Well, thank you for the response. If I don't respond right away, it's because I only use this board at work and I guess I should do something for the princely salary they pay me.
Yes I am sure that makes you mad and I think that is b/c you can't believe people like that deserve that adoration
No I don't mean people like that don't deserve adoration; I mean the domination/submission syndrome doesn't deserve adoration. I have fought with this all my live ("You're supposed to be the macho man; you're supposed to be making the big bucks; you're supposed to drive the pickup truck and fight with other guys in the honky-tonks to prove your manhood; you need to be the football hero" - "This will attract the girls to you"). I don't believe you can isolate things and say, OK, I'll only be submissive a little bit in bed and then everything else won't be like that. This domination/submissive syndrome has a life of its own; so if you use it in what part of your life, I believe you will tend to want to expand it in other areas.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
What I don't enjoy is a doormat yes-man no-opinion-having passive limp noodle.
I don't think my wife thinks of me like that, but I do get hints from time-to-time. Small hints, joking ("I only married you so he could open my jars for me"). Sometimes I think women think of men like the character Ray Romano plays as Ray Barone in "Everybody Loves Ray". No one can give the Doesn't Have a Clue About Women look like Ray Romano. My favorite line from that show is from his wife ("Honey, I'm tired. Can you just call yourself an idiot.")
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
While I think that show is hilarious, I do think that things like that contribute to the problem of weak men that we are seeing so much more these days.
I totally bought into this dynamic when first married. It took me a long time to see how years of this type of speech just wore my H down and made him feel inadequate and clueless. It put me in a position of dominance. Then I got angry because I was suddenly married to a limp noodle! How unfair is that.
It has been a long road, placing us back into a more natural dynamic but it's working. I don't insult him anymore, even in jest, and I don't treat him like a bumbling idjit.
But back to you, TS.
What are some ways you can work on cultivating this trait in yourself...a little more powerful, assertive, take charge type thing...any ideas? It sounds like this is the type of dynamic she really responds to.
I read this post late last night and decided I wanted to say something reguarding your sitch.
I just wanted to say that I agree with what Chrissy said that I have a lot of anger about relationships. I thought I had gotten over the fact that my WS had lied to me about carrying on an affair for 12+
It is understandable that you have a lot of anger requarding the fact you were decieved for 12 years. It is also fair to say that some of your anger is self anger for being blinded to the sitch for so long. It must feel that some how you enabled her be able to decieve you. It is understandable that you would be angered that not only was this a affair but a continuation of a relationship that was ongoing from before your time with your wife. It is understandable that you have a low opinion of the type of personality you percieve the OM to have and that you will react strongely to others with that type of personality. But in truth his personality is no more at fault for what happened in your R then anyone here that has that personality type is. And you probably already know that but it is a great place to displace your anger for now. But to heal from the anger you will have to assign it to the proper owner of it. Your wife and her actions within your relationship and your self and your actions within your R. You will have anger you will have doubt and you will have questions and it will take a long time to establish trust and confidence back into your relationship much more then 7 months but hopefully alot less then 12 years.
I do have a loaded question for you. From what I see this OM existed prior to your wifes first marriage the course of that marriage more then likely you dating phase and then the course of your marriage so far. So your wife has lived a double life (for lack of better words) in two different relationships for a long time. Now her two worlds have collided. Do you truely believe you having this knowledge will ever be able to trust her truely trust her. And if not are you willing to live the rest of your life looking sideways to keep her in sight.
I can understand how some people fall into affairs and how there spouses are willing to forgive and stay within a relationship. But to me and this is my opinion your wife was not having a affair it was a long term relationship. Not a quick sexual romp. Not just a emotional support system that became more then just casual friends. But you cannot be personal with someone for so long and it not become... Urgh personal. How do you feel about that? To me that would be harder to deal with then a affair and much harder to forgive. But that may just be me.
I think what brought up the anger was a number of things - the adoration that BF gets when he puts forth his ideas about male superiority and dominance and female submission; the hero worship that Uncle NY gets when he analyzes and spins his webs
You will come to realize once your initial anger subsides that it is not adoration nor hero worship of the persons per say personal sitch it is respect of there support and insight into others sitch that has gained them others admiration and support. Once you learn to direct your responses neg or positive to the subject instead of the poster you will find people more incline to interact with your post.
Not just a emotional support system that became more then just casual friends. But you cannot be personal with someone for so long and it not become... Urgh personal. How do you feel about that?
My WS and I have agreed that she will not have any contact with the OM or his wife, who were supposedly old friends, unless I am involved in the contact (this is what Shirley Glass recommends in "Not Just Friends"). We have had no contact with them; I have never spoken with them or met them and don't want to. I have to trust my wife that she has had no contact with the OM on her own. When she read the letter that the OM wrote to his wife after his wife discovered the affair, my WS was upset to discover that the OM had regarded her as "free pornography". But she didn't seem that upset; at least didn't show any emotional reaction, to me anyway, just said she was angry with him.
I am not sure what you are saying? Are you advising me to look to get out of the relationship? Or keep my eyes open for any sign of slipping on my WS's part? I believe she is truly sorry; that she does not have any intention of reconnecting with this OM. I believe my best course right now is to work to restore my marriage and whatever trust I can find in it. My WS is at least on the surface willing to try as well. I am of course not as trusting as I was 7 months ago, but am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
I am not sure what you are saying? Are you advising me to look to get out of the relationship? Or keep my eyes open for any sign of slipping on my WS's part?
No I am not advising you to get out of your relationship. What I am suggesting is that you realize the full impact of the fact that your wife was not having a torrid affair but a real long term relationship emotionally and physically. And deal with that now why you are in C. So it does not come back to haunt you later. Ask the questions you need to ask get the information you need to understand the whys and hows. Things you brush under the rug now as not as important as making things better will have no chance of resurfacing when that rug starts shifting if you deal with it now. The things you think you can go without knowing are usually the ones that internernally tear you apart. Your emotional response to BF thread about something you thought you were okay with. Something as simple as a personality type. Is what I am trying to convey the importance of truely dealing with. Not sweeping under the rug.
I believe she is truly sorry
I am going to ask you another loaded question. Why do you believe this?
I am not pushing you to be mad at your wife. Though it may seem as if I am. I have no reason to want you to be mad at your wife. But you have a lot of pent in anger and you need to let it out and face it so you can deal with it. And I am trying to push you to use this board in a constructive mannor to do just that. Some times just writting what you feel is a great tool. Better then any verbal outlet you will ever find.
Ask the questions you need to ask get the information you need to understand the whys and hows.
Most of this we went over right after the affair came out in the open. She volunteered some information and I asked about the rest. A lot of the logistical information (times and places, etc.) were in the letters I got from the OM's wife. Also, the MC asked some other questions I couldn't think of during our sessions (he thought some of the motivation was her depression; he also asked how she arranged her thoughts/feelings when she knew a meeting or phone sex call was coming up). I tried to go over everything I wanted to know by reading through the Spring book "After the Affair", and Glass's "Not Just Friends". I really can't think of any questions I could have about the Affair.
I am going to ask you another loaded question. Why do you believe this?
Two reasons I can think of right off. When we went for our first interview with the MC, she said to him she was sorry for the hurt she had caused me and wanted to make up for it. Also, right after I found out about the affair, she cried and said she was sorry. That could be an act or insincere, but I don't think so. She has also shown a lot of motivation on working on restoring our marriage and has put work into our sessions with the MC.
"The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places." - Ernest Hemingway, A Farewell to Arms, 1929.
So she has told you that she is sorry for the hurt she caused you. But has she ever said she was sorry for the affair? Two totally different things there. Believe me I know.
Also had OM wife not found out after 12 years would your wife had of ended this relationship? Guilt of what she was doing nor guilt of possibly hurting you did not stop it in 12 years. What is the C take on that? You may not think it is important right now because it is over and how and why may not seem as important as it is. But what if's can follow you your whole life if you do not have answers that you can truely believe. And they breed discontent.
