I was wondering what you guys think on the subject of moving out. I mean, if one spouse wants a separation, how do you guys feel about who should move out? I'm curious because I read some threads where the person who wanted the separation has asked the *other* partner to leave. And they have. On the other hand, doesn't it sort of make sense that the person who wants the separation should be the one to have to leave the family home?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
HeatherG, My W asked me to move out after she revealed the A, saying she just needed some time. At first I was going to, but a friend/family law attorney smacked me upside the head and said don't you dare, I'd never get back in.
Therefore, my W ended up moving out into an apartment, and I stayed in the house. I thank God everyday that I stayed. Otherwise what would be her motivation at a possible reconcilliation? And, would the Om visit MY house? I was not about to let that happen!
I've always kind of wondered about that, too. Usually it seems like when the one who wants the separation is staying home with the kids, they can sometimes convince their partner to do the moving out. And I'm sure that women, in particular, can get restraining orders and such and force the male partner to move out.
I was trying to think if there was any circumstances, barring legal action, that could get me to move out. Maybe if she dropped any pretense of being discrete about the A and I had to deal with Om in the house. Maybe. But I'm pretty resistant to that kind of manipulative control and it would probably just move me to being every bit as nasty as her. And neither of us would do that to the kids.
So basically, around these parts any way, it seems like the one who wants to separate pretty much is stuck moving.
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Yeah, you used the words "can sometimes convince their partner to do the moving out" and to me, it does seem like that's what it would be. Seems interesting and really convenient that some women convince their partners to leave, keep their kids and the house, AND their spouse's paycheck. Hmm. If my H was that convinceable, we'd be separated. I was reading on someone's thread last night about a couple who is divorced, but for the sake of the kids, still do soccer games, etc as a family. That's awesome and if I had an inkling that things could be like that in my situation, I honestly think I'd take it. I think my H has already demonstrated he will be very ugly if things came down to a separation. Knowing what I would go through and what my kids would go through if I left keeps me right where I am. I'm having a pity party this morning, can you tell?! My PMA started slipping yesterday (after a REALLY great day Sat) and this morning I woke up really angry again. Angry that I'm still sleeping on the couch and in the guest room. Angry that despite of last statement we are still having sex. Angry that he does not respect the things I say and in fact laughs at me and tells me I'm irrational. Angry that he notices I have changed but acknowledges it only to to use as his proof that I was irrational before. Angry that I'm the one reading Relationship Rescue et al while he calmly and openly admits that he has not changed. Angry that he refuses to give up the habit that he knows tears me down (porn). Angry that he goes to Hooters to watch the football games when he's out of town while I am barely allowed out. Angry that he has the power to actually do all these things. Maybe I'm back to being angry b/c I'm pushing myself too hard to bring back loving feelings, etc. They're just not freakin there for me, is that OK? Today I'm just sick of Michele and Dr.Phil and whoever else telling me that the fate of my M is in my hands, that I have the power to change it. That love is a verb and I can bring back loving feelings. Loving feelings is just too damn much to ask for right now. But limbo sucks too. Ya know? Of course you do. He told me he's coming back Friday. I think that brought on the whole thing. I wish he would just not come home. Just disappear. How's that for selfish?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Heather... I'm sorry you are feeling so low right now. It's understandable and totally acceptable. Don't be ashamed of having these perfectly natural feelings. And yes, love is a choice, but if it feels like you're throwing your love into a black hole, it must be hard to manufacture new love. And it's ok to not want to right now.
Look at the next few days as a well-earned vacation. Don't try to fix anything in your R, just enjoy the kids. When your H comes back, see how you feel.
Yes, having children complicates things, especially when you have good reason to believe that things will be messy. But it's not impossible, and I can see you getting stronger every day. Either path will require a lot of strength, and you have enough, so don't be afraid.
Just wanted to check in. I too am sorry that you are feeling down. Everyone here shares empathy with you.
This morning I was listening to the first KLA CD and when Michelle started talking about how one person can make effective changes quickly in their relationship, I rolled my eyes and thought "Yeah right". Maybe one person's idea of quickly is different then another's. My point is, we all have the feelings of being overburdened with being the one doing all the work. It's hard and no one will tell you different.
Take a break, read something else. BTW, do women read fiction books about anything other than relationships? (A little humor to lighten the gloom ) Read a kids book to your kids. Or take a break and read nothing at all!
I found it interesting that H thinks that you were irrational, noticed you've changed, but that you're still irrational. That doesn't make sense to me.
You're a good person for what you are doing. Take care of yourself.
Angry that he has the power to actually do all these things.
He doesn't have the power to do that, Heather. Think about this.
Maybe I'm back to being angry b/c I'm pushing myself too hard to bring back loving feelings, etc. They're just not freakin there for me, is that OK? ... That love is a verb and I can bring back loving feelings.
Heather, "lover is a verb or a choice" isn't about having loving "feelings". It's about acting with love. H is NOT encouraging your feelings of love toward him, but trashing them by his trying to control you, and your feelings of love have diminished, and may have in fact, died. Yes, they can die.
I may be the only one here that thinks you oughtta leave that relationship, but I think you oughtta leave that relationship because Matt's just not doing the work to change and continuing to belittle you. It's not healthy, and you deserve far better.
Take a break, read something else.
Have you read "In Cold Blood"? Light reading compared to what we've been through.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I understand how you feel in so many ways.
Maybe I'm back to being angry b/c I'm pushing myself too hard to bring back loving feelings, etc. They're just not freakin there for me, is that OK? Today I'm just sick of Michele and Dr.Phil and whoever else telling me that the fate of my M is in my hands, that I have the power to change it. That love is a verb and I can bring back loving feelings. Loving feelings is just too damn much to ask for right now. But limbo sucks too. Ya know? Of course you do. Yes Dear, it's absolutely OK that you feel the way you do. Dr. Phil and Michele arent going through this, you are. They can give us hope that we can improve things when we change our attitudes and action, but they don't have to do it. Even though we can understand your feelings, we're not going through it either. You have a right to not feel loving all the time, and to feel like you with your H would disappear. Pretty normal under the circumstances I think.. I feel that way alot. Like I want the prob to go away and be left alone.
Take care of yourself Heather. Don't push yourself too much right now. As much consideration as you'd give your H, or a close friend, give at least that much too yourself. You can't do everything girlfriend!! I'm beginning to think the best thing I can do when in doubt is to do nothing. I hate that limbo feeling too, but maybe that limbo can be a freeing thing if we just let ourselves live there and not worry until we're capable of doing what we need to do. Let someone else worry for a change!
Anna~ Thanks for your support and words of encouragement.
Quote: if it feels like you're throwing your love into a black hole, it must be hard to manufacture new love.
I can't even get to that point where I'm throwing my love anywhere......I just don't have any to throw. So I guess I must have gotten to the point where I couldn't manufacture anymore some time ago. Now I'm just trying to be positive and open the lines of communication, see if we can re-establish a friendship. But I haven't been able to do that. We've been able to re-establish being 'friendly' for the most part, but I can't call him my 'friend'. I know time is supposed to be my friend and all, but I don't see where time will help here. Except maybe in time he will want to be my friend. But my guess is he would say he's being my friend now (or at least as much of a friend to me as I am being to him-there's tracy-logic ). So time probably won't convince him any different.
Quote: Look at the next few days as a well-earned vacation. Don't try to fix anything in your R,
You make me sound too saintly, lol. I really haven't been doing much, just reading a lot and failing miserably at the applications. Dr. Phil's book is great, don't get me wrong. But it focuses a lot on your partner and getting to know them again, what their likes and dislikes are, what goals they haven't met that they wanted to, etc. Those instructions have been hard for me to read believe it or not because I have such strong feelings against my H that I even have trouble *reading* about learning to like him again, much less actually doing the work. So dear Anna, I haven't earned such a great vacation after all, I'm just wallowing in the "But I don't want to do it". In my defense, I'm not sure if I don't want to do it because it's hard work and I'm afraid or if it's b/c my feelings are dead as NY has suggested.
Quote: I can see you getting stronger every day. Either path will require a lot of strength, and you have enough, so don't be afraid.
THANK YOU.
Jabez~ Thanks to you as well for the support.
Quote: This morning I was listening to the first KLA CD and when Michelle started talking about how one person can make effective changes quickly in their relationship, I rolled my eyes and thought "Yeah right".
That's where I'm at man!!
Quote: Read a kids book to your kids.
I read to S4 every night before bed, but more as a ritual than for pure enjoyment. Good idea, tonight I will read a book to *both* of them, just for enjoyment.
Quote: I found it interesting that H thinks that you were irrational, noticed you've changed, but that you're still irrational. That doesn't make sense to me.
Well, he didn't say what the changes *were*. Only that I was 'human' again. So, he left it pretty open-ended. As usual, no specifics even when asked.
Quote: You're a good person for what you are doing.
Thanks. At the risk of sounding like I'm fishing for a compliment, could I ask you to expand here a little? What is it that you think I'm doing and how does it make me a good person? Just curious if you're talking about the values of saving a marriage or if you see something specific in my situation that makes me seem like a good person.
NY~ I want to say thank you for your continued support. You've been my rock since I came to this site.
Quote: He doesn't have the power to do that, Heather. Think about this.
Well unless I want to become controlling like he is, I don't see where I can stop the porn or the outings while he's away. As far as being barred from my bedroom, I've already tried to re-enter and it got physical. The only thing he can't control is how I react or feel about what he's doing. And I can certainly act. But deep down, I have to be honest with myself. These things SUCK! So, I can act like he doesn't control me by doing these things, but the reality that I cannot deny is that he does have the power to control me with these things.
Quote: "lover is a verb or a choice" isn't about having loving "feelings". It's about acting with love.
I'm about to say something really WASish that I think I should probably know the answer to by now, but here goes: How can I act with love when I don't feel any love for him? Yes, that is a real question.
Quote: H is NOT encouraging your feelings of love toward him, but trashing them by his trying to control you, and your feelings of love have diminished, and may have in fact, died. Yes, they can die.
This is where I get confused. For me, the feelings can die? But for every other WAS on this board, they are just hiding, running, deluded, selfish....you get it. Why do I get to be so lucky?? Lucky enough to be able to walk feeling confident that my feelings died and there's nothing I could have done about it b/c H wasn't willing to do the work to change. This is where I start to feel like I feel when I confide in my family. I know they care about me and don't want to see me hurting. But don't treat me preferentially b/c you haven't heard H's side of the story. However, I have to admit that when I start feeling angry and frustrated, it's what I want to hear. I want to hear that I deserve better and that I've tried. I want to hear that my A doesn't justify all the bad things that have since happened nor does it excuse or erase all the bad things that happened prior. When people say that to me, I know they care about me. But it makes me wonder if all I've really done is brought yet another person over to 'my side'.
Quote: Have you read "In Cold Blood"? Light reading compared to what we've been through.
I have not read that. I looked it up and it looks intimidating! I have to be honest that light reading to me is Nicholas Sparks, lol.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Not the hot semi-naked men at all! 
) Read a kids book to your kids. Or take a break and read nothing at all!