RE CeMar Q=Does she allow acts of service that involve contact. ie back rubs, foot rubs, massages? A=All the time, but she uses them to go to sleep. CeMar, same here most of the time, but every now and then i get lucky.
Re Mrs NOP Do you guys ever get foot rubs and back massages in return? I get a light back rub for 5 minuets if I am almost dead and ask for them. Generally the answer is no.
Here is usually what happens, I do her back or feet, she does the dog's back. Not much comes back to me. I do it to feel connected but recently, too many times, I just feel more disconnected after doing her feet or back after a little while when I start to feel the no progress cycle over again.
Like CeMar said, back /foot rubs cause W to get sleepy, meanwhile I am thinking about being more emotionally connected and maybe ML all the while I rub away. Sometimes the more I do, the further I am away from where I would like to be.
I am getting better (or worse) at stopping sooner or not even starting so I don't feel so drained if nothing happens that benefits me.
There are lots of pent up feelings that have to be reabsorbed or redirected so they don't sour and spoil some of the good times we do have. Anyone know to do with sour milk/affection. I hear cheese making can be a hobby. I also see it is not easy for BB, so I just keep plugging along.
What I want is the EASIEIST thing on earth, I just want to be wanted.
I wish this was the easiest thing on earth. It seems like all of this should be so easy. But I am finding it is not. My H like you just wants to be wanted and I have the problem of not being able to meet that need the way he wants me to. I feel overwhelmed with it most of the times. It frazzles me to no end. And makes me feel defeated alot of the time. And just frustrates him because he does not understand he feels he is not asking much of me. It is a endless circle of getting no where. I try to be affectionate but he feels like I should not have to try so he still gets upset and so I still feel like I am doing something wrong. We both still end up in resentment land. You would think this sharing a life thing would be a piece of cake. Hell it is not even close to a lick of frosting.
Chrissy, Yup, it is frustrating on both sides. I've realized in trying to deal with it on the HD side that part of the problem is perhaps that the HD also doesn't know exactly what he wants. Sure, it seems obvious to him from the outset (Cemar, for example thinks he knows exactly what will fix his marriage, he is in that if only she would do x stage...Having been there, I know that is not the fix he is looking for, but he won't know it until he gets past it), but as you work closer together you start to realize that it isn't just about sex, it is about fostering a close emotional connection. Until you've worked through the sexual frequency, you think lack of sex is the root of the problem: it isn't. Then when you get the frequency down, you discover that it isn't just the frequency it has something to do with the quality of the encounter as well. At first you think it is just the mechanics, but you soon discover that no, it is something else. It can seem like it is a lack of willingness to the HD, but alas, that isn't the whole enchilada either. This is about where I am in the journey right now. Kind of at a disillusionment stage where it is finally sinking in that she isn't just like me, that she doesn't express her love in quite the same way. What bugs me is I can see how hard she is trying (God I love her for that), but it seems to me it shouldn't be that hard. Well, I think I am seeing that yes, it is that hard because she is trying to please me in a way that is not natural to her. It is like two people who don't have a common language trying to discuss the finer points of rocket science or something. What is sinking in through my thick skull is that my way isn't necessarily the 'right' way, and neither is hers. I am also getting the sense the disconnect has more to do with my personality than it does with her, and it kills me to see the pain I've put her through getting to this point.
So guess what, as an HD I am just as clueless as you as to how to establish that emotional connection (although I think I have figured out that it isn't the sex, rather it is communication). Unfortunately, this lack of a clear path to intimate communion that makes it look to the LD like the whole thing is a moving target, that no matter what they do it isn't good enough. Like you said, that can build resentment on both sides of the fence, and is certainly very frustrating for everyone involved.
I can honestly say that my marriage is a lot stronger than it was a year ago when I started this journey. I am also the first to say that it feels like it still has a way to go, and that I haven't a clue as to what I am doing or where it will wind up.
So try not to feel defeated, but do try to open up communications. I am quite sure it is the only way out of this quagmire. Try to both really listen to him to gain insight into what he is feeling rather than what he is saying, and also try to communicate to him what you are feeling. So yeah, this relationship stuff has gotta be the hardest thing I've ever attempted in my life, and I've got a fairly impressive list of accomplishments if I may say so myself. First step I think is to unconditionally commit yourself to the marriage (and I know some folks here will flame me for that, but as long as you have one foot out the door you can't face your demons and without facing them you can't slay them).
Until you've worked through the sexual frequency, you think lack of sex is the root of the problem: it isn't
I agree with this whole heartedly. Just watching how people on this BB that have been LD and flip and become the HD has made me realize sex is only a focus point. If the issue was sex and a LD became HD you would like it. It would be life in paridise but in reality what appears to happen is that the first HD partner is thrown a curve when there spouse becomes HD and has to focus on other issues in the relationship. Example my H is a slob and when we argue and I am feeling disgruntled I focus on his sloppiness regaurdless of if his dirty socks laying under the table was the cause of my being disgruntled in the first place. Now if my H was to become a neat freak would I be happy nope I just would not have that issue to refer to I would have to look for another issue to focus on maybe the real one aye? I am begining to believe that human nature does not allow us to be satisfied for long. We seem to always be able to find something to not be satisfied with. And pointing our fingers at others and saying if you would do this I would be satisfied is much easier then looking in the mirror and looking for the cause of our own dissatisfaction.
although I think I have figured out that it isn't the sex, rather it is communication
I agree with this to. As a LD it takes the pressure off of the sex issue. But so much time has been focused on the sex issue in my relationship that I am pretty clueless as to what the real issue is at times. It was much easier to fight about sex then not know what it is you need to be fighting about.
So try not to feel defeated, but do try to open up communications.
Right now I feel like I am surrounded by brick walls on this one. I keep trying and trying to talk about things but if it is not what he wants to hear then I might as well be whistling in the wind. Because no one is listening.
The hardest thing for me as the LD is not that I do not understand what he feels and wants it is how to get there that makes me feel so lost. I am not a emotionally needy person (for lack of better wordage). But that is what my H wants me to be. I am not talking sex I am talking emotions. He wants me to long for him, need him, want him, desire him,rely on him relish him and on and on. And it is not that I don't want to do these things to make him happy.I do not know how to feel this way. And it does not matter why these feelings don't arise in me they don't. And I don't know how to make myself feel them. How do you make yourself emotionally needy? I try and I try but it is never good enough I am just so dam frustrated with this. Then I get so dam mad because even though I am trying to be what I am not for him and getting kicked in the face for my efforts I stand to win nothing in the end except peace since my H believes that what his needs are and how they are met should be the same for me. But they are not and he refuses to see that.
but as long as you have one foot out the door you can't face your demons and without facing them you can't slay them).
This statement threw me. I think not only have you read my thread you have read my mind. In a recent post where I realized that I never feel in love with my H I grew to love him. I have dwelled on this and realized I started this relationship with one foot out the door but I do not remember ever posting that thought.
Sadly that realization has me even more trapped. I feel somehow I was deciteful without knowledge and that by being so I have wronged my H greatly.
Funny my H always says he wishes I would have decided that I could not give him what he wanted or needed in the begining so I would not have wasted 15 years of his life. Sadly though I know no matter what the outcome of our R staying or going it still will equate to a waste in his mind because I cannot be what he wants me to be.
Re: GGB The dog is not doing his share, The dogs are doing their jobs, Eating, making messes in the yard, barking when another dog or cat is in the yard, sleeping half the day, barking 2 or 3 times at night when deer come into the yard.
or hit the highway BB's general opinion is the H gets the boot before the pets. She said so many times when relaying stories about guys that don't like the girlfriends/SO/W's pets. Some of this I let go in one and out the other. Gees, women are right! Guys don't listen sometimes, imagine that.
Interesting, sex as a chore? To me there is NOTHING better then great sex. It is NEVER a chore. I can not think of ANYTHING that I would choose instead of great sex. And yet I watch my wife completely fill her life with so many tasks. She says she LOVES to be busy. And yet all of the things she thinks about and does are to me, CHORES! I hate to say it, but I often think that I am living life at a level that she can not even DREAM of.
I also see it is not easy for BB, so I just keep plugging along.
women are right! Guys don't listen sometimes, imagine that.