Lil... Once again, thank you for pointing this out. My H's and my mental desire to work the sex issue out is what lead to our road to recovery, and is really what makes us unique as human beings.
Quote: I think what you're describing-- getting all warm and fuzzy when you think of spooning with your W-- is what this author would call "arousal," viz., actual physical sensations.
What she calls "desire" is what we have been calling "willingness," and she suggests that we not overlook that the two used to be identical or simultaneous (and for some HD people they still are after many years of marriage, lucky dogs!), but they can still go hand in hand.
Exactly!!! It is sometimes much easier to arrive at arousal than desire for me! And I like the distinction b/t arousal and desire, makes it easier to decide which, if any, I possess!
Great observations. I'm looking up the book after this!
If you know that you are a desire-follows-arousal person, then wouldn't it make sense to schedule sex?
What is stopping you from making a schedule--jointly with your H, so that he has input into the frequency of his own sex life--and following that and not relying on your body to tell you it's "time"?
I guess I'm thinking that relying on your body to be in the mood, when you know that it usually isn't (historically) is kinda silly. If you instead reframed that to "I know I get aroused no prob, and then the desire kicks in full force, so from now on I will allow my H to arouse me and not wait for the feeling of desire when preparing myself for sex."
I was thinking that the Just Do It method would be particularly useful for someone in your situation.
Quote: I guess I'm thinking that relying on your body to be in the mood, when you know that it usually isn't (historically) is kinda silly. If you instead reframed that to "I know I get aroused no prob, and then the desire kicks in full force, so from now on I will allow my H to arouse me and not wait for the feeling of desire when preparing myself for sex."
WOW!! Very well said. (rhetorical question) If I gave you my wife's cell phone number, could you please call her and tell her the exact same thing you just told JEN?
She doesn't want to listen when I tell her. We're struggling with the making dates thing right now.
Actually, H and I were talking about just this thing the other day in the car! I sort of gave him the idea to just 'start' things on his own by giving me a back rub in bed after my shower and make it erotic! I also told him that he could 'banish' me to the tub for a soak while he got the kids to bed. That would give me some time to 'groom', relax and get in the mood.
The one thing that is killing me is the fact that I can't make this a change in me, that dispite wanting to change, I'm still LD. If I stop thinking, I stop doing. Really bums me out.
Thanks for the hints! So sorry Mr.HP isn't getting on board. I really feel your pain in another post I read, and I wish he could at least feel the way I do, that I'd like to do what I can to change things for my M.
Give me his cell number and I'll call him. Perhaps another LD person could talk some sense into him!!!
I also wanted to suggest that you be the one to start things, sometimes. It makes a huge difference, even if we clueless HD's don't know that there is no arousal yet.
I don't know what to say about MrHP. He is certainly on board, in the same sense that you are, and yet I just need to take a break. It is exhausting being the "fixer" and having to haul him along. He does want to ML, and he is quite enthusiastic when we do, but I am no longer willing to "stand guard" and make sure that it happens. That is SO un-sexy and unfulfilling, I can't even explain it.
Quote: I see this in my wife, she tries to be wonderful to everyone else, but I am taken for granted. I too, receive less affection then the children, and even the freakin' dog.
CeMar:
I bet you'll have an easier time getting the dog interested in being "buds" with you if you try than you would making that same effort with the W, and you should do so for both you and your dog's sakes. Mine is a Golden Retriever, age 9, who for all of those years is the only one who waits up for me to come home from my 2nd shift job. Loyal to the ends of the earth, always happy to see me. Don't get resentful about your dog's and your W's relationship. You can best her R with the pooch easy if your priorities are less AOS oriented than hers and just go for the love and attention that can be shared between MAN and MAN's best friend. You (and pooch) both owe it to each other to share that bond, KWIM? I'm sure you do, and I just took your dog comment out of context.
As for being way, way down on her list of priorities, hey, isn't that a bitc*? The way I see it, it is not at all rewarding, and as a matter of fact, I'm fighting this too right now, if I do everything according to her plan as to what and when I help her redecorate our bedroom before Labor Day, I can count on her interest and a mild amount of her affection. But not in bed. If I don't, I'm screwed, as in pieces of poochie excrement out in the lawn, not as in being rocked up in the under construction BR.
What is your W LL? Here's a real strange answer to that same question. I took the questionaire back in early July with my wife. I did'nt give here time to "fudge" the results and even so she came out to be a 6 for each of the 5 categories, blowing me away, once again, with her mystique. After 27 years of trying to understand someone who you want to be as close to as your W, mystique = pain in the a$$.
The priorities will continue to be distant from me at least til the BR project is finished and the kids go back to college. Then the empty nest happens again. Do you think the first weekend of empty nest she will want to give the pooch a bath as a distraction and a way to keep us busy?
OK, I'm not trying to stir up trouble, HONESTLY I'm not, but over on I-Don't-Give-a-Chit-AnymorePot's thread, Lillieperl said:
Quote: I can't help but think that cally is missing your point-- it's not about frequency, or him saying he wants you because in the past that is what you have wanted to hear. It's about him REALLY desiring you from deep inside himself... about something that is born in him and comes out of him and is not necessarily in response to something that you are doing or wanting. As some have said here before-- you want him to want you.
Why is it that I frequently keep coming back to the gnawing feeling that the only difference between that statement (and others like it on this bulletin board), and CeMar's rants, is that it's kinder and better-written?
Choc, there is little difference in the point, just a difference (as you noted) in the heat and finesse of the delivery.
This doesn't apply across the board, but many of the folks here are dealing with a level of disrespect, unkindness, rudeness, entitlement, and selfishness from their spouses that should be addressed even before the sexual issues are attempted.
How can you ask for your deepest needs from someone who OVERTLY treats you like sh*t on a regular basis with little or no modicum of respect and who evidently goes forward thinking that it's alright and acceptable to do so?
Many of these relationship seem to have no *foundation* from which to have a discussion, much less to address something as touchy as sexuality.
I don't get the hour or more foot rubs. I don't get the cooking most of the meals and doing the majority of the housework. I don't get the buying of gifts. I don't get the special plans for anniversaries. I don't get the one-way spousal kowtowing. I don't get the spousal conniption-fits that are tolerated.
Until there is some basis for a mutually-respected relationship - there is NO way that you'll ever get the sexual side of your marriage fixed.
Somewhere your (rhetorical you) marriage lost (if it ever had) equitable partners. So many of you are just downright bullied, and not just over sex.
If you can get the f*cked up relationship somewhat balanced, the sexual issue has a good chance of getting fixed.
You guys need to get some of your personal power back.
