Former DBer and H need your help

[sage]

Rottzuki,

WELCOME!!! I think it's awesome that you are here! And I love the beautiful words that Rottzilla has written about your reconcilliation.

I'm not sure how I would answer the question. I think the first thing that comes to mind is that I had a part of my life that was my own.

I don't find this confusing or surprising at all (although 5 years ago I would have). One of the major signs I missed in my M with h was how he felt about not having any space -- not even that I was crowding him (though I'm sure I was) but more that we were both so laden with expectations and "shouldas" and "musts" about the physical and emotional parts of our M that I don't think he felt there was room for him to relax and make his own decisions and have his own thoughts, etc. TBH, there are times when I fear that he still feels that way but isn't even aware of it...he often says stuff like "IF it's ok with you I"m going to ..." . When I tell him it makes me feel like he's asking me permission, he says he's not really, it's just his way of communicating (must be a mars thing!).

Anyway, as for the PI reason you're here...I'm wondering if expectations or shoulds or the feeling of demands is playing into the problem?

And, of course, Michele would ask "what's different about the times when you DO feel like PI with w? what are you each doing differently?"

Sage

PS My h is LD than I am and has said in the past that sometimes if it's been too long since he's initiated he feels even more unsure about doing it...one thing that sometimes works for folks is actually having schedule PI -- it's kind of like exercise...you don't want to do it if you haven't in a while but once you force yourself to do it a few times....

[sage]

Now, it's your job to find "you" time. No excuses, just do it. Get up and work out. Go out after work and go for a bike ride without me. Go polish your car/bike. Go putter around the basement. Do your karate again. I don't care, but you HAVE to do something! I can't be happy if you are not. And you want me to be happy, riiiighhht??? Ha ha ha. LOVE you baby.

Just find time and I will stop scheduling your entire life for you. I admit I have that habit.

R -- I can't tell the tone of your post but even this sounds a little controlling to me, ya know? Now h has the "job" to find time and you give him a bunch of suggestions? I get the sense that there's more here to the story but it still sounds like you are "giving" h the time....that may not convey to him the sense of independence he was hoping for.

Sage

PS just so you know, I struggle with this mightily and still haven't come up with a solution in my M -- how to convey "okayness" with the other doing their thing without sounding controlling about it!!!

[SophieL]

Hi Rottzuki and Rottzila

I think it is really great that you are both doing this together.

Rottzuki, your point about enjoying the separation from your M that the EA gave was something that my H also brought up. He also said that the ow was like a drug. In my case, the drug is still Hs choice.

Sending you all the best wishes. I look forward to reading more about how the two of you resolve your issues.

[VJ39]

Hi - I think this is a great idea, the two of you doing this!
In my M, there were a lot of the same things. I come from a very female-centered family - Mom was always in control, and Dad was sort of just there. H is exactly the opposite. I can see that I have a huge tendency to control, not because I think H can't or shouldn't, but just because that was normal to me. H started to feel he was just a paycheck, and it was MY family, not our family. Now, that is the farthest thing from what I was feeling. I started to do things when he didn't have time - I was taking over to ease his burden, but he saw it as me just taking over and pushing him out. So I have told him I recognize this, and am still hoping we get to the point you are someday.

I think we all have these personality traits that can cause friction in a marriage, but that doesn't mean we can't learn to handle them. In my case, I would have liked it if H would have learned to say "Hey, you are taking over again, step back and let's rethink - I want to have an opinion here". I probably would have laughed and agreed, b/c I recognize that in myself. But when it is not communicated, and the other partner withdraws and resents, that is when trouble starts.

Anyhow, I look forward to following this thread. I am very excited to maybe learn a little more about how the male mind works! VJ

[rottzilla]

As usual Sage, you are right on. I just get frustrated because H says quite often that he feels out of control and I am in control, yet when I tell him to go ahead and do what he wants, he just keeps on not taking time for himself.

How am I supposed to let him know that it is OK to take time for himself without telling him it is? I just don't know. I have felt a long time like I have been trapped in this mess. If I say "go ahead and take time for yourself," now I am scheduling, but if I don't say anything, he feels like he "can't" because he has so many other "chores" that have to be done first.

Like sometimes I will get up and start cleaning house and he will be laying in bed relaxing. He will get up and start cleaning, although I know that he has had a tough week and would likely rather stay in bed. Now, don't get me wrong, I love that he is caring and so concerned for me that he feels he has to pitch in. But sometimes it's that sense of responsibility that makes ME feel trapped. Then I feel like I have to sit down and watch television or else he will be miserable.

Now, that brings me back to the DB mantra Michele says, which is "if they don't want to do it, they wouldn't be doing it." Right? But I think some of you can see what I am saying.

I guess what my post was meant to say was not how it came out. So, thank you for pointing it out, and please let me rephrase... "hey, H, I am letting you know that your sentiment about needing you time is OK with me. I am trying to let you know that I love you and sometimes need time apart also, to find time to center myself and make myself stronger and happier so when we ARE together, we can be the happiest we can be. I WANT you to take time for yourself. I am not giving you "permission" because you don't need that from me. But what I am doing is trying to convey that not only is it OK with me, but very important to me that you do take time for yourself. However, given past performance, I have my suspicions that rather than you taking the time you and I need to make this relationship work, I feel that perhaps you will continue to complain about it and not actually take action to make that time happen. Instead of ASSuming this, however, I will make it a point to believe that you will see the importance of "you" time and will make that time for yourself for the betterment of our marriage."

There, was that better put? I hope so, because I really don't want to be a controlling person. My stepmother once told me that I am a stressful person to be around becuase I am always going and going and it makes those around me feel as if there is a whirlwind around me and it stresses them out. I don't want to be that person. I know my H has become more stressed since we have been together, and I don't want that to happen. He is such a laid back person and it is one of the reasons I fell in love with him in the first place. Because he stopped my world from spinning long enough for me to actually enjoy it. I don't know what drives me so hard, but I never do anything half assed. Instead, I probably go to the other extreme. I really just want to be able to slow down. But it is so hard...

[rottzilla]

VJ, I think this puts it so succinctly. THANK YOU for this post. This is how I feel also... sometimes I would like it very much if Zuki-man would just say HEY! Stop doing that! Instead I feel as if he sometimes doesn't want to hurt my feelings and instead internalizes it and then it grows to resentment.

In my case, I would have liked it if H would have learned to say "Hey, you are taking over again, step back and let's rethink - I want to have an opinion here". I probably would have laughed and agreed, b/c I recognize that in myself. But when it is not communicated, and the other partner withdraws and resents, that is when trouble starts.

Am I being controlling if I ask him to voice his feelings? I feel like I am.

[honeypot]

imo, it's not controlling to ask him to divulge his feelings--he's an equal partner in the M, and that's expected kwim? You're not a mind reader, blah blah.

However, when he does reveal his feelings--as he did with the independence/freedom stuff, then the control came in when you replied, Oh!! Ok, well here's what you should do....

Perhaps you can practice just letting him put his feelings to words and saying, I support you in whatever you do to try and alleviate that feeling.

That way, you put the onus on HIM to foster his own independence (where it belongs, after all) and you take yourself out of the controlling seat.

[2much]

I also want to say that I think this is a great idea!! It will help a lot of us see both sides of the M!!

For me, I was VERY controlling in our M at first. I hated when H did things w/out me. I felt that he didnt love me or didnt want to be around me when he went out and I stayed home. Then we would argue, and he would get angry and I would get hurt. It sucked!! AT the time, I didnt see how much it was affecting our M, but when H was having EA, and I was DBing...I learned to do things on MY own, which in turn, helped me to understand that when H did things on his own, it was not about not being with me, it was about having some "his" time. Now, H does his things, I send him off with a kiss and a "have fun" instead of an arguement! And you know what...he doesnt do things w/out me as much now either!! Kind of ironic, huh? If there is a time though when I feel like he is "doing his own thing" a bit too much, I just voice my opinion, or ask for a little bit of "us" time so that I dont feel like I am missing out on spending time with him too. My .02 anyways...

[Rottzuki]

Yes, Sage. I think that's what I was trying to convey.

"R -- I can't tell the tone of your post but even this sounds a little controlling to me, ya know? Now h has the "job" to find time and you give him a bunch of suggestions? I get the sense that there's more here to the story but it still sounds like you are "giving" h the time....that may not convey to him the sense of independence he was hoping for."

[rottzilla]

Hey 2much. Thanks for your input. I don't think- and correct me if I'm wrong Zuki - that I make H feel as if he can't do his own thing by anything I do or say. It's more of a feeling he has that he will disappoint me if he just does it... But, maybe I am wrong again. I place a lot of blame on my MIL, maybe incorrectly, but she is the guilt queen, and he grew up feeling a lot of guilt in her house. She still guilts him, but doesn't mean to. She really wants to just love him, but I think he gets a lot of guilty feelings from MIL's style of mothering.

Perhaps you can practice just letting him put his feelings to words and saying, I support you in whatever you do to try and alleviate that feeling.

That way, you put the onus on HIM to foster his own independence (where it belongs, after all) and you take yourself out of the controlling seat.

Honeypot, I LOVE you for helping me. Thanks. I think that may help. Sometimes it's not what you say but how you say it. I will try that. Thanks a million!!!