Fell down on the job

[cinemanymph]

Thanks for the insight, HD. Your powers of deduction are in rare form today! You have H down to a tee. I wonder where H got the idea that it isn't ok not to know something? That if you don't know a thing, you ask about it or read about it to understand it. I never go out of my way to belittle my H intellectually. My Dad did not learn to read until he was in his 50s. I got used to dealing with his illiteracy with sensitivity.

Do you rmember when I mentioned trying to have a conversation about Lord of the Rings (which incidentally H is crazy about because his HS GF was into Tolkien) being a societal analogy? H replied, "For &@#%* sake, it's just a kids story". H only sees what's on the surface and that is why he can't see the deeper meaning of my actions regarding sex. All has seen is me using my past as an excuse not to meet his needs. With my recent growth, he thinks I was capable all along, but just didn't want to. How do I have a conversation about the complexities of response to sexual abuse with someone who won't even entertain the idea that Tolkien had more than a childrens story in mind when he wrote Lord of the Rings?

Lee,
I need to find a different way of saying things, because my way of saying things does not have much meaning for my H.

[sat567]

How do I have a conversation about the complexities of response to sexual abuse with someone who won't even entertain the idea that Tolkien had more than a childrens story in mind when he wrote Lord of the Rings?

Maybe you should start with something more simple. Ask him to read "Yertle the Turtle" by Dr. Seuss. Ask him what it's about. Is it just a story about a dictatorial turtle? Or is it a parable about Hitler and the evils of dictatorships? Then, maybe try Seuss' "The Sneetches" and see if he can pick up the pleas for racial tolerance.

Seriously, cin, some people just don't get it. Some people never will.

Hairdog

[cinemanymph]

I'm looking for my copy of "Green Eggs and Ham" .

[Greeneyedlass]

Cine,

(How do I have a conversation about the complexities of response to sexual abuse with someone who won't even entertain the idea that Tolkien had more than a childrens story in mind when he wrote Lord of the Rings?)

You have that conversation...because the two things you just compared above are nothing alike. One deals in reality as fact, the other in fantasy compared to reality. One is YOUR history, the other is fiction & entertainment.

I don't mean this to be harsh but the way you wrote that came across to me as sounding as though you don't think he has the intellectual capacity to understand what you need him to. He does, and I'm sure you believe he does....but you need to speak frankly, bluntly, no comparisons, no analogies....tell him the flat out bare-bones facts.

It sounds to me that perhaps he doesn't want to talk about the Lord of The Rings in a deeper sociological way because maybe that ruins the sheer entertainment value of it for him. That's how my H is. I can watch a movie and see the deeper meaning in it at times, but sometimes I also like to just enjoy what I'm watching and let it take me somewhere else....perhaps trying to dissect the movie in that fashion bursts that entertainment/fantasy bubble for him. I can just hear my H say to me sometimes...."Can't you just sit back and enjoy the movie?"

Just some observations & thoughts.

GEL

[Lillieperl]

Just to be contrary...

GEL wrote

I don't mean this to be harsh but the way you wrote that came across to me as sounding as though you don't think he has the intellectual capacity to understand what you need him to. He does, and I'm sure you believe he does

From what cine has said about him, I'm not sure he does. He reminds me very much of my father who was proud of being anti-intellectual. I remember he started taking some junior college classes when I was in college. He took an English class and they studied some story that I can't remember the name of... I think it was "The Bear." On the surface of it, this was about some guys who took a boy bear-hunting. But under the surface it was a coming of age, initiation story, and the teacher pointed out some of these themes. My father used to rant and rave about this story... "When the author wrote this, he needed money, he was hungry, he didn't write any 'initiation myth' story-- that's a bunch of intellectual cr@p! He needed the money! That's why he wrote it!" And on and on for years after he took that course. He discounted psychology, art, literature as a bunch of high-brow b.s. When I started taking graduate psychology classes! I could never talk to him about any of this stuff because he would just start ranting about how it was b.s., Freud was cr@p, Picasso was cr@p, modern art and humanistic psychology was lower than cr@p.

He was a pretty smart guy-- but totally closed to anything that seemed "intellectual" to him. My father was also a very angry man-- you could not have a convo without it turning into an argument. Cine's husband sounds a lot like him.

[Greeneyedlass]

Lillie,

Actually...I don't think I wrote what I meant all that clearly LOL. What I meant was, he has the capacity to understand why she has abuse related issues....not necessarily the "want" to understand the deeper lying sociological references in The Lord of the Rings.

I think though for him to relate and understand her abuse issues...she need to speak very plainly to him, no euphamisms, no analogies. We (women) often have a tendancy to use far more words than necessary to get our points across (I'm obviously as guilty as the next woman on this)...and by doing so we often unintentionally cloud our points.

That's more what I meant to say....probably could have used less words though LOL.

GEL

[cinemanymph]

GEL,

Look away while I hide my construct of intellectual superiority behind this curtian .

While it's true that my H doesn't read anything but the sports page and golf books/magazines, I know that he understands and organizes thoughts very well. He can remember very twisted plot lines of movies and the highlights of narratives.

When I begin to talk about my experience, there are actual events, the facts if you will. Then there are the effects of those events. That's where things get complicated, paradoxical even.

I think that HD had it right when he made the comment that my H is intimidated by things that he doesn't know. He feels small and stupid when confronted by something he doesn't know. He doesn't know which tools to use to find out something new. It's not just about not knowing, it's about a willingness to entertain new ideas. H is having difficulty in this area.

[Greeneyedlass]

Cine,

Ok...fair enough

GEL

[cinemanymph]

OMG Lillie,
You have just described some of the interactions that have taken place between my H and I. It makes me sad that one of my positive qualities is a source of shame and irritation to him. Maybe I do talk down to him, never intentionally. I'll have to watch myself.

[Lillieperl]

cine wrote

I'll have to watch myself.

Honey, if there's one thing you got from Undefended Love, it's don't WATCH yourself, BE yourself! Don't go back into hiding! You're smart, sexy, and beautiful-- put it out there!