My first impression on reading your latest post was a possible problem with perspective. You lay out your thoughts in a very logical manner. Your arguments make sense and sound rational. I suspect you lay out the same case to the counselor. So it should not be any wonder that the recommendation reflects what you would want to do. The picture you painted is one-sided, no matter how objective you tried to be. Be VERY careful with these counselors. They sometimes do not know their limits. One-on-one counseling is only good for working through YOUR issues. Any conclusion about what your wife needs to do can only be made after she has had the opportunity to present her case. I think that to do otherwise is to invite disaster.
Remember that your wife feels you have a history of controlling and not acknowledging her. She is obviously still confused and does not know what she wants, so how can confronting her in this manner help you or her? And what kind of decision do you expect her to make? Where is her pain versus gain? What incentive does she have to change the status quo? In some ways does she not have the best of all worlds? She gets to see her kids and be with another man. What is the reward to returning to you and what is the punishment for not doing so?
I don’t think you need to be walking on eggshells, but you need to be sure to remove any excuses she has for not coming back to you. If you have not been working on your issues with your counselor, then he/she has done you a disservice. My guess is that your wife would want to talk about the relationship, but you need to lay the groundwork so she can arrive at an indisputable decision. If she is confused, help her make the decision. I am not sure she can do that yet.
So I would throw all this back at your counselor and ask him/her to work a little harder for what you pay. I suspect your conversations have focused on the relationship and you have become too caught up in the trees. Reset the perspective and back up and see the forest.
Cobra, you remind me of my high school football coach. Just when I think I've got stuff figured out and I start to coast, you seemingly come out of nowhere and push me to work harder and to improve.
Remember that your wife feels you have a history of controlling and not acknowledging her.
Just when I've successfully stashed that little tidbit of painful fact deep down where it doesn't hurt me to think about it...you bring it out into the light of day again. Thankfully before I've reinforced those feelings in W. That was close.
...how can confronting her in this manner help you or her?
I have had several chances to "confront" W over the past few days but something deep down kept me from doing it. It just didn't feel right. It no longer was fear of what I might hear that kept me from doing it, it was DB intuition that stopped me. I try to use my feelings as a reverse barometer. I do the opposite of what my feelings are telling me to do. This is probably a complicated way of saying "do a 180".
My brain is battling with my heart. My brain knows that "confronting" will probably get me nowhere which is why I posted my questions here. To buy time. To get an outside perspective.
Why am I so damn wishy-washy? Just when I'm thinking I don't need this BB much anymore I find out that I'll be stuck here for quite awhile.
What is the reward to returning to you and what is the punishment for not doing so? If she is confused, help her make the decision. I am not sure she can do that yet.
No she can't. To W, other than a better financial sitch and easier logistics, she probably doesn't think she'd be any better off coming back.
When she warms up to me and she acts like we are really good friends (the last week or so), I wonder if she is testing the waters to see how she feels about returning. This time I have let go of more resentment than before and really played it like OM is not in the picture. More flirty and open. Less eggshells. This is the time to listen to my heart.
I'm more sure than ever that a confrontation right now would be a pretty stupid move. Patience and diligence is good.
So I would throw all this back at your counselor and ask him/her to work a little harder for what you pay.
I've had the feeling for the past couple of appointments that I wasn't getting the most from my C. She has tried to steer the talk toward me but I just blab on about the chronology of the R. So maybe it's my fault. Since I felt that not much was getting done, I've spread out the time between appointments. Typical move for me. I still don't want to confront some of the yucky stuff inside of me. Then I wonder why I make no progress with W?
Another wishy-washy question b/c I don't think I can see the forest for the trees...
What incentive does she have to change the status quo? In some ways does she not have the best of all worlds? She gets to see her kids and be with another man.
Cobra's quote above combined with some things my C has said about me accommodating W too much has got me wondering. Every day that I take the kids to school (usually 3 days a week), W requests that I call her so D9 and S6 can talk to her before they walk into school. Also in the evenings she likes them to call her before going to bed. I would never keep W from talking to the kids but am I being too accommodating?
C says that if W wants to talk to the kids she can call them. That I shouldn't be going out of my way to make sure W gets called. I've read it here before and C has said it too, that there should be consequences to W's actions. I'm just not sure this is a place that it applies. W gets very down when she feels that she has not been kept informed about the kid's activities. She is very appreciative when I keep the kids in close connection with her. Would I be shooting myself in the foot if I made W work a little harder at getting kid info?
This is like a third rail to me and spooky to deal with. How has anyone else out there handled the WAS that wants to be involved in as much of the kid's life but still be a WA in another town 90% of the time? Some of your expert help please.
I'm in a very similar boat. My H is determined to be extremely involved in my kids' lives. Since he is an outstanding father, I am grateful for this.
But I do not place the calls. If D2 asks to call, then I hand her the phone. H programmed his phone number into our speed dial, so she even knows how to dial. She rarely asks. Other than that, H does both his daily calls, and has to be aware to call at an appropriate time when he can "catch" us. If he is late with his call, then there's a good chance he'll miss us. He's learned that the hard way, and found that to be a tough consequence and I can now set my watch by him
If he wants extra time with the kids, I happily will agree to it. If we already have plans then I express my dismay that "it just won't work".
This leaves him to bear responsibility and live with consequences if he flakes. And none of it falls on my shoulders to manage. I just sit back and behave as honestly (and busily) as possible.
I don’t understand why this would be spooky to you. It seems to be fair that she step up to the plate and do some of the work. If she doesn’t like it let her change, but I don’t see why you should. If you change to accommodate her, it will simply be enabling. I think your fear is what needs addressing. Once you overcome this, then you will not react to her getting upset. Your improved boundaries will see that her being upset is her fault, not yours.
I agree with your counselor that your wife should be the one calling. Furthermore, let the first call go unanswered and make her call a second time. Put some pressure on her. I do not think this necessarily means you are shooting yourself in the foot. From what I recall, she objected to your control issues and lack of acknowledgement. This does not mean she wants you to roll over and become a wimp. You can be strong and decisive without being controlling or abusive. Read some of the posts of Blackfoot. He makes some very good points in this regard (though at times he sounds a bit narcissistic to me).
This “spookiness” is what makes you the pursuer, pushing her away and is possibly a large part of your problems. Talk to the counselor about this.
Cobra: It's spooky to me because I'm an indecisive wuss that is afraid he'll continue to f&%k up his M!
You can be strong and decisive without being controlling or abusive.
To me that is a fine line. It's a slippery slope that once I try to be strong and decisive I quickly slide down to controlling etc. Also my confidence is directly linked to W. She can shoot down my PMA or "strong will" with a single sentence. (Yes I know, I'm working on my codependence too.)
Now that I have some solid short term goals/actions that are backed up by the examples and logic of the people here, I can keep from withering in the presence of W and remain confident that I'm doing the right thing.
Just posted my story - So - 3 days ago - W told me she is coming back - but that day when we decided to meet for lunch - I acted - "You must end all contact with OM right away" and it got me emotional angry etc. etc... and she got emotional.. she says "she is stuck" - what does that mean? After she told me she is surely coming back - the next day - she changed her plan - the next day - she said she is too emotional and wants to be alone for one more day - and on the next day the "one more day" became "few days" - and she continues to live there - its her place - and said on monday "OM is not there - they are through" But she doesn't call me - tells me not to call her cause she is switching her phone off - I get the feeling that
OM and W had fight - and W thought it was over - so she came to me and told me that she is coming back - and when she went back she and OM might have started talking - and now she is being ..all this excuses...
Don’t be so hard on yourself. I don’t see the problem as that big of a deal. Keeping from slipping down the slippery slope is only a matter or proper boundaries. The comment from Anna is an excellent example of how good boundaries can take the pressure off you and make the other person become responsible for his/her own actions and consequences. I think you are still covertly controlling her now, by being responsible for her happiness. Isn’t this a little empowering for you? I wonder if your anxiety really comes from fear of letting this control go, rather than how it will actually affect your wife. Something to think about anyway.
One other thought…. How do know she would react poorly to your placing such limits on her? Would she object to someone else placing limits on her? Surely the other man must make some sort of similar demands. If she can handle that, then the difference in her reaction to you may have to do with you, not her. If so, this is something under your control. All you need to do is identify what it is that you do that makes her react. This should not be too hard since she has probably told you already. This is what your counselor should be helping you with.
If your confidence is tied to your wife, then you are truly vulnerable. She has all the control over you and can bounce you around like a puppet. That is not a good place to be. Yes it is codependence, but it comes from your childhood. You are analytical enough to quickly figure out the source of your issues once you identify what they are. Work on this and take away her power. Detach. Then you can bargain from a position of strength, not weakness. There is really little other choice in this for doing otherwise also runs the risk of her losing respect for you, which is part of what you want from your controlling behavior anyway, right?
I'm much better today after a bowl of uncooked brownie batter last night followed by a good night of sleep.
Quote: I'm tired of being in limbo. I don't see any reason to be optimistic about the possibility of a reconciliation but we're getting along so well I feel like I might be shortchanging things if I'm pessimistic. A lot of the time I just wish I could pick which way to feel; either choice is better than no choice. But that isn't the way it works.
Burgbud is so much more eloquent than me so I stole this quote from him b/c it hit home to how I've been feeling lately. Thanks BB.
Here is what spooks me about any possible adjustments to how and when W communicates with the kids. If she had it her way, the kids would live with her and go to school near her and I'd be the one to only get to see them on weekends. I'm afraid that she'd see my refusal to make it as easy as possible for her to talk to the kids as another reason (and maybe the final reason) to move the kids.
This all stems from this summer when I dug in my heels and refused to pay for her apartment (5 minutes from our house) b/c we couldn't go any deeper into debt and it looked to me like OM spent more time there than the kids ever did. So she moved an hour away (5 minutes from OM) where she found "affordable" housing. If I make waves again I fear she'll react in a similar manner.
You are partially right Cobra, that I do feel empowered by being responsible for her happiness when I keep W, D9 and S6 in contact with each other. I never thought about it that way. Also respect is a biggie in my book. That may be the #1 thing that I've been fighting to get back since the bomb. DBing has greatly helped in that category. I am willing to let W go if it will ultimately make her happy. But when it comes to letting the kids go (even a tiny bit), it's something I find nearly impossible to even consider. I don't fear losing control of W anymore. It's the kids that I fear losing now.
A few proper boundaries are needed though. I plan to slowly put some in place. Keyword: slowly. That's where I've goofed before by being too brash and sudden with my attempts to implement some boundaries, thus making me look controlling.
Thankfully before I've reinforced those feelings in W. That was close. 
