Thanks, mqo, for the info... I have to say that my feeling all along is that 90 percent of my H's LD-ness is due to " state of mind" factors rather than state of body, and it's pretty hard not to personalize some of it because it is, well, personal. While I am proud of the efforts H and I are both making to open up the channels of connection, there's something sad about the whole thing too...we have lost so much ground from the early days. But I am not dwelling there and am moving forward with the show.
Hi IHJ You said - "I have to say that my feeling all along is that 90 percent of my H's LD-ness is due to " state of mind" factors rather than state of body, and it's pretty hard not to personalize some of it because it is, well, personal."
The mind is the real sex organ. All the baggage we have in our marriages will obviously leak into the sexual parts and vice versa. It's really a catch-22.
You are correct in not dwelling on the past but boy is it hard. I have a very hard time with this. I expect H to act like his usual LD self even though he has been showing a much higher drive lately. I really should be embracing this but my guard is up.
Quote: Hi IHJ You are correct in not dwelling on the past but boy is it hard. I have a very hard time with this. I expect H to act like his usual LD self even though he has been showing a much higher drive lately. I really should be embracing this but my guard is up.
This is so true. At a certain point you'll see evasive behavior in anything.
My W for example would often leap out of bed in the weekends and move to the living room for either watching TV or surfing the web. Evasive behavior to avoid morning time intimacy. If I woke up before she left the bed, and we (kind of) snuggled, she would quickly say something as in 'I'm feeling restless' or 'let's do something today' and jump out of the bed.
Anyway, recently (after we had some good talks on this evasive behavior and how it hurt me, and how we should stop 'playing games'), I was half awake in the morning, and I noticed my wife sneaking out of the bed towards the living room. After like 5 minutes, I became really frustrated and angry, put on my clothes and walked to the living room telling her (in a more or less angry way) how "If you dosn't want me around, then fine! I'm gone for the rest of the day, do whatever you want!"
Turns out she wanted to surprise me with coffee and breakfast, and she was waiting for the coffee to finish.
Needless to say it wasn't the best of days, but it is the kind of paranoia one gets, and it is the main reason why those cames need to stop. It doesn't do one much good if there isn't much trust in each other's motives and everything starts becoming 'suspicious'.
Quote: Anyway, recently (after we had some good talks on this evasive behavior and how it hurt me, and how we should stop 'playing games'), I was half awake in the morning, and I noticed my wife sneaking out of the bed towards the living room. After like 5 minutes, I became really frustrated and angry, put on my clothes and walked to the living room telling her (in a more or less angry way) how "If you dosn't want me around, then fine! I'm gone for the rest of the day, do whatever you want!"
Turns out she wanted to surprise me with coffee and breakfast, and she was waiting for the coffee to finish.
The great irony here is that she actually thought she was showing her love more by the act of service of making you breakfast than by a morning snuggle. Is there any LD or former LD on the board who can explain why she would feel that cooking breakfast was a more loving gesture than cuddling (even with no "sex"). Is it because the cooking is work and effort and the snuggling is easy, so it doesn't count?
My bf's first words in the morning are, "Is the coffee ready?" Then he'll sit up on the side of the bed (while I'm lying naked beside him) and pet and baby-talk the dog. I mean, when he wakes up, clearly he has the impulse to greet and express affection. So the dog and I are both lying there-- and he chooses the dog. (I know others of you have this dog thing. I LIKE that he loves the dog-- I just wish I could get some of that action.) Then he's off to the kitchen without even patting me on the hip or anything. It never ceases to be a mystery.
Re Lil. Then he'll sit up on the side of the bed (while I'm lying naked beside him) and pet and baby-talk the dog. I mean, when he wakes up, clearly he has the impulse to greet and express affection. So the dog and I are both lying there-- and he chooses the dog. (I know others of you have this dog thing. I LIKE that he loves the dog-- I just wish I could get some of that action.) Lil, just change the gender words to female and I would say Bingo! Me too. But every once in a while I get lucky.
I guess there is little pressure from the pets to preform the intimacies. When you want to quit with the cuddly stuff the pets don't get upset. Yes, it feels like I don't count for much sometimes. BB wanted to see the new grand kitten so we went. I played with the grand kids.
We decided to drop the schedule and just discuss each nite what we're feeling and see what develops. On Tues. H called me from work at the end of the day to say he is completely exhausted and had a really stressful day. Being the ever empathic W, I take this cue and say to him that we'll just have a cuddle nite ( meaning no sex) and this would have been FINE, until he says, " I'll be able to get some sleep without you all over me." He said it in a "joking" manner, and I called him on it right away, but the damage was done. In his mind, he's this hard working saint being forced to ML to his needy, selfish wife. I had that ole BB thought: Why would I want to ML to someone who doesn't want me? When we went to sleep, I went to bed first, and I just didn't even want to sleep there. I got up and went to the guest room. He came in, and I explained that when he is ready to hear my wants and work with me at nite, then to let me know; otherwise, I'd sleep here. We ended up ML very passionately.
I guess I have just grown tired of working around his LD-ness. It's one thing if he is really not up for things...I can and have been accomodating, kind, patient, etc. It's another thing when he makes flip comments about the whole situation. There's a time for compassion and a time for setting boundaries, just wish I knew when to do what.
Quote: he says, " I'll be able to get some sleep without you all over me." He said it in a "joking" manner, and I called him on it right away, but the damage was done. In his mind, he's this hard working saint being forced to ML to his needy, selfish wife. I had that ole BB thought: Why would I want to ML to someone who doesn't want me? When we went to sleep, I went to bed first, and I just didn't even want to sleep there. I got up and went to the guest room. He came in, and I explained that when he is ready to hear my wants and work with me at nite, then to let me know; otherwise, I'd sleep here. We ended up ML very passionately.
What caused him to change his mind? Was it your pulling away? Did that scare him or arouse him?
Quote: The great irony here is that she actually thought she was showing her love more by the act of service of making you breakfast than by a morning snuggle. Is there any LD or former LD on the board who can explain why she would feel that cooking breakfast was a more loving gesture than cuddling (even with no "sex"). Is it because the cooking is work and effort and the snuggling is easy, so it doesn't count?
Well, it was a mistake by me. But it perfectly displays how your anger and frustration make your super sensitive for the behavior itself, the behavior that's most hurtful. It was a nice gesture. By now, any tlc, even if it is in the form or 'providing service' I welcome with joy. Which makes it all the more sad, as by this unfortunate distrust of motives, the day/moment was utterly spoiled, and what could have been me approving and stimulating affectionate behavior (her way) turned into another painful moment...
llp wrote:
Quote: My bf's first words in the morning are, "Is the coffee ready?" Then he'll sit up on the side of the bed (while I'm lying naked beside him) and pet and baby-talk the dog. I mean, when he wakes up, clearly he has the impulse to greet and express affection. So the dog and I are both lying there-- and he chooses the dog. (I know others of you have this dog thing. I LIKE that he loves the dog-- I just wish I could get some of that action.) Then he's off to the kitchen without even patting me on the hip or anything. It never ceases to be a mystery.
I so so so totally could have written that! With my W it is the cat. He kind of lurches in the bedroom in the morning. What happens most of the time is that she taps the sheets inviting the cat to come up on the bed (which he eagerly does), and then she starts cuddling him with all the standard 'pooh pooh, look at that happy face, look at that furry cute kitten' talk. It leaves me utterly bewildered as obviously she is into affection and cuddling, but only if it concerns cats, not her H? Most damaging is when she then looks at me and says something like 'Isn't he cute?!'
Is there anyone who knows an appropiate answer to the latter question?
Among my response thus far (agreed, not all are 'that' productive or 'smart')
- Yes
- I guess so
- Cuter than me it seems
- I would be if I got nice cuddles each and every morning
- You realize I hate that cat by now, not?
- Should I grow a fur?
- I'll go make coffee
Lil... You know how GEL said that she rarely cries? Well, I am the opposite of that...my emotions are very apparent, and H is immune to a lot of it. But in this case, I was very anxious, very sad, really at a breaking point, and I think H sensed it.
The emotions and drama of it all stirred up the passion, but it really is draining, and I hope we can find passion from more of a place of " good feeling" between the two of us.
Yes he is, and if I got my testicles and fingernails surgically removed, you'd probably think I was pretty cute, too. 'Scuse me while I cough up this furball.
Is there any LD or former LD on the board who can explain why she would feel that cooking breakfast was a more loving gesture than cuddling (even with no "sex"). Is it because the cooking is work and effort and the snuggling is easy, so it doesn't count?