I came across the following yesterday at this address: enotalone There are a lot of pretty good articles on this site.
Quote: What Is Sexual Desire?
When we talk of "low sexual desire," we are talking of a lack of interest in sex. In street language, the person with low desire does not get "horny," or does so infrequently. Without desire, there is little or no biological motivation to be sexual. Individuals without a sex drive do not understand why they are not interested, and might not even know what it is that's missing. They feel powerless when expected to want sex.
[snip]
Think of sexual desire as a hunger. If a person is hungry for food, he or she will be motivated to eat, will enjoy eating, and will be satisfied once having eaten his or her fill. The person will reminisce about a good meal, will tell friends about what tastes good, and will look forward to eating again. The sexual drive is also a biological hunger that motivates behavior, influences thoughts, and invades fantasies. Despite the similarities, there are differences, however, between a hunger for food and a hunger for sex. A person is not likely to feel hurt, rejected or unloved if a partner does not want to eat with him or her. Not so when a one is not sexually motivated, for this is often taken much more personally by the partner with the greater appetite.
[snip]
All too often we confuse sexual desire with emotional love. I have heard many people, men and women say to their partners, "I you loved me as much as I love you, you would want me as much." Love and sexual appetite are not the same. Physical attraction, sexual chemistry, physical lust operates on a totally different program than emotional caring and commitment. It is wonderful if there is both love and mutual sexual passion, but by a desire for hot sex is not the same as loving and loving is not the same as wanting. Those who would argue with this must be fortunate to have both, but loving couple with a desire discrepancy understand what I am talking about.
To fully understand the nature of desire, one has to consider that when everything is working, desire precedes sexual excitement, and desire is the motivation to seek that arousal. Arousal precedes orgasm. It is in being arousal that orgasm becomes a very attractive goal. In a sense, then, the sexual response cycle is wanting to get something started so that it can be ended. In the process of doing so, it is nice giving pleasure to a receptive partner, fostering the intimacy of a relationship, and nurturing the shared love... but biologically, the drive is to get started, get hot, and get finished.
Ironically, any one of the three phases (desire, arousal and orgasm) can occur independently, without all the phases happening. That is, there can be desire and arousal, but no orgasm, a concern experienced mostly by women (addressed in other articles). Some older men still have desire, but are unable to become aroused, yet with stimulation of their soft penises, they will ejaculate (orgasm). There can also be arousal and even orgasm without being driven by desire. In another article on this site I talk of "jump-starting," and I'll not repeat that here [Couldn't find this article- Lil], other than stating that there are times when a person with no libido can become turned on and experience a wonderfully pleasurable orgasm, but shortly afterward will honestly state, "That was nice, but I don't ever need to do it again." This can be very frustrating to a person who believes that by providing a fantastic orgasm for a disinterested partner, that partner will be "cured" of their low desire. It doesn't happen that way.
Concerns about desire discrepancies make up the most frequently heard complaints in the offices of sex therapists and on the online question and answer boards.
Unfortunately, this is the most difficult situation to reverse. It is practically impossible to talk someone into feeling something, and often the attempts to do so either drive the persons further away or cause them to feel guilty.
Is There Any Hope For Increasing Sexual Desire?
A person who has felt desire but then has lost it, is likely to miss the feelings and want to pursue change. On the other hand, a person with chronically low desire does not, in essence, know what it is he or she is missing and is less likely feel motivated.* [Lil's asterisk] In fact, they often perceive the problem as being their partners' problem. Any feelings of anger, resentment or guilt within the relationship will further dampen an interest in discovering what it is to crave sexual arousal and orgasm with a partner.
If the relationship is good, and emotional issues will not get in the way, sex therapy can help discover ways to stir arousal. However, this often will seem a bit mechanical as, for I have said, it is difficult to build in a biological hunger.
*This reminds me of something I read a few years ago about some deaf students. These were kids in college who were quite accomplished in sign language, had many friends, were academically successful, happy, and well-adjusted. In this particular group, all had been born completely deaf; none had ever had any hearing at all.
Some kind of surgery became available that might give some of the students the ability to hear normally [Oops! The N-word!]. The parents of the students who might be candidates for the surgery were very excited. Now their children would be able to hear mom's voice, the birds in the trees, music-- some of the sweetest things in life are sounds.
But the reaction of the students was quite different. Since the students had never heard birds, the wind in the trees, the Beatles, or dad's off-key singing in the shower, they didn't know what they had been missing. Their own evaluation of themselves as whole and functioning human beings did not need "hearing" to make them any better. They felt (and very much to the credit of their parents and teachers) that they were 100% a-ok fine just as they were. In fact, they became upset when the parents suggested that being able to hear might make them happier and improve their lives.
This is the part that blew my mind: The students felt that the only possible motivation the parents could have for wanting them to have the surgery was because all along the parents had been ashamed of their deafness and had hidden it! Now that the surgery was available, the parents' true feelings could come out and they could stop pretending they were not ashamed of their deaf children!
I saw some parallels with the LD sitch. If you'll recall, a while ago I asked one of the LD women on this board who has an active sex life with her H because she loves him, if she should find herself in a R in the future, would she want an active sex life because she has seen the benefits of being sexually close to her current H? She never really answered the question, and I think maybe the question made no sense to her. What she said was something like, "Seeing how problematic differing drives can be, why would I want to stir up trouble?"
Some of us on this board have been fortunate enough to have had very satisfying sexual R's at some time in the past. Some had good sex in the early years of the marriage. Some of us or our partners fall into the group (or we hope they fall into the group) that he describes above: "A person who has felt desire but then has lost it, is likely to miss the feelings and want to persue change."
But I think there are some people who are just LD, have always been so, and will always be so. They are like the deaf children who are completely okay with it and don't understand why others think being able to hear is so great, since they are totally fine with themselves the way they are.
[Disclaimer: I'm not saying that LD is a "disability." I don't want to go into the difficulties of learning to hear as an adult or the viabilty of surgery. Sorry I can't find the original article. No insult intended to deaf people, users of sign language, parents, college students, or anyone really.]
Interesting article. Ok, so what about those lD's (insert H's name here), who claim to be LD his whole life and then does a complete switch to HD. In our marriage counseling, he would describe how he never had sexual fantasies, even as a teen. Couldn't even come up with one when therapist asked him to try. H's efforts at ML always seemed a little forced. I guess that was his love for me, not desire. Now, however, he acts like he is HD! Can't keep his hands off me. So, is this an act? Will he revert to his old ways? Can someone really switch from LD to HD? I guess if it was not a biological issue but a psychological issue (which I believe is H's case) then it is possible. Thoughts?
FYI...my H also can NEVER come up with a sexual fantasy. The interesting thing is that when I finally told him...your fantasy doesn't have to be something off the wall, it could be something that most people would consider perfectly normal...but you haven't tried it, or maybe it's something you have tried...but you really enjoy. He NEVER even considered those options when I would ask him to tell me a fantasy. When I asked him if he thought I wanted him to come up with some sexual situation that was off he wall...he said "well yeah." THAT was why he couldn't come up with ANYTHING at all. His mind was so busy trying to conjur something wild up that it came up with nothing at all.
And yes people can switch from LD to HD...I and other people on here have.
When my ex asked me if I had any sexual fantasies, I did not want to share them with her. She pushed and pushed and then I finally admitted that a menage a trois (2 women and me) might be fun. She brought it up during the divorce as one of the reasons I wasn't happy with her (that she wouldn't agree to do this). No. It was, at best, pillow talk, and I never actually contemplated doing it.
But, it was a good example of the breakdown of the trust between us, and one of the reasons I keep all of my fantasies and most of my sexual thoughts to myself when dealing with my current W. I told her a couple weeks ago that this was my problem to deal with, and that I wanted to be able to fully disclose and totally trust her. She really appreciated that.
Lillie: that's a cool website/article. And the deaf student story was very on-point. I think my W used to have desire. It's getting hard to remember that far back. Is it that she used to have desire and now doesn't, or did she just reel me in with fake desire? I guess the former is the preferred analysis.
I do believe my H has some fantasies, but I also could tell by the look on his face he'd been trying to think of something wild. I also know our C believes he's holding sexual thoughts, actions back too....she's stated this in front of both of us.....my gut says he's afraid to do something because he doesn't trust he won't be hurt like he has in the past. Only time will tell if I'm right, if he'll suck it up and get past that.
I think this article only applies to people who are truly LD and have always been that way. The only example from this group IMHO is Mrs. Nop. Although I'm wondering if honeypot's H falls into this group, too.
The wives of GGD, ZB, Lou, etc., GEL and GEL's Husband, cinemanymph-- all of these people were/are HD and became/used to be LD (or the reverse... ). In these sitch's the LD was due to abuse, anger, inexperience, whatever. OR the HD was due to the newness of the marriage, desire to get pregnant, whatever. These people aren't the LD that this article refers to (that's my speculation).
The point is there are some people who are (oh God, I'm asking for it here!) "tone deaf" when it comes to sex. Those people, I'm speculating, probably will never become HD or even moderately D, although they may change their behavior.
HD, your question about your W is certainly valid... which is the true Mrs HD-- with desire or no desire. Since she doesn't seem willing to act in the presence of no desire simply out of love for you, it does become a relevant question.
As for Lust for Life's H... I don't know. He may be an HD who has come out of the closet, or maybe he is still LD-- that is, has no spontaneous desire for sex-- but he is so scared of losing you that he is doing the behavior you want, or doing it to express his love even though he could take it or leave it. I'm not sure there's any way to tell if he will revert to his old behavior once he's sure of you again.
As for fantasies... my late H couldn't come up with any when asked... although I have extremely elaborate ones and have even written some up in the form of erotic science fictions stories that I think are quite marketable!
"That was nice, but I don't ever need to do it again." This can be very frustrating to a person who believes that by providing a fantastic orgasm Or just a pleasant experience, that "O" stage is not going to happen.
for a disinterested partner, that partner will be "cured" of their low desire. I am not out to cure BB, just want her to join in.
It is practically impossible to talk someone into feeling something, and often the attempts to do so either drive the persons further away or cause them to feel guilty.
A person who has felt desire but then has lost it, is likely to miss the feelings and want to pursue change. On the other hand, a person with chronically low desire does not, in essence, know what it is he or she is missing and is less likely feel motivated.* [Lil's asterisk] In fact, they often perceive the problem as being their partners' problem. Any feelings of anger, resentment or guilt within the relationship will further dampen an interest in discovering what it is to crave sexual arousal and orgasm with a partner.
This article has one flaw in it. It says the purpose of sex is to get to the orgasam. Yes, in many cases. I think that many LD's would see it this way, I know my wife does. She always thinks that I want sex so that I can orgasam. Truth is that I get more satisfaction from seeing HER orgasam. Sex is about giving physical pleasure to another human being, IT IS NOT ALWAYS ABOUT OUR OWN ORGASAMS!!! Other then that, I think that the article could be right about LD'ness.
CeMar, in this article he was comparing SD to hunger for food. He was at that moment only talking about the physical aspects of SD. This author deals with the vast emotional component in some of his other articles on that site.
The N-word!]. The parents of the students who might be candidates for the surgery were very excited. Now their children would be able to hear mom's voice, the birds in the trees, music-- some of the sweetest things in life are sounds. 
). In these sitch's the LD was due to abuse, anger, inexperience, whatever. OR the HD was due to the newness of the marriage, desire to get pregnant, whatever. These people aren't the LD that this article refers to (that's my speculation). 