEAL" in your mind and you won't accept anything other than that "IDEAL". I know I've said that before...but you always come right back to this "idealistic" R in your posts. You said something interesting in your response "we were closer to being soul-mates in the early years"....so CeMar, you and your W have never been soul-mates....and you already stated that no other type of R is worthwhile. The way you've stated things in your post it comes across as though...since you two have never been soul mates your R has never been worthwhile. That's what I take from your posts anyway.
I truly does appear from what you type that you seek utter perfection, or at least perfection in your minds-eye....or it's not worth it. You've stated many times how much better your M was in the early years and that your W has done a "bait-n-switch" etc....yet what you state you are wanting now (a soul-mate R) is something you also just stated you didn't have to begin with. Is that fair? To either of you? If that is truly what you wanted....and didn't have that to begin with and this is your true perspective....why did you marry?
You might ask similar questions of me, so I'll give you a pre-emptive answer. My H did show me another side of himself in the very early months of our R sexually speaking, he was also much more open with me at that time....the big "M" is what seems to have drawn him back into his shell on the issues that we are working on. So with him...I'm seeking to draw out, what I've seen...what I already know does lay within him. I also don't expect for him to reach the level that I would like for him to sexually. Would I like that, sure! Will I encourage him, heck yeah! But realistically I know he may never withdrawal enough out of his shell to get to that point, but as long as he comes out part-way....I'm willing to accept the effort.
Just some stuff to think about. Does anyone have a differing opinion or anything to add/argue?
