Hi Sikan! Welcome back. Glad you had a nice weekend despite the cold
You said: I can't post for very long unfortunately but I do want to mention one point. My landlord needs to know by 9/30 if I plan to renew my lease for another year. H and I have been actively talking about our future for some time. However, there are no dates attached to any of these talks. This weekend I mentioned that I would need to give my landlord notice and asked H if I should just renew for another year. He said not necessarily but could we talk about it later on. (we were eating) I said ok and tabled it for the time being. I'm planning on bringing this up again during one of our Sunday "walk and talks". I'm also going to discuss this with my DB coach next week. I have a little over a month but I wanted to get the ball rolling.
Maybe this lease issue will help to bump your living arrangment into the right direction . I'm glad you have a DB coach to consult. Please let us know what he/she says.
Take Care, SP
According to the Buddha, praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow may "come and go like the wind," but happiness comes if you can "rest like a great tree in the midst of them all."
And if it doesn't, don't worry too much. Try talking to your landlord. I'm a landlord and if someone told me they wanted to renew for month-to-month until their spouse decided what was going on, I would allow them to. Hopefully, your landlord is understanding.
I'm not planning on moving back in with him until we begin to address the underlying issues in our R. I'm glad for the opportunity to be able to do this via this end of my current lease. My R is way too important for me to be hasty with. H and I will have been separated for 1 year this Dec but technically not since the end of June/ beginning of July. H has been sleeping at my apt. every night for the last 6 or 7 weeks.
I want to be able to address the issues underlying things like OW, although the OW sitch isn't completely resolved so that will need to be dealt with directly on some levels. It's more important for me to see what created an OW sitch and work on those things instead of focusing on details like OW. In fact, I see her in a lot of ways as being just another form of escapism for my H, much like drinking. Unfortunately, OW happens to be well... another W!
Anyway, I would love your feedback on some of the things that I am turning around in my head these days, esp things my H and I discuss regarding our moving back in. I'm hoping things will begin to slow down here at work so that I can actually post some details instead of these brief updates.
Thank you both for your help with my sitch! I will continue to check in on both of your threads. Rotzilla, I think what you and your H are doing through your thread is awesome! Thank you both!
I think that is very positive to move slowly re: moving back in. My H did not leave our home during our M problems so I am not a wealth of info there but will give you any input I may have. I am glad to see you focusing on correcting issues with your R before moving into together. I will be watching to see how you address this as I think most Rs need to be able to address issues and not avoid them. Well, enough rambling...I have tons of work to do!
Take Care, SP
According to the Buddha, praise and blame, gain and loss, pleasure and sorrow may "come and go like the wind," but happiness comes if you can "rest like a great tree in the midst of them all."
I'm trying for a longer post today. So, I had a good session with my C last night. We talked about beginning to eliminate my need to control. First and foremost this is for me because I'm tired of living this way. First step to begin to deal with this is to address my constant obssessing over sitches I can't control. Right now on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst, I am at a 5 or 6. Ideally I want to be at a 3 generally with my bad days being a 5. I've had some really bad years where my good days were a 6 and my worst were off the charts! I've settled down a lot in the past five years. Still, I'm undermined by the thoughts and it's time to deal with them.
Lately, I have been obsessing about OW and my boss. My C's suggestion was to allow myself 30 mins to obsess everyday and after that to do serious thought-stopping whenever these two come up. Very DB, I thought. Anyway, I'm going to try it. I'm very curious to see what I would be like mentally.
I know this will have really good effects on my M. H and I had an intense discussion this morning where he called me on trashing OW under various topics. I don't trash OW directly but instead go after things that she does or likes. It needs to stop. My H wasn't harsh about it but basically made it clear that it has to come to an end. It's hard because I hate her and hate the fact that my H would find anything redeeming about her. But he has made it clear that he wants M to work so I need to for the sake of making it happen.
This is going to be hard!! But I'm going to do it regardless of any outcome or if my sitch changes for the better or worse. Those things cannot affect whether I make this change or not. It has to be done honestly and for the pure sake of my mental sanity and well-being.
I'm going to need a lot of walks and meditation. I think I'll also start posting my various obsessive fears on here as my outlet because I know my friends are tired of hearing me and I can't afford weekly sessions with a DB Counselor. Please keep in mind most of these are going to be very out-there thoughts but it helps me to look at them to trace them back to a point of reality and to put it into perspective.
Paranoid thoughts this afternoon- 1.H is friends with OW again and thinks OW is better than me because she is better than me at playing as if she is balanced, enlightened, and evolved. 2. H is angry about having more taxes taken out of paycheck to cover required federal amount and wants to use this to not be close with me or end M.
Fellow DBers- feel free to ask me about my paranoid thoughts. It'll give you more insight to my sitch, plus it helps me to examine them and find ways to realistically address them with myself and within my M.
I feel like I'm in wonderland these days with my M. Before any DBers assume that this means that all is perferct, keep in mind the real wonderland was a crazy place where everything was reversed and you didn't know if you were coming or going. So my M is kind of like that. Many, many positives coupled with WTFs?!
We are getting along better than ever before. H has begun to apply for new jobs. I'm beginning to work on eliminating control issues. H and I have begun dialogue to live together again. H agreed to counseling if we reach a stalemate in our R discussions.
Now here comes the WTFs. OW sitch. H and OW are co-workers. They became "friends" over two years ago when OW got divorced. H was OW's shoulder to cry on. First year of friendship H would mention to me when he was hanging out with OW. I got weird vibes from this woman from the very beginning although I'm also aware that a portion of that had to do with my own insecurities and control issues.
During first year, instead of asking directly about friendship with OW, I would "discuss" my insecurities with him. Now, looking back, I see how that created an image in my H's mind of how I'm not capable of dealing with H's being friends with women. Fast forward to H's depression and unhappiness escalating to where 5 nights out of the week H was out with "friends". No mention of hanging out with OW anymore but the friends he did mention weren't ones he would be really hanging out with on such a regular basis.
H's drinking and depression increase. I'm getting weirder vibes about OW, although there isn't anything that H is doing that would make me suspicious other than his distance and his going out all the time. Let's just say that my gut was telling me something.
My H has breakdown last Labor Day which lasts until end of Novemeber, when we decided to separate. In October I looked at H's cell phone and saw that 90% of calls were to OW. I didn't check text messages. I ask H if anything was going on and he said no. I make mistake of calling OW and that blows up in a big way where H was incensened and screaming that I humiliated him. I'm hysterical because I think that I will lose H forever but am torn because I KNOW that something is up with OW.
H and I separate in Dec and it is very emotional for the both of us. The weekend before I move out I find sexually explicit photos of OW on H's computer. H swears up and down that he doesn't know how they got there. H and I work through this issue like the phone message. Partly resolved but confirming that both of us want to make things work.
Fast forward again and in April I find blog page that H has kept since Jan. 2004. Most convos are between H and OW, who has her own page. Reading OW's blog I find that H hangs out with her and lies to me about it. OW regards H as a hero and considers him one of her daily essentials. It's very easy to take blog postings out of context and I did just that a couple of times. Confronted H with blog page find and H blows up again and says that they are just "friends" that I am paranoid, etc...
I find DBing and put it into action. Begin to work with DB counselor. Our M begins to improve greatly. H constantly says that he and I are closer than we have ever been. A few weeks ago my DBing was put to the test when OW called while H and I were out together. H and I had argument then a very intense discussion about why H spent so much time with OW. I DBed my a** off on that one!
Later that week, I had an even greater test when H and I were out at a show that OW also attended. OW was agressive and inappropriate but again I was a very zen DBer.
Recently, H began new blog page and invited me to it. Something he obviously has not done with other blog page. New blog page is very creative, very positive. H's other blog page is more negative and kind of childish. I checked today and saw that he is maintaining both pages.
This is where I am dumbfounded. H is obviously making very positive changes in his life but yet is still holding on to this bulls**t. H and I are both 34 years old. We are not some suburban couple that is settled down with a house and kids. However, a lot of the people on his original blog page are anywhere from 5 to 10 years younger than he is. OW is 4 years younger but is a ridiculous scenester.
I just can't figure out where my H is. I'm not surprised that he maintains both pages. In fact, I kind of expected it. I just want to be able to understand him and that's hard to do when he has these two sides to him with one that is kept hidden from me. Note- H has admitted that he has problems with secrecy and our R was the first time that he has acknowledged this problem.
I'm hoping for some feedback from my fellow DBers. I feel that H and I have made some very significant progress. I also feel that I am personally beginning to make progress. That's why I moved to this forum of piecing from newcomers. I would like some help and perspective as I begin the process of moving back in with my H. Any help is greatly appreciated!
Gosh Sikan, would it be appropriate to respond to every post on this thread? I can relate to so many of the things you have written. Insecurity once the friendship with OW ended.. and the fact that it ended over hurt feelings and not because H chose the M over the A. That was a BIGGY for me. It's a tape that has ran in my head that I just once want to hear him tell her what a mistake their relationship was, and that he loves me. Getting better though, and he has acknowledged that I feel this way and he understands. How's it going on your end?
Also can relate to an H who doesn't have a lot of friends. My H keeps his social life almost totally separate from our family life. Except our church friends. He knows a lot of people and when we're out together he sees them, but doesn't introduce me! Still, he has few MF that he socializes with. Just a couple of golf buddies and I don't like one of them. But, Ive backed off criticizing that friend because I want to encourage H to develop those friendships.
Gonna keep reading..just wanted to let you know that I understand so much of what you've felt/are feeling. Maybe the healing process goes through very similar phases for everyone.
Are you working on your goals? Do you have a list that will help you chart progress? I always had some general goals, but once I got a few on paper that are attainable in a short amount of time, I find that I concentrate on them, and it's easier to stop the thoughts of what hasnt been done, or needs to be done. It's so much easier to shelf that problem and say I'll deal with it when it's the appropriate time, but right now, XYZ is a priority so I'll concentrate on that.
It's also taking H off the hook for all my unrealistic expectations. He can't possibly fix everything in a day either, so having goals together, agreeing on them, and working together is keeping me from resenting that he isn't trying harder. I always know where he stands and what his focus is. And, I know if I have a concern, he'll listen and consider it. My personal goals are also keeping me focused. This week I'm focusing on getting to the gym regularly, dusting off the guitar H bought me years ago and learning to play, and the writing habit I abandoned is getting a rebirth too.
Just some thoughts on how goal setting is helping our sitch. Especially when the emotions make for confusion, it's a relief to have something else to concentrate on, and celebrate! when a goal is met.
Hold on to the progress you're making! Recognize it and keep looking forward!
Thank you for stopping by. Yes, I need to create a list of goals for my M and write them down so that I can see them before me and not just in my head.
I kind of screwed up last night. I'm kind of emotional to begin with but it's that time and I'm VERY emotional during that time but it's getting better as I continue to work on myself. Well last night I decide to engage my H in a convo about past issues that were a concern under the guise of "addressing" this issues towards moving back in together.
Earlier in the evening I was acting distant towards H because of the fact that I saw he was maintaing his friendship with OW. This was compounded when H got a call on his cell and wouldn't answer it in front of me. OW often calls or texts H on his cell. I had my hand on H's leg when call came in. I unconciously removed my hand from his leg and H put it back on saying " You don't have to stop just because my phone rang" Always that same damn elephant in the room!
Anyway, I'm looking at this several different ways. I first have to weigh negatives with positives. Many, many positives. Negatives- the same negatives. On a bad day like yesterday, I can't tell if I have made any progress towards the negatives. I guess that's where my M goals come into play.
I find that I am assuming ALOT about H's "friendship". At this point, H has not and will not admit that this friendship is an EA or that it is even inappropriate. I know that he knows that it causes me great pain, yet he continues to be friends with her. He says that he isn't friends with her anymore and there's a good chance that he has scaled down their friendship but it is still there.
I assume that it is because I am not enough for him. That he needs to go elsewhere because I am simply not enough for him. That is coming out of my insecurities. When I have voiced my concerns that he needs something else other than me, he is very quick to say that I am his ideal. When I have asked if he was attracted to her, he said no because she is not you.
So there are many of these assumptions flying around. When I'm very down I feel that he really doesn't want me and that if somehow he could combine the two of us he would have his perfect woman. H works in an industry that caters to urban social scenes. H is not heavy into any scene but he has a need to be accepted by the people in them. It's hard for me to get over being insecure about my H's need to be part of the scenes, especially as he is growing older.
I want to be able to be secure that H loves me for who I am and for me to believe that I truly am his ideal. I wish that H could see that he is so much better than the people in these scenes. It's one thing to look that way in your 20s. It's another thing to still look the same way and do the same things in your 30s or beyond.
So, looking back the conversation was pointless. Twice H said " I don't want to talk about this right now." The second time he asked me why I couldn't just let it go. Stubborn me, I had to pursue it. I get to these points where I am so consumed by my hurt of H's slow progress, continued friendship with OW, and that I have never been able to ever directly address these issues without a huge fight erupting that I cling to these other battles as a way of making it seem that I haven't completely rolled over for him.
It's an ego fake out. Winning the battle last night did not bring me any closer to my H. In fact, it pushed him away. Then I start obsessing that each little fight will bring him closer to OW. I apologized to H this morning. H called me before he got into work to say " I love you". We've talked a couple of times during the day today and I have a session with my DB coach tonight.
I'm trying to look at each slip-up as a way to test where I am in all of this.
Well last night I decide to engage my H in a convo about past issues that were a concern under the guise of "addressing" this issues towards moving back in together.
Please realize that Im giving advice to myself on this, so take it for what it is... a fellow DBer who's struggling with the same stuff. Was this a good time to approach a R convo for you? Vent here, find a friend who'll listen and reassure you. Take a hot bath and relax!! Anything but succumb to the urge to have a R convo about the past that your H doesn't want and that starts with you in an emotional state. I'm very slowly learning that my H wants the past behind us.. forever. He says discussing wears him out because he can't relate to the person he was that was hurting me that way, and it brings up a lot of guilt that crushes his PMA.
Gosh again on you assuming alot and your H viewing the friendship differently. We have the same issue! My H says it was really just a friendship. He didn't see any harm in the convos, was constanly surprised by my reaction to his contact with OW. It only got better when his depression eased up and he found his feelings, including feelings of empathy for mine. That and his R with OW self destructed. He started to see her for the sl*t that she is, and saw me as his sweet W.. the person that truly understands and loves him.
I assume that it is because I am not enough for him. That he needs to go elsewhere because I am simply not enough for him. That is coming out of my insecurities. When I have voiced my concerns that he needs something else other than me, he is very quick to say that I am his ideal. When I have asked if he was attracted to her, he said no because she is not you.
Here again, I know how you feel! My H said the same thing "She's not you" "I wasn't really attracted to her.. it didnt feel right" "She was just "there". How are you handling your insecurities? The measure of our worth is not determined by someone else (remind me of that!) It's determined by how we feel about ourselves. I've always looked to my H to make me happy and to measure myself based upon how he feels about me. That's gotta stop! It's one of my biggest goals.. how about you? Fortunately, I'm learning through my bible study what my value is. I don't know what your religious beliefs are, and it doesn't matter, but what will it take to convince you that you are valuable just the way you are? I was looking at the perfectionist thread.. yikes. Us women, why do we strive to be perfect and earn love? I mean, it's one thing to strive to be loveable, but to not love who we are without always thinking we must do more, be more? And the strange thing is, when I ask my H what do I need to change?.. he basically says he loves me just the way I am. Sure, he'd like me to not be so bossy, he'd like me to let go of the past, but in general, he is happy with me and the A had nothing at all to do with me. Your H says you are his ideal.. it sounds like you do the same things as I do.. push H away looking for validation. In trying to get confirmation of what we've already been told, we are becoming less than ideal in their eyes. Maybe they just want us to chill out, enjoy their company, love the stuffing out of them, and be happy.
Hey, let us know how it goes with the DB coach. Reading your posts helps me personally so much. It feels good to know that I'm not insane and someone else is working through the same issues and taking baby steps. Especially you saying winning the battle didn't bring you any closer to H. I'll have to remember that!
. I'm glad you have a DB coach to consult. Please let us know what he/she says.
