Re: jenoftheislandThe biggest problem I see is the fact that it isn't changing on the inside. Inside, I'm still LD, dispite all the hard work I've done. I'm trying to think sexy, read sexy novels,
I am happy to see you are trying. I did not read what you were doing IRL. I do feel the frustrations of LD and HD men and women on this forum. Simce I am not LD I don't know how to help LD women or men with personal experiences. The closest I came to being LD physically but never mentally, was/is when I have back troubles. It last for a few days to a few months.

I wish I had answers for you but can try to help you see how it feels from the higher drive persons perspective so it does not lead to total dissconnecting from your spouse. I empathise with you and maybe should comment more towards the line of imagining how that feels if I were in your shoes. Lil does a much better job in this area.

Believe me when I say I never thought you did a bait and switch job.

I appreciate the fact that no matter how I look (after 4 babies)....he still wants me that way
I feel this way too and many guys feel this way. Tough to get this point through to the LD person. I have heard "If I had better looking___________ you would love me more." basically a no win situation similar to "do I look fat in this size 14 outfit"

or whether I'm even clean,.... he still wants me that way
Clean is always better and it does not take much time to use a little soap and rinse off. One less thing to feel uncomfortable about. IYKWIM, smelling good makes it so much more enjoyable for both parties.

Dh doesn't even initiate as much anymore... that's got to be a bad sign.....Guess it's a case of too little too late in my case.
Yes it is a troubling sign. I hope it is not too late for your M.

You don't realise how much influence you still might have. Getting turned down most of the time even if the final answer is yes to sex really hurts for me. I suppose I am not to different form other guys and women. The too little too late comes to mind but I think with the right words and environment your H might be receptive to you taking a more active roll in initating. I think baby steps are called for here. Improvements are better than worrying about what might not work.

Getting turned down most of the time becomes like feeding a dog that bites you and grows at you most of the time. You become adverse to the negative interactions. You know the dog needs to survive so you do what you can and wonder if what you are about to do will hurt you. You know you also don't want to whip the dog into submission. What to do? Do you know of a way to feed the dog between the fence wires so to speak?

There is a term that is close to bait and switch in advertising. It is called "nailed to the floor" it means if a customer works really hard to buy something, sell it to him but there will be hidden undesireable consequences, either to the sales person or the customer.

I think this "nailed to the floor," IE passive agressive, is more common than "bait and switch". How often I wish we could get away from this.

Back to work and I do wish you the best. I know it is tough to be LD or HD and it is something that is difficult for you. Maybe that is why it is difficult for me to work with BB. Maybe I feel her frustrations too much along with mine. It is difficult being the relationship promoter, enforcer, and moderator.

Lou