Hey Deb, Zukesters is on his way home from work now, so he can't reply.
I think he is trying to find out from his mom more about his dad, or maybe some character flaw he has always had that she may know about. His dad was an alcoholic. No indication he cheated on his mom, but alcoholics frequently do. He didn't really know his dad, so maybe he is thinking she will give some guidance to him.
Mostly, I think he realizes an apology is long overdue to her. I never told my family or friends, although I am very close to them, because I always had faith the first time around that we would work things out. So, I talked to his mom because she is his mom and I knew she would forgive him. She was my support, along with this BB, of course. He never said thank you to her for being there for me, and never said he was sorry for the pain he caused her.
Zuki here, Deb, Yes I felt commited to my wife. During the first time I felt "disconected" from her. We reconnected and healed. After contact resumed, I still felt connected to her and that we had moved on with our lives but I had this secret side of me that I hid from her. The OW's phone calls to me were annoying because our conversations were never conversations. I believe it was the language barrier. But I somehow felt obligated or something to talk to her and perpetuate the lie. At one point OW had even said that she had been admitted to the hospital because she was so distraught over our first break-up. I tell you, when you are involved with an OP, you can't truly see what's going on until you have absolute and complete detachment. I guess I didn't fully detach the last time. I am now. How do I know? My wife asks me "what's different about how you feel this time verses how you felt last time?" All I can tell her is there is DEFINETELY something different but I'm having a hard time discribing it. But just because I haven't found the words yet, doesn't mean it's not there.
Zilla here. We came here together both to try to help other people, and also to get help for our problems. I need my LL met - more PT. (which I can understand now why he wouldn't do it - I think at least - that guilt probably kept him from it... as much as because of my weight problem.) He feels I am controlling - which I concede I can be, although I say it is because he is so passive, someone has to take control... but I also realize that I do have to allow him more control. Things we will be working on in the future, IF we get past this.
But, to answer your real question, yes, I had a gut feeling. For some time I did know something was wrong. When he is with her, he drinks more (usually just drinks socially, but when he was having his EA, he would drink nightly - something he did in his first marriage because of his unhappiness) He would mope around, his words slurred (if anyone knows someone who is depressed, it is a sure sign of depression), he was never happy, he withdrew, smiled less, didn't want to go out and do things with his family as much. I knew something was wrong, and I didn't feel it was with me because when he was with me - I mean really with me and present with me physically and emotionally - he was very happy.
The first time around she made him miserable. This time around, he was miserable as well. Like my ex-BF drug addict - he was happy when high but miserable the rest of the time because he didn't like himself and always hurt those he loved. It's the only way I can describe my H's sitch.
My heart goes out to both of you....I can relate, my H did have EA twice, but 9 yrs apart and with 2 different women. Zilla, you are in my prayers, I sort of understand what you are feeling here....and while I can say I don't understand your H's actions, I think you can be proud of him in at least this way - here is a man who has the courage to come here with you, admit his wrongs, and do his best to make it right!
Now, can I ask your H - please keep posting what your thoughts are during this - it would help so much those of us who are on this side, to see/hear what our spouse may be thinking or feeling. My H has refused to speak to me about his feelings or thoughts in losing our family....but I still have enough faith in him as a good man to know he is feeling pain and confusion, even if he isn't expressing it. So your H's perspective here could be priceless to some of us.
Now having said that, can I just offer you whatever support I can? I don't know what that is, but my heart just hurts for what I know you are feeling right now. I think you and I may be very similar - my H also said I was controlling, and my defense is I only controlled when he didn't and it needed done...then it became a habit! I was not there for him in the ways he recognized, and he turned to someone else to feel wonderful. My H did tell me after the first EA that it was an escape for him, he always knew it wasn't real life, and that in real life he loved me, but he was needing female attention that I wasn't giving at that time (3 babies in 5 years), and instead of being direct and letting me know, he went out to get his ego stroked somewhere else. Does it make it better? Well, no, but knowing it was his ego and not his love was the only thing that meant I was willing to forgive.
It doesn't sound like this woman is really going to be a threat to your marriage. She has moved, and your H says he is more annoyed by her calls....but she is playing the helpless female and he feels obligated in a way to continue the contact (To H - STOP!) You can get her out of the picture, work on your marriage, and still be together - but you are right it will be harder this time.
We seem to find out we can always trust our gut, don't we? I knew the second EA was coming almost from the day the OW started making a play for my H. I saw the change in her behavior toward me, and toward him. He wouldn't listen to me, and fell right into it, even with the EA in our past - he wouldn't trust my instincts that this was a woman to stay away from. Sometimes women can sense these things much better than men.
Good luck to the both of you! We are all rooting for you here, and I, for one, don't consider this a failure....it may be a setback, but NOT a failure!
Hi VJ38, Thanks for the encouraging words. I realize my perspective here is a precious commodity and I hope that I will be able to help others in any way I can. Sometimes I'm not the greatest at converting my thoughts into words but I will do my best. I would really like to see some good come out of this.
VJ, thank you so much for your kind words. My heart goes out to *everyone* on this BB. I am so embarrassed by this whole thing... Zuki and I had discussed being able to help others. I was helped so much on this BB. I had thought that showing our success would help - especially those newbies that are asking "does this system really work?" Then when this whole thing happened, I felt like a fraud. (I know, it wasn't me...) But, anyway, trying to see the good in this, I think Zuki being here and perhaps us working things out together - whatever our future winds up being - will help a lot of people. Somehow, that almost makes it worth the pain and tears I have endured these last few days.
Please don't feel embarrassed, or like a fraud AT ALL! This is as real as it gets - real life, with real problems, real mistakes - life gets messy sometimes....that's how we ALL have found ourselves to be on this BB VJ
I am not embarrassed to be HERE - I just mean that in public, I feel like people can see through me. When I was in the bookstore picking out "surviving infidelity" books, I felt like everyone in the store could feel when I entered and knew that someone in the store had been cheated on. Crazy, huh? I hide the title of the book when I am at the gym because I don't want the guy on the machine next to me to look over and pity me or have contempt for me. In short, I guess I feel like I am wearing a scarlet letter. I know it's crazy, and no one else cares around me. But I FEEL like they do, and that's what matters to me right now.
I can understand that feeling....when H first said he wanted a D, it felt so strange to go anywhere in public - I would be in the grocery store just amazed that life was going on as normal for everyone else....my mind knew no one else would have blinked an eye that my world just crashed, but if felt so huge to me that it seemed like the universe should be feeling it too!
But something this has also done is make me realize that we all wear our "masks" in public...and I will never hear someone say "I'm divorced" and just shrug it off saying "oh, that's too bad"....I know there is an entire life-changing story of pain and loss behind those words now. I wish I could have gone through life NEVER knowing what this feels like....!
But almost. 