Still trying....

[OCKim]

Hi JV...

I hope that the talk with your H went okay yesterday...
I see so much strength in you lately...
You have come a long way since I first began reading your posts. There will probably be more ups and downs ahead of you, but you have made ALOT of great changes within yourself and most importantly I think you are alot stronger than you have given yourself credit for...
It amazes me the growth and complete person that you have finally let out and are showing all of us. You have found the inner strength and power many of us here seek.

Everything I have read from you confirms that you are a happy, intelligent, thoughtful, and STRONG woman.
I see so much strength in you! You will not let yourself become someone that can not move forward...
You are well on your way, JV!

I know that with my situation, I once thought I could only be happy with my H, but the truth of the matter is I can and will be happy if I allow myself to be...
Working on myself has brought me closer to happiness...
So, I will be happy and a happy woman is most definitely an attractive woman!
I have finally come to realize the fact that my happiness is NOT dependent on my H--- He is NOT the source of my happiness.

JV... YOU have grown into more of a "complete woman"...
You have lived through the scars of a poor relationship and now have the knowledge and tools to create a better, glorious one with whomever you choose to in the future...
You are such a wonderful person and you should be proud of the work you have done and how you have handled such a difficult time in your life.
I have told myself that I want to be gracious and strong through this process and it really gives me alot of strength to have people tell me that I have handled this incredibly well. I hope you feel the same way- b/c you should! Hope you are continuing to feel stronger with everyday... I am rooting for you, JV!!!!
Your friend, KIM

[ValerieA]

Thank you SOOOOO much, Kim ! You have no idea how much it means for me to hear you say that...THANK YOU !

So...the talk...

It didn't go as I had hoped, but do these types of "talks" ever do???

I guess the reality of the sitch REALLY hit me......that I may very well lose my home ......This little house was my dream home......everything is in its place because I put it there.....everything was put in here with all my love.....I'm sure you all understand what I mean -- I made this house our home...MY home.

H always said that no matter what, he would let me and the boys stay here.....he is still saying this.....he said that he will continue to provide the boys and me with our "standard of living"...he will pay the mortgage, the utilities, everything for the boys and me, any and all other bills...but he will not give me half of what's legally mine that's in the bank accounts. His exact words were, "That's not fair! You'd get to keep saving your half of the money while mine just goes down further and further! NOPE...You'd better talk to a lawyer because that's not right, and I'm not doing it!"

What I had suggested before his outburst was that he let me and the boys stay in the house and continue to pay for everything, and if he agreed to do this, then I wouldn't ask for anything more from him. No child support, no alimony, nothing. Then when I finish school and am able to work and support myself, we could get together again and discuss the house -- do we want to sell or who's going to buy out who -- and child support........H was fine with ALL of this even after explaining to him that this could take another few years.....but it's when I brought up the money accounts that he changed....just what I was afraid of.

I've talked with my family about this and have received different opinions. My parents say to just start with a clean slate -- sell everything, pay off everything (house, truck, and one credit card), then split it all 50/50. One of my sisters says that H should still pay for me and the boys to live here, and that I still get half of what's ours, no matter what. The other two kind of gave me a variation of them combined .

This feels like one HUGE mess....or maybe it's just my head . Anyhow, I will be contacting an ATTY on Monday to see what he/she has to say -- what I am entitled to and what is reasonable for me to ask of H.

BTW, H said HE talked to one already, and the lawyer told him to "work it out" because I will get half of everything....during the whole discussion, H was trying to get me to change my mind -- he was flirting, trying to touch me, hug me, you name it.

Ok...I'm exhausted...The boys and I went to visit family down in Merced today (4 hour drive there and back ). S9 and S6 are in bed now, but S1 is still awake! Gotta get him to bed NOW !

Thanks for listening, and obviously I haven't "moved" yet. I will as soon as I feel more hopeful....UGH....I'm REALLY tired and in a mood tonight .

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[dodgermf]

JV,

That sounded like a rough day for sure. But just know that in my opinion, you continue to amaze...

The "new" JV...

DMF

[dodgermf]

JV,

Did you leave us?

Did you login as someone else?

What is up?

Donde esta?

DMF

[ValerieA]

Hi, D . Thanks for checking in on me.

I just felt the need to take a break from the bb...wish I could have done the same from my sitch . Things are going ok right now, but last week was just...ugh . I got into it really bad with H this week, and last week I lost myself and my temper with my mom ...but like I said, it's ok now.

The whole thing with my mom started off with me letting H have S9 and S6 with him for last week. I've been very stressed out lately...breaking down into tears every now and then...I don't know why exactly...probably just a lot of emotional, physical, and mental stress . S9 and S6 have been acting up like crazy. They've been fighting and tormenting each other everyday, then S1 had a fever off and on for a few days, so he was VERY cranky to say the least. I had to reschedule my appointment with the ATTY then he rescheduled on me because he had to go into court (my appt is now for later this afternoon). I guess I could've gone to see someone else, but my parents wanted me to see this one.

Anyway, H offered to pick up S9 and S6 when he was through with his class and have them spend the night with him for all of last week (and it was also his weekend to have them). Before he offered to do this, I guess he could see how frustrated and stressed out I was. He asked what was wrong, and I broke down. I told him how I feel like I have no control over these boys...I have to tell them at least 5 times a day to behave and get along...it never used to be like this when H was around more which was about 3 years ago...I'd only have to tell them once, and it was over...it's not like that anymore...I told H, "Look, I know I chose to have 3 children, but I never signed up to do it alone." After I said that, I glanced over at H and I could see that he was really thinking hard...then that night was when he offered to help out for the week. He said it hit him hard when he heard me say that because he knew I was right...that he needed to start helping out more with them.

So after I agreed, I was sending an email out to my mom and sisters, and I had mentioned this in it. Well...my mom wasn't very happy about that. She replied in another email and just 'raged' on me...told me that I shouldn't let the boys go with H for the week because he could be keeping track of when he has the kids and use it against me when it comes time to file for support...that I should have asked her and my stepdad to help instead of the boys' own father...that I was wrong for doing this...then she brought up that I haven't had family over to the house for quite some time and basically called me a 'hermit'...what the he** did THAT have to do with the issue at hand??!! Plus, not only did she send that email to me, she also forwarded it to my sisters and got them all involved ...I was sooo angry...I felt...I felt like she was attacking me from every direction possible...and I lost my cool with my mom.

I more or less went off on her about how dare she tell me what I should or shouldn't be allowed to do in regards to my boys. If I want to send them with their father and he's more than willing to help out, then that is my choice. They've been getting out of hand, I don't want to lose my temper with them any more than I already have, so H stepped up to the plate as he should.

My mom came back at me with, "You're only thinking about yourself, JV! Think about the boys and how this is all affecting them!"... I told her that I AM thinking of my boys! That's all I ever do! What good am I to them if I'm constantly stressed out?! How can they feel good if I'm not feeling good?...I needed the break...H saw it and helped out...so where was I wrong?

A LOT of other very personal issues came up during all of that...issues that I've had with my mother throughout my childhood...a very personal traumatic issue with me that I felt I never had her support and understanding in, and the neverending pressure she put on me about school. The first issue, she said that what I believed to be true was 'my truth' and hers was hers....20 years later, her 'truth' still hasn't changed...and during this moment in our heart-to-heart, my sister J called me and said that I had every right to be upset with Mom about this because she was forewarned by J and one of our aunts....anyway, the school issue, my mom said that once I 'gave up' in high school, she finally realized that she could not live through me. She had very high hopes and expectations of me to become something big (remember the whole Stanford thing when I was a toddler?)...that's why she pushed me everyday.

Well, anyway, we are ok now. I guess it was good to get all of that stuff out. I wish it hadn't happened the way that it did, but it did. The "old JV" certainly would not have stood up like that...especially to my own mother ! When all was said and done, each one of my sisters got in contact with me to hear both sides. They had always wished that they could've lived with Mom like I did, and I always wished that I could've been with my dad like they were with theirs...but the grass wasn't much greener on either side .

Ok now....the issue with H this week.... ....I believe it was Tuesday when I returned home from picking up the boys from school. There was a message on the machine so I played it back, and this is what I heard:

"Hello, XXXXX (OW's name!!! ). I'm trying to get a hold of [H]. This is (friend). Have him call me at XXX-XXX-XXXX please. Thanks."

I had to listen to it a few times just to make sure I heard right . I was soooo p*ssed off and I immediately erased it because I didn't want to hear it again.

So then H calls...and I asked him, very calmly, "Hey...are you seeing that person again?" I know...not the smartest thing to do, but I did it . He said no and wanted to know why I was asking him that. I told him about the message, he wanted me to play it back for him to listen to, but I told him that I had already erased it out of anger. Then he YELLS in my ear for erasing it and said I had a lot of nerve asking him such a question...that I was wrong for doing it (ok, I guess I was)...and all I did was p*ss him off. I told H that there was no reason for him to be yelling at me, I wasn't shouting at him or cussing at him, so he shouldn't do it to me. Then for the first time ever, he yelled and said to me, "You're a f***ing c*nt bit** wh*re, and I hate you!!!!" CLICK!

I've been called a bit** before...many, MANY times by H...but NEVER a wh*re or a c*nt.....I am soooo looking forward to what the ATTY has to say this afternoon.

I'm alright now...and I'm only going to get better from here on out . I'm trying something new with the boys to get them to think about their behavior. Whenever they begin to act up, I separate them immediately and make them write down why they are angry...letting them vent on paper like I do here ! Hopefully it'll help them like it helps their dear mother !...but they're bound to get tired of all that writing sooner or later .

If you made it to the end of this post, thanks sooo much for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Hello, all . I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend.

S1 spent the weekend with my parents (I'll be picking him up in a couple of hours), and yesterday S9, S6, and I went to go see "Wallace and Gromit" . The kids really liked it, and there are even some things in it for the adults to laugh at!

Anyway, the appt with the ATTY went very well. He said that what I was proposing to H is fair...in fact, he said it is more than fair...that H should really give me more than what I was asking for...but no matter what happens, I will get my half of what's in the bank.

If H should choose to have the 'attitude' like, "Ok, I'll give you your half, but you're not staying in the house then," I can ask for a deferred sale. Seeing how we have school-aged children and I'm currently not able to support myself and them, the judge would most likely grant me that, and I would be able to stay in the house for another year or two, and H would still have to pay for us to be here.

The thing I need to be careful about is when I told H that if he agreed to what I wanted, then I wouldn't seek any additional support....well, I can always get the child support at any time, but I have to watch what I say and how it's worded on the legal papers when it comes to alimony because if I waive that, there's no asking for it later, and right now I have about 4 years worth of alimony coming to me.

I also asked the ATTY if it made any difference that H's name is on everything...and I mean everything...but he said no. Everything we have was acquired during our M, so it's all community property. The house was in my name also when we bought it in 2002, but when H refinanced in late 2003, the paperwork was all run under his name only...don't ask me how that happened because I haven't got a clue...so when the notary official came to the house for us to sign the refinance papers (the loan company was down in San Diego -- we are near Sacramento), I saw that my name wasn't on anything ! The only thing there was for me to sign was a quit claim. I was bothered by this very much to say the least, but H said, "Come on. The papers are already here and ready to be signed. We'll put you back on the house later, ok?" So yeah, I signed, and I asked numerous times after that to be put back on, H said he would, but it never happened.

I told the ATTY this, and he said, well for one thing, the paperwork should never have been done under just H's name...he doesn't know how that was able to happen. Anyway, he said that I could say that I signed under undue influence...in other words, pressure. I don't have to prove my case. I just tell the judge what happened, then it's on H and his lawyer to rebut and prove that I was not under undue influence at all. The ATTY said it's a VERY difficult thing to rebut, and the majority of the time, the decision goes to the person who was under the pressure.

Well...I told H yesterday when he stopped by to get his mail that I would like to get together again some time this week to discuss an agreement again. He didn't say anything, and I didn't tell him that I spoke with an ATTY either. Before my appt was over, the ATTY told me to not let H make me feel like he's doing me a favor by letting me stay in the house while continuing to pay for it because he's not. He pointed out to me, and I can't believe I didn't realize this myself, that the kids and I are probably only getting about $200 from H every month since he's been out of the house....I wasn't thinking about what HIS expenses are every month. H pays $400 a month for renting a room from (mf), then there's his bills over there, his gas to and from Richmond everyday which is about 35 minutes each way, his groceries, HIS POKER PLAYING, the bridge tolls he pays everyday since he's always out playing cards....what else??? H only gets $1800 a month from unemployment, and I can tell you that that is about what we spend every month for the boys and me (the mortgage, bills, groceries, etc). I hadn't checked the bank statements in the past 2 months...I wish I hadn't done that. I checked it online before my appt on Friday, and there is about $4000 less than what there was back in July.... ....We really are ok though. I once said that if we lost $5000 due to his poker thing, it wasn't going to hurt us, and it still won't....but I do believe I should get my half out NOW...but that's the problem because it's all in his name.

Anyway, I feel really good after talking with the ATTY. H made me feel like I was being greedy, and I wasn't at all. I'm learning as I go here , and I'm not going to let H run all over me anymore. I'm not going to let him make me feel like I'm the wrong one all the time.

No more...NO MORE.

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

Somebody's REALLY p*ssed now .

H called earlier this afternoon to ask me to let him know when his unemployment check gets here...there was no need for him to do that...I ALWAYS let him know when it gets here, and he knows that.

Anyway, he asked if I still wanted to talk. I said yes...that Friday would be best while the kids are in school and S1 will be with MIL for the day. Then H said let's just talk now. I told him I'd prefer to wait until Friday. He said no, now...(sigh)...so, ok. I started talking.

I told him that what I had proposed to him was fair...it was very fair. H said, "Ok, so I pay for you to stay there, but you still don't get the money." I told him he was wrong. I told him that I'm entitled to it...it's the law....I may not have handled this convo the best or the right way, but I wasn't going to back down, and I could feel H trying to back me into a corner.

I told H that I did talk with a lawyer. I said to him, "You told me to see a lawyer, and that's exactly what I did." Then H BLOWS up...what else is new?...and said, "I CAN'T AFFORD THAT! I CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR YOU TO LIVE THERE AND FOR MY STUFF, TOO!"

I told him, "Get a job then, H. You could do something else, you know. I don't know why you're limiting your job search to just the refineries and poker dealing. Why not try auto sales or something else? You and I both know you're a kick a** salesman who knows how to close. You could do something else. I can't right now. It's going to take me some time to go back to school and further my education so that I can support myself and the boys because working at Mervyn's, JCPenney's, or Target isn't going to pay the bills! It'll hardly pay for childcare as it is!"

All H had to say was, "I don't want to do car sales." I told him, "Ok, so find something else then. It doesn't have to be just that. Just do something for the time being while you continue with your training course. You're only 31, H. There's a lot you can do."

H said, "Ok. What if I just stop paying the mortgage then, huh? What would you do if I did that?"....OMG, I couldn't believe he actually said that....I said, "Don't even. Don't even act like that. Why would you want to say that? Why would you even think about screwing me over like that, and the truth is, you'd be doing it to the boys, too." H yelled again, "Because I can't afford that! I can't pay for you to be there if I have to give you any money!"

I told him, "Well, it is my half of our money, H. I am entitled to it. It doesn't matter that I didn't contribute to it financially, or that you feel it's YOUR money since you worked your a** off for it. Yes, you did...but I also worked my a** off here in the house. I've cooked, cleaned, did your laundry, made sure all the bills were paid on time, took care of any and all errands for you when you couldn't, and I've been at home everyday with the kids. Every day, every night...while you were out playing cards or doing who knows what....You chose to do this, H. I tried. I tried to look past all of what's happened. I tried to make it work, but you didn't want that. You walked out...but none of that matters now. This is what it is. We have kids -- " Then H interrupted with, "No, YOU chose to have kids. Not me."... ...I said to him, "Tell me something I haven't already heard from you, H. Ok, so it was my choice, right? Well then it was YOUR choice to stay and be unhappy with me from the start...and then have 2 more kids with me during the course of our M."

He said nothing....BTW, during this convo, H locked himself out of his car . So that only added more fuel to his fire. He asked me to look for the spare, but I guess he didn't remember that he was using the spare since he lost the original a few months back.

Anyway, he called back around 1:30pm and was upset that he didn't make it to his class due to being distracted by ME and our convo...well I seem to recall that you wanted to talk NOW, H ...luckily he was able to call and talk with his teacher who told him to attend the late class. Soooo....he said that he definitely wants to talk on Friday....he was much more pleasant in this phone call.

Well.....we'll see what happens then, I guess.

Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[ValerieA]

Journaling:

I'm not sure what to make of this man anymore.

H called while I was taking my shower earlier this morning, but I chose not to call him back right away....I just returned his call about an hour and a half ago.

Anyway, the convo started off pleasantly then H asked, "Oh yeah! What did you say yesterday about me getting a job? That I'm not looking for one or something?" I told him no. I said I didn't understand why he was limiting his search for a job to just the refineries and poker dealing. H said, "Oh...yeah, you're right. I guess I could look at other things, too." Then he went on to tell me about his upcoming test this afternoon, and I wished him luck.

After a moment, H said, "Can I ask you something?" I said yes. H was quiet for a moment then said, "What if I went to go see a psychiatrist or a MC?" I was silent for a minute and told him that would be his choice. Then H broke down into tears and cried, "I'm sorry. I'm so sorry, JV, for messing everything up." I cried a little, too, and told him that I knew he was sorry, and that I believed him. H said he misses what we had so much...he misses all the fun we used to have together...he misses being around the kids. I told him I'm sorry, and I miss it, too.

H said, "You won't have to worry about taking me to court. I'm just going to give you everything, ok?" I said no that I don't want everything, and I'm not trying to take everything away from him. I just want what's right and what's fair.

H was still crying and said that nothing means anything to him anymore. I told him that's not true...that the boys mean everything to him, and he means everything to them. H said, "Yeah but they don't even want to spend the night with me when I want them to." I told H that just because someone doesn't show you love the way that you want to see or feel it doesn't mean that they don't love you with all they have.

H said again that he was just going to give me everything. I again told him no and asked him, "Ok, if you do that, then what are you going to do, huh? How are you going to live? H, I don't want everything, and I won't accept it because that's not right." H went on to say that he feels worthless, and I told him he's not. He is not worthless. He means so much to everyone whether he wants to believe it or not, and I told him, "If all someone ever does is focus on what's wrong with their life everyday, then they're going to feel negative everyday. They will be miserable everyday." I also mentioned that I can see how I looked miserable to him many times...that I used to sit and think about all the bad choices I made in my life and wondered why bad things happened to me and no one else...just thinking about all that negative PAST stuff made me miserable, and no one wants to be with someone who's miserable at all. We need to accept and understand that what happened, happened. There's nothing we can do to change it. All we can do is pick ourselves up and move on to make tomorrow better. We need to understand that we have no control over what's headed our way in our lives, but we can control ourselves. Our emotions, our reactions, our thoughts. I told H to think about what's good in his life. Focus on whatever positive thing happened for him during his day and look forward to tomorrow...don't dread it.

H said he just wished that he could fix everything. I told him the first and only thing he can fix is himself. Work on himself to be mentally and physically healthier. If that gets fixed first, then everything else will fall into place.

I told H to get himself composed now. He needed to start focusing on getting ready for his test. He said he was ready, so I wished him luck again. H said, "Thank you....hey?....ILY." I told him "ILY, too."

He has called me a couple of times to chit-chat during his test breaks. It's been very pleasant. We even laughed together once when talking about a TV show we both watched last night...one that we used to watch together.

Anyway, we're still on for Friday. H asked if I had any plans this weekend, and I told him I had nothing definite yet...the kids will be with him.

BTW, H had admitted that he was wrong and very sorry for all the bad things he has said to me. He has no excuse for it. He just doesn't know how to control his emotions when he's angry, so he says what he says because he doesn't know what else to say. I'm still not ok, and it does bother me very much when he does those things, but at least I could tell he was being sincere and honest about it.

Ok. Time to get the boys from school. Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."

[DonH]

Well JV, I'm back - the questioning, devils advocate, pro M trouble maker. Are you sure you're done? Are you sure that if you didn't give it more time that your M could be all that you want it to be? As I read your last post, it certainly seems to me like there is still at least a glimmer of hope here - both for H and for your M. He may not follow through and he may backslide. I have no idea. I don't know how many times you've been down this road with him, but it just seems to me like he may finally be getting it. He may finally be willing to put in the work to make your M a success. Certainly that would be the best for the boys. Hell it mighth even be the best for you in the long run. I won't go into quoting all of the lines from DR or DB but something tells me there could still be a chance here and I'd hate to see it go to waste - for everyone involved. I know I've taken you to task on this before and the last thing you need is someone like me screwing up what may be your last chance for real happniess (okay so I am quoting the books) but I just feel your thread and sitch calling for these comments. It may take a huge amount of work, it may take years to work out. But something tells me it just isn't done yet. Am I wrong?

[ValerieA]

Oh no...the troublemaker. Just kidding, Don .

Are you wrong?...I don't know. I really don't. I don't know if this answers anything, but allow me to just let it all out.....

Sometimes I wonder if there is still a chance....
Sometimes I wonder if a D is the best thing for me and/or for H....
Sometimes I wonder if it could ever be better....
Sometimes I wonder if I could ever FEEL love with H again....
Sometimes I want him back sooo bad when I see him because I am still attracted to him....
Sometimes I want him to hold me just so I can feel close to him again...I want to feel the passion we once had for so long....
Sometimes I think he will NEVER change...for himself or for the R....
Sometimes I can hear him calling me those horrid names when he's not even here....
Sometimes I think he is very serious when he tells me that if we didn't have children, we would have never been together....
Sometimes I think he will never get past all the resentment he has towards me for having our boys and for not working....
Sometimes I feel like I really hate him....
Sometimes I think the only reason he continues to be 'nice' to me is so that I don't get too p*ssed off at him and take him for all he's worth...that's H thinking the worst of me....
Sometimes I'm afraid if I did give this M another try that H's affection and attempts at trying to work things out would be phony....
And especially over the last few convos we've had, I feel like H is realizing that he has a lot to lose by getting D'ed...so why not work it out since it's 'cheaper to keep her'?

He's hurting...I know he is...but I wonder if it's because of what H says it is...that he misses the life we had before all of this....or is it because he's afraid and upset over possibly losing and having to give up what he worked soooo hard for?....the money in the bank....he could care less about the house, the cars, the furniture, blah blah blah. It's having to give up the money that is bothering him. He was sooo ready to agree to letting me and the boys remain in the house while continuing to pay for everything, but when the $$$ issue came up...and now knowing that I talked with an ATTY who said I WILL get my half no matter what...well....NOW he loves me....Not even a week ago I was a 'f***ing c*nt b****' and he hated me.

I want to do what is right, and I don't know what that is. I know it is best for the boys to have both Mom and Dad together, but that's only if the R is a healthy one. We were always very affectionate with each other and with the kids, but the fighting was there, too, and I know the boys have heard their father's language towards me.

Sometimes I feel like I owe it to my boys to give H yet another chance...especially for S6. He has cried a few times and said he wants to be a family again... ...that he wants H and I to be in the house together again....Do you have any idea how hard it is to hear your child in such emotional pain? It is not the easiest thing to go through....and then there's S1 who roams around the house and babbles 'dada', 'dada', 'dada'...over and over again...and wobbles over to H when he's here and cries for him as he's leaving. I can see that it hurts H to see that, too.

Sometimes I feel like trying for their sake...and other times I feel that it will never be better. I think H has truly convinced himself that he wants out, but now he's afraid of losing his most prized possession...his hard-earned cash.

I just don't know. I mean, how do I know that he's not toying with me? Trying to make me feel for him in the hopes that I let my guard down and agree to something I shouldn't in regards to a D? We both don't want to go through ATTYs, but I think I may have to because I'm afraid that H might try to outsmart me, if that makes any sense.

Ok, I don't know if I'm making any sense at all now because I'm really tired . Anyway, H is stopping by tomorrow to pick up his check and the rest of his mail.

I do know one thing...if reconciliation is going to happen, then MC is a MUST. I know I can't make him go, but if he seriously wanted to try for the M again, then it's a definite must.

Ok...bedtime ! Thanks for listening.

JV

"I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination."