[ That's where I've goofed before by being too brash and sudden with my attempts to implement some boundaries, thus making me look controlling. OMG ThatGuy! What a revelation this is for me. It never occurred to me that implementing boundaries in other than a very slow and subtle way would be seen as controlling.
I wanted to comment on calling your W too. I say, whatever is best for you do! Think hard about it and if it's benefiting you, you don't mind it, you want to do it for the kids,.. great! If however it's over the top for you, dont. It's your W's responsibility to nurture communication and a R with the kids. But you already knew that! Are there times that she initiates contact with them on her own, or is it always up to you and the kids? If she doesn't, I might skip a call or two... to encourage her to pick up the phone. Just so the kids can see her making an effort for them.
Why are we still M? That's what I want to ask W. Why are we still M?
Today is W's day to come to town to work and take the kids to school and pick them up. She was late getting to town (the norm lately), so I took D9 and the neighbor kid to school so they wouldn't be late. When I got back home (5 minute round trip) W had arrived. I threw some laundry in the washer and grabbed some snacks for breakfast at work. W was spending some fun quality time with S6. Very nice. I was cheerful and told them to have a great day and left for work.
Here's where my PMA disappeared...
It got very cold last night and everything outside was frosted. As I backed down the driveway I noticed the dirt coated back door/window of W's van. You could tell she had run the rear-defrost on the back window b/c the melting frost had cleaned the dirt coating off making a pattern where the defroster strips are. Make sense? So my mind asks, "How could she get frost on her van if it's parked in her garage?" Well the shed that OM lives in (and I'm not being sarcastic when I say shed) has no garage so W's vehicle would sit outside if she spent the night there. Thus the frost covered van.
I know, there could be a million other reasons why her van sat outside last night, or how her van got so covered with dirt, or how the "clean" pattern got on her back window. I know, I shouldn't worry about what W and OM do, I have no control over what goes on out there. I know, work on me and be the best father to my kids I can be. But some days I just want to say WTF and throw in the towel b/c it just ain't worth it!
They are treating us to pizza at work today so that will raise my spirits. I'll probably be back to polite friendly coparent by the end of the day.
It has been a hard habit to break. For eight months I did it every day, from the bomb until I found DB a few weeks into the S. I try not to think suspiciously but it's like that saying "don't think pink." It can't be helped sometimes.
I am a classic WAW except I haven't left. Was so surprised to have had an affair - never thought I would be there. The A is over. Told my H I wanted to separate in Jan but not about the OM. I am embarrassed. H was shocked and we went for C. It helped somewhat with our interaction with each other but we are still not great. We have weekends when we just don't speak to each other. He thought C was a waste of time. For me it was great because I really learned a lot about myself over the past year. I feel like I have grown quite a bit.
Is it important to tell him about the A? He would never forgive me and we would never be able to get the M back on track. I am not even sure we have something to save. I feel that I am in love with OM but also realise that this could be just a romantic love and not mature love. Which confuses me because I really need and want to connect with my H but we can't (again he is too tired from work, children, etc and would rather watch TV) and so it what I want/need just a fantasy? Is what I felt with the OM not real?
Tried showing him different websites to help us work on ourselves so we can communicate better and find what we are missing but he hasn't the time. What prompted you to find this site? What do you do to make the M better. I have read books, done work on myself, tried to change how I have interacted with H.....what next?
I ask only because I am encourage by what I have read on your thread. You, and those on your thread seem very committed - your posts have given me a lot to think about.
whatsreal, I am not sure that I would be the best person to be giving advise. It seems that the only time I do something right in my sitch is when it is the only thing left after doing all the wrong things. There's my warning to you. Now I'll share what I've learned/experienced.
Your H sounds like me a few years ago. Super clueless that he is standing on about a millimeter of thin ice and his world could change in a heartbeat. I had all those same characteristics and look at me now going to hell and back to try to get my M to work. So there is hope for him. The question is how to get him to see the danger swirling all around.
My first thought after reading your post was that I wished my W would have tried as hard as you to smack me in the face and get my attention that something was wrong. C was never suggested and no research was done by W at all. So I commend you for the work you've done so far. Knowing me, I probably would still have been as clueless as your H even if my W had put in the effort you have. It makes me wonder if anything less than the bomb would have snapped me into reality. I'd like to think that a C could have awakened me but who knows.
Was so surprised to have had an affair - never thought I would be there.
My W claims the same thing. Says it came out of nowhere. She wasn't looking. Just slowly happend, and before she realized what was happening it was too late.
He would never forgive me and we would never be able to get the M back on track.
My W thought I would react the same way. I don't know if it was a legitimate reason not to tell me, or just an excuse so she wouldn't have to end the A.
What prompted you to find this site?
I was frequenting another site that wasn't very constructive or helpful. Just a place to bitch about your cheating S. Then one day it got hacked and went down. I was this close to filing for D b/c we had been S a few weeks and I found out that OM had given W a cell phone so I couldn't snoop and see how often they talked. For some reason I searched all day at work for something on the web to replace the hacked site that would make me feel better or show me what to do. I didn't want to file but I wanted the hurt to stop. I found DB.com and when I read the stuff MWD had written I thought, "OMG, this lady was in my house and knows my M inside and out." There were hundreds of other people out there just like me!
What do you do to make the M better?
Pretty much what you have done. Worked on myself. Tried to discover what it was that I was doing or not doing that made W look elsewhere. It's still a work in progress b/c the M is nowhere to be found. I am more stable now and in a place where I can take it or leave it as far as the M is concerned.
Is it important to tell him about the A?
I don't think you have to tell him. That's up to you. I would say to keep the nuclear option as a last resort. There has to be some other things you haven't tried or tried long enough. Separation might get H's attention. Maybe I'm wrong and just being a whimp because I've been in his place. If you do tell him he could go either way depending on his personality and character. Within a few seconds to a few days of hearing about the A, it will galvanize him to either run towards you or away from you.
Hope I've given you some food for thought. An A is a terrible thing to do, but I understand why it happens and we all make mistakes. Again I commend you for coming to this BB and looking for ways to save your M. You are a rare potential WAW.
Thank you for your reply. You really have given me so much to think about.
Maybe I'm wrong and just being a whimp because I've been in his place.
I think it takes a very strong person to forgive an A or at the very least try to move past and it make the M or R work.
I am going to let your words sink in and try to find other options. I tried talking to H last night about our R but it went no where. I wanted him to know what I am thinking and how I am feeling or still feeling. I did this in a very non threatening way so not to put him on the defense. I am so close to leaving this M. But he had nothing to say and in his defense, he needs time to digest and so I did not push the subject. But he did say that he works hard all day (we both have long stressful work days) and doesn't feel like talking about our R when he gets home.
Thks again for taking the time to answer some of my questions. I will give it some more thought. How have your children reacted?
But he did say that he works hard all day (we both have long stressful work days) and doesn't feel like talking about our R when he gets home.
R's are like your teeth...ignore them and they will go away. I'm afraid H senses that to work on the M will require him to take a little emotional inventory on himself. He doesn't really want to do that. Been there.
How have your children reacted?
S6 doesn't know any different. Gets a little fed up with traveling back an forth between mom and dad's homes. D9 is still angry with W. She loves her mom very much but now and then her patience wears thin with W and her anger shows. Sometimes I wish Michele would write a DB book for pre-teens so they can deal with their WA parents.
Have you thought about finding a counselor for your kids? We take ours and I think it helps. They don’t like to go, but the counselor said the more they resist, the stronger the message that they have something to process.
My wife started taking them on her own, but I got upset that she was painting this picture of me as the evil one causing all the problems, when I saw it exactly the other way around. So I have taken to attending the meetings too, just to keep the perspective balanced.
Hard to say exactly what visible effect all this has on the kids, but they do seem to understand that none of our fighting is their fault, which is probably the most important thing. Otherwise kids will begin to internalize the guilt and fault themselves. Also, I don’t know how much worse things could be for them if they weren’t going.
One other thing, if your wife knows the kids are going, and I think it fair that she knows, she might get a little curious about what is being said about her and decide to sit in too. This will create cause for arguments, but in the end I think getting things out in the open is ultimately healthier.
Every 3 weeks of so something happens in my sitch that makes me glad that I make at least some kind of an attempt to follow the DB principles. To be brief, I'm glad I now keep my big trap shut when I make suspicious assumptions about what W is doing when I'm not around her. Sooner or later snippets of info land in my ears and when pieced together in my mind I realize that I really don't know a dang thing that is going on in W's head or what she does in her "free" time. I'll post the long version of what has occured at a later time.
I'm afraid H senses that to work on the M will require him to take a little emotional inventory on himself. He doesn't really want to do that. Been there.