Hey Paul, I just had a great idea. Buy some cheap clothing racks, or, better yet, just hang clotheslines from the rafters in your basement. While she is out of town, hang up all of her clothes. Put all her shoes in a big cardboard box. Put all her belts in another cardboard box. Put all this stuff next to her clothes in the basement. When she comes home, tell her you did some major renovation while she was gone, and than she now has a walk-in closet.
Oh, and when she goes down to investigate, lock the basement door.
Oh, and make sure she doesn't have her cellphone with her.
Quote: But the "Catch-22" that often happens is, men -- especially HD ones -- derive their confidence and their strength largely from how we feel about our sex life.
So it ends up: To improve your sex life, you have to become less "needy" and more attractive to your wife. In order to become more attractive to her, you have to become stronger and more confident. BUT TO BECOME STRONGER AND MORE CONFIDENT, YOU NEED TO HAVE A BETTER SEX LIFE!
I just don't agree with this. It strikes me as a huge copout, because you are allowing your sense of self to be determined *totally* by someone else. What happens to you if your wife (heaven forbid) dies? Did you have no confidence and strength prior to being in a relationship with a woman?
I'll be frank, I see this as weakness. A weakness that was there before, but which became more evident once you entered into a relationship. And it is a weakness that can *never* be addressed as long as it is couched as being your wife's fault.
I'm not faulting you, I have weaknesses as well, that have been exacerbated in my marriage. I am making attempts to deal with them. But I have to point the light at myself, figure out what and how to address them and then bring that into my relationship. If I keep believing that I am what I am today as a result of NOP, then I have given him a power over me that isn't rightfully his. And I would be taking the easy way out.
I agree with you that this is a weakness, or a shortcoming, that has to be overcome. It has to be DEALT with, and one can't merely say "I have no confidence anymore, and it's all her fault."
But it's still a REALITY, and it's not easy to overcome, even if one realizes that they HAVE to overcome it and break the cycle.
Also, speaking only for myself, I was NOT this way before my marriage, nor am I this way in all of the other areas of my life (professional, etc.). I am currently widely viewed as confident, articulate, witty -- even strong -- in friendships and in my career. And before I was married, I was even viewed that way in my intimate relationships ... I was always confident and strong.
But 20 years of being rejected has sucked that life out of me, I'm sorry.
Is that reality? Yes. Do I still have to strive to overcome that? Yes also.
But I can honestly say that it IS her rejection -- or at least, her rejection + how I have dealt (or didn't deal) with it -- that has caused my lack of confidence.
That's just a fact, not a copout. It's only a copout if I forever not try to overcome it.
Choc., who understands the point you're trying to make -- I just don't agree with it.
Sorry MrsNOP, but I have to side with choc on this one.
Every single HD woman on this board has commented at some time about how their husband’s constant lack of interest or outright rejection has caused them to question themselves. They’ve questioned their femininity and their attractiveness. It’s hurt their self-image and their self-worth. Why is it a copout for men to say something similar?
You come into the R with confidence in your strength and sexuality. But the continuous lack of interest and repeated rejection start sapping that confidence. If would take a VERY strong, confident, and emotionally impeccably healthy person to not let the sitch affect their confidence, their self-worth, and their behavior. But that almost unavoidable reaction just exacerbates an already bad sitch. And then you’re in the cycle choc described.
I agree that you can break the cycle. I agree that you can’t base your entire self-worth to be determined by someone else. But I also think it’s virtually impossible NOT to be affected in just the manner choc described.
Hmmmmmmmm I am thinking just maybe there could be more to this. Did she not want to buy the house you were in but you kept pushing for it? Like did she cave in and just do it even though she wasn't happy?
It sounds like this is something the two of you have disagreed on in the past. I agree her tantrum is like a 2 year old. But could it be possible she is doing something drastic because she hasn't been listened to any other way?
I chose the title "I Married the Wrong Woman" to show how my thinking has evolved over several years. This will, I hope, link you to my background info: Kids Sleeping in Bed
I must respond, however, to your comment that another man would have her "eating out of his hand." The reference is, I believe, to horses, indicating that a good horse trainer has such control of an animal that she will eat right out of his hand with no danger of his getting bitten. I did not enter marriage with this intent. I want an equal partner, not a beast to be whipped into shape. I had held out hope that W could evolve into partner worthy of my companionship. I am coming to the conclusion that this may never happen.
OG_Lou has about the same opinion as I have regarding a domicile. I have a short commute to work and would need a very good reason to exchange it for a much longer one. In addition, our cash flow each month is flat to negative. I am constantly exhorted to earn more money. But what is the purpose of life? To spend nearly all waking hours at work while the kids grow up without me? I don't think so. Funny thing is, W used to be the frugal one, insisting that we save. Now she wants to burn even more income.
Yes, I would agree with your assessment. She wanted a house that cost 50% more, and I didn't think we could afford it. Also her house needed many expensive repairs.
My frustration is with her random eruptions. A year or so will go by when she seems quite pleased with the house as it is. Then, one day, the house is inadequate and I am evil for having "forced" her to buy it. And if I agree to consider moving or expanding, she loses interest in favor of issues more pressing to her.
We have made the kitchen to our liking and added a bathroom with a steam sauna. We can do more. Our neighbors three houses down just added a second floor (we have only an unfinished attic). It's not unprecedented.
This is a case of life imitating fiction. She already has what amounts to a walk-in closet in the basement! A good sixth of the basement consists of a "room" albeit without a door, containing shelves, "elfa" drawers and hanging racks. Her clothes took up about 70% of this space. She also controlled 70% of the space in the upstairs bedroom. What she did was to expel me from the upstairs bedroom so that more of her stuff from the basement could join her stuff upstairs. But here's the kicker. She never wears 80% of this stuff. So I can't have a pair of underwear upstairs because she has to have some crapppy skirt that she hasn't worn in 10 years nearby.
What pisssed her off was that I had the audacity to suggest that she could go through her admittedly small closet upstairs and organize it, throwing out what she hasn't worn in 10 years. You'd think I had suggested we relocate to a commune in upstate Vermont.
Well - the advantage of the commune would be that there would be other people there to call her on her behavior. Her behavior was simply unacceptable under ANY circumstances. I don't care if she was angry. I don't care if she was disappointed. I don't care if she thinks you are a deadbeat. I just don't see any reason to behave in that fashion.
This isn't directly about your SL. It is about basic respect and basic rules of engagement. I suggest that you not only put your clothes back but quietly and firmly tell her that she may not move your items without permission, that you will not tolerate those kind of displays in front of your children and that you expect her to curb her behavior or you will insist upon couseling for her. I suggest that you detach. Do your own thing and let her stew in the emotional mess that she has made.
Is that harsh? Maybe. I am speaking as a woman who was formerly married to someone who liked to dump his emotional baggage upon me over some weird mundane detail like a closet. I would be left a crying, quivering mass of confusion and I can't stand to see people do this crap because of that history.
you crack me up