Thanks for that long narrative, Chrissy. I can't help but think that my story of the bag of rocks from the movie The Mission that I recounted in Z-Bube's thread applies to you. Cut the bag-- you've carried it long enough. Let the rocks fall.
What you have described is the life of a Human Being, a flawed, loving, seeking, struggling PERSON. These are human actions... you are not uniquely tainted or cursed. BUT if you are an enneagram 4, as I believe you are, it is hard to believe that you are not stained in some way that sets you apart. The 4 feels cut off from the Ground of Being, but that is an illusion, since NO ONE can truly be cut off. Your experiences may not be commonplace, but you are not immersed in evil... I think you should change the interpretation of "B.E.B" to "Being Every Body," which is what you have described... a life that could belong to any human. Read the great myths of humanity-- the Greek myths, the Bible, Indian, Norse, the myths of other lands and cultures. What you have lived is what those people lived, too. You are not cut off; you are One of Us.
Where does your current H fit into this narrative?
Well that post was one box and one devil. And for as long as it was it was quite short lol.
Lil No I do not feel any oneness from this experience. I truely believe though they all take different froms we all Dance with our own devils. And though I state that I feel my soul had been cast into hell. I also truely believe my life has been kissed by more then one angel. I have very profound but not Catholic scripted beliefs in God. I know there are many times he could have washed his hands of me and choose not to. I know that everywhere life leads us there is a meaning and a reason. We just do not always see it or understand it.
I have stumbled more times in life then not. I am not alone in that I know. The falls are not what I confused about. Though they have lead me to where I am. I seem to be lost right now as to the hows. How to feel things as others do. I see all this emotional stuff come out on this board of needing and wanting and desire though I understand these feelings I do not know how to embrace them. It is like I have ran away from them for so long. I made myself to independent. I am reaching back and I am looking for something to grasp on to something I can pull from the past to allow me to feel these things in the future. But I can not find it. I have realized that I have a great emotional defiect in myself. I have realized I am to self reliant. I reley on only myself and God in to get through life. I have always looked at this as a strength I am now finding that strength to be a stumbling block. I let logic rule me now I figure out what is logical and follow that path. But there are parts of your life you need to let be ruled by emotion. All you people here are opening my eyes to that.
Where does my H fall into all of this I love my H in a very gentle calm way. Though our relationship is not a great relationship in many ways it has been a part of my life for 15 years now. We have 3 children who we both love that is what we have in common. And that is all we have in common. We are nothing alike. We have let bad and badder over run our relationship most of the time. I have always taken blame for my share. But I am starting to see my share encumbered more then I saw. My lack of ability to feel and share all of these emotions as come to light. Honey has asked me repeatedly what my needs are from my H. I only want my H as part of my life I do not need him. So I cannot answer this question. But I am trying to find the answer not for her for me.
I am not the crippled bird I know I sound like as a whole. I am a strong person who is faultering who no longer knows what to believe in. My past beliefs were ill founded. Our belief system is what makes us who we are along with our experiences in life. So I am struggling to establish new beliefs. And struggling to not hurt my H and my M anymore then I have. He does not deserve it. I want to give him all the emotional things you people speak about that I question you all about endlessly as to why you feel that way what do you mean by this. I am looking for a way to recognize these feelings within myself and embrace them and act upon them. I detached somewhere along the line not from my H it was long before him I believe. I detached from myself. And like a person who has been in a coma I am having to relearn how to walk ie how to attach. I am having trouble locating the emotions I need to do this. And I am looking to you sweet honest people and deriving from it some form of guidance. My demon I spoke of today is a distant long ago demon. It has impact on my life today because it was so much of my life for so long. It is not the person that is my demon. It is not the person that sent me down my long downward spiral path it was my feelings that did. And my own non ability to deal with them. I never emotional became mature in a relationship I realize that now. I did not deal with rejection and emotions and how they made me feel like all you people try to. I shut if off. As Lou says about BB I hit the easy button. And even when I did step back and unload the baggage a few years ago. The switch did not flip back on. I did not become emotional charged I have still been emotional disconnected and my H is the one I want to become emotionally connected to.
And Lil while I would love to just dump my rocks. Hell I can even think of a few I would love to sling them at. That in itself is why I cannot. Redemption is not mine to give me. It is Gods and when he feels I have repented for my sins I will not have to drop my rocks for he will remove them.
I mostly posted because if I just wrote something like you did, I would drained for a while and want someone to at least say Hi!
You have been through a lot, some very painful times. I read your post about how "one" you were with bf#2 and others at times. Then for little reason things seemed to turn bad. Maybe not origionally to be mean to them, but for some reason.
Your ups and downs seem to play out with more emotions than many people would feel or do. I am not trying to be critical here either. Just suggesting that events and people in your life seem to go one way or the other, more than they do for most people.
It sounds like withdrawing from the ups and downs is some built in method of protection you have. Not feeling connected is not a goal most people want. So I mostly understand why you are searching for that connected feeling.
When I read that bf#2 kissed you and a horse was involved, I thought right away here goes, she just made one of those "remember for a life time connections" with this guy." If things don't work out, she will replay this event in her mind for a long time and be influenced by it greatly. I heard other women get some permenant picture burned in their mind when a horse was involved.
I think BB has some of those feelings sometimes. We even had a horse. I thought BB would work through some of her horse feelings. But back to you.
Chrissy, I am no expert here to give advice. But I am honest about what I think and write. My opinions may be off too, but like bf#1 I will not try to snow you. Kid around a little for fun, yes but I will make that (kidding around) plain as I can. So take my post as good intentioned but not the whole picture.
Does your H know how all of these guys effected you?
Hi Chrissy... Wow...you have had a tumultuous life, but here on the board, we are all in turmoil of some sort, and can relate to your emotional distress. The disconnection that you talk about is self-protective and sometimes I wish I had more of that; instead I tend to get overwhelmed with anxiety/depression. I am happy to share in your journey of reconnection.
One thing I wanted to comment on was your feeling of loss of innocence...I think a lot of us here would like to climb back to an easier time, a time when we felt loved, secure, safe, happy, joyous. New love offers the promise of all those things...and then life screws it all up. Maybe we need to embrace the messiness of life----the hurts, anger, betrayal, etc. It is all so human.
You awoke a memory of mine...my HS boyfriend and I were very innocent; we were together for 2 yrs, did the prom thing and all---sexually, we were saving the ML for some future, special time. Well, we went off to college to different schools, and in the first week I was swept off my feet (by a boy at the college who seemed so mature....hahaha, but that's another story). Anyway, what did I do? I came home that Thanksgiving to my HS boyfriend ( who lived in the same town), broke up with him, not before I showed him pictures of me and the new guy and telling him how happy I was, really rubbing it in his face.
Thanks a lot, Chrissy, for helping me remember that again,lol. Just letting you know that we all have our demons---things done to us and things we have done to others in this imperfect life. And that little story is just step one of the mess.
So, hopefully, as we share our journeys we will eventually get to a place of health and happiness...well,that's the hope, anyway! Just wanted to let you know I am listening and following along.
Thanks to tell you the truth that post took me over 9 hours to write. I had to go back and let myself feel it and remember it as it was. And then take myself back from that place to write it. Sometimes when I remember things it comes with a odd detachment Even though I know it was my life I feel like I am thinking back on a memory of a event I witnessed instead of lived.
Boyfriend one and boyfriend 2 played a large part through out my growing up years so it is normal that they are etched in my mind. Boyfriend one was the best friend I could have ever asked for growing up. The memorys of that friendship are some of the best I have of my youth. Boyfriend three well the guilt for how we broke up is what lingers with me from that relationship.
The horse yes does signify "The knight in shining armour" that we seek when we are in a bad place for alot of people. I may fall into this not sure. What I rememeber most or should I say what stands out the most for me was boyfriend 2 eyes and the honesty that I saw in them. I have never seen that honesty in any others eyes. And the memory of that honesty is what haunts me.
It sounds like withdrawing from the ups and downs is some built in method of protection you have. Not feeling connected is not a goal most people want.
I think this is right. I think it was a protective thing that I was not even aware of. I strove to distance myself of memories of the past. And I achieved this to a large degree as I stated before when I look back and try to remember it takes on more of a third party viewing to me now. What I don't think I realized at the time that by blocking my memories I also blocked off some of my emotions. Oddly this is something that my last C hinted at. When speaking about things she told me she saw a pattern of me not dealing with them but shuting down. She also told me a person could only shut down so much before it came boiling out in other ways. She was talking about my dreams and how vivid they were. I have had nightmares for years to the point I take medication to make me sleep. I thought she was crazy at the time. I feel so much for my children. When they have gotten hurt have sat and cried. I worry about them all the time.I miss them when they are gone.I can cry for anothers lose and pain without knowing them. Gosh there are even movies that can make me cry. Her take was my maternal instincts over ride my own need for self preservation. She also said that it was it was easier to relate to the pain and joys of others then it was to cry for owns self. She based all of her ideas of how I relate on a series of questions she asked me throught our sessions. Like how would you feel if this happened or that. She said I answered from my logical side instead of my emotional side with anything that did not relate to my children mother or sisters. I thought she was crazy again I state this but now. That I am seeing all these emotions that I can understand but not relate to from all of you people I see some truth to what she was saying. She only said you are emotionally shut down. I thought hmmm I feel so much yur nuts. She did not point to the wheres and whats I was emotionally shut down to. All you wonderful people are bringing that to light. She also said that I take on guilt? That guilt seems to be a emotion that I feel to readily. She said something about if I responded in a way that I did not feel is how I should respond I was easy to feel guilty for not being able to respond the way I felt I should? Or something in that line.
My H is very jealous of boyfriend 2. He understands to some degree that boyfriend 1 and myself were really more just really good friends. But my H is jealous of anything from my past so it has not been discussed in great length. And when it has came up in the past it has turned very heated and ugly. My life prior to him is taboo as I stated before and wrong for me to even think about. Everything about me is suppose to be about him. I am open to my H to listen to him to talk about his past and he does except for ex girlfriends he denies he ever felt anything for anyone except me and feels I should never have felt anything for anyone except him and since I have I have cheated on him. So even though I was married to H 1 long before I meet him that was a sin against him and our R. My R with my H is loving in the now but it is not based on honesty and understanding and sharing. I have had to be only half of who I am the entire time I have been with him. And half of who you are is only half a truth.
Thank you for your thoughts. I will be away for a few days going to Ohio to see my mom and dad hmmm. I have been a nervous wreck for days about this not got much done so today I am gonna kick into over drive and try to do it all. Guess the rest of that floor will have to wait until next weekend lol
instead I tend to get overwhelmed with anxiety/depression.
So this is where the I don't understand comes in. I suffer depression have for years. When I went through my falling apart stage I was diagnosed as being severly depressed. I have been went through suicidal stages twice in my life diagnoses sever depression. I was on anti depressants for two years. Doc finally said to me a pill was not going to be able to make it better. Figuring out what makes me so depressed and making changes would make it better. Which I have been trying to do for well over a year now.
Some of the dreams I use to have would cause me anxeity attacks. I would wake up in a full fledged panic. I could not remember what I had been dreaming most of the time. But other times I would remember vividly. Most of those would be about my children. One I had often was of one of my children falling from a cliff like a park overview. And me jumping after them and then a voice telling me I could not save them how could I choose to die with them and leave my other children. And then I would be like suspened in air trying to decide what I should do. Try to get back to my other children or try to catch the one falling. I would wake up frantic.
Until recently I was of the mind if I could be depressed if I could feel all these things I could not be emotionally detached. I just did not feel jealousy because I am not a jealous person by nature. I did not feel needy of my H because I was not a needy person. I miss my family but did not become overwhelmed with missing them because I have lived away from them all my life. I was used to it and excepted it. Now I see maybe I am not jealous because a part of me is detached the part that would make me jealous. I am not needy of my H because I do not allow myself to be needy of him. And I do not overwhelmingly miss my family because I do not want to feel it.
I am confused with all of this right now. This new concept to me that I have shut myself down emotionally. I am starting to except that this may be true. But I have had to look for signs that it maybe true to get me to this point. My recant of how I dealt with D18 and her move by detaching and then again of my painting her room to remove the herness of it were big indicators to me that this maybe true.
One thing I wanted to comment on was your feeling of loss of innocence...I think a lot of us here would like to climb back to an easier time, a time when we felt loved, secure, safe, happy, joyous. New love offers the promise of all those things...and then life screws it all up. Maybe we need to embrace the messiness of life----the hurts, anger, betrayal, etc. It is all so human.
If I could only have one thing back of my innocense it would be the honesty and the depth and intensity that that honesty brought. I would gladly rewalk my life or anothers who suffered more 100 times if I could do so without losing the honesty in life I had when I was innocent.
But something good does come of every bad. Through recognizing my emotional immaturity. By being able to say hey I was to young to understand all of the emotions I felt at that age and accepting that as truth to why I reacted as I did. And by recognizing the fact I had no one to guide me and say hey this is normal for a 19 year old but not a 14 year old to feel. If someone would have been there to guide me through this from the begining and have taught me how to handle my feelings I may have seen through my delusion of true love, soul mates and so forth alot sooner then I did. Because I can recognize this I have put a great effort into being there for my children on this aspect. I have tried to guide them not into the belief that these things do not exist. There beliefs will be there own. But I have tried to make them understand that you never tell a person you love them off handedly as a way to get something from them. I have tried to make them understand that to do so may have long term effects for both of them.I have tried to make them understand that sex is not something you just do lightly at there age. And more then anything I have tried to make them understand that no matter what they do or how they feel they can always come to me I will always love them and try to help them through it. This ensues drinking drugs sex peer pressure all of it they can talk to me. I may get upset I may not agree with what they are doing I may gound them for there benifit but nothing they ever do will ever make me stop loving them. My love is unconditional and uncondeming. I never had this for the largest part of my life with the exception of my older sister. But the things I went through I went through long before she did. So she had no knowledge to guide me through with. I really do not have it now except from my sister. S10 is the closet to a person who gives me unconditional love in my everyday life.
Just letting you know that we all have our demons---things done to us and things we have done to others in this imperfect life.
Thank you for this. Though I know I do not own oneness in this. It still sometimes makes me feel alone. I have felt alone on the inside all of my life and sometimes that lonliness feels like a blanket of warmth that suffercates me. It is odd how we can be in a life full of people and still feel alone.
That lonliness that feeling I have always had. That is where the hold on me is from with boyfriend 2. I have always felt alone in this world except when I was in that relationship. That was the only time I did not feel totally desolated in life. My demon is my inner lonliness and the link to my exboyfriend is he is the only person who has ever taken me away from that feeling. He is not at the root of that inner lonliness he was my relief from it for a short time. So now the quest has turned tide. How does one stop feeling as if they are walking alone through life. How does one stop feeling alone in a life full of people. I have always been surrounded by people but feel invisable to them. How do you change this?
Re Chrissy that post took me over 9 hours to write There was a lot in it content AND emotions. I am not surprised about the time.
I have never seen that honesty in any others eyes. I am remembering what Lil said, about what we think we see in others is really how we are feeling at the time. So maybe the honesty that you saw in bf#2 eye's was really you honesty. What you saw in his was probally honesty, sincerity, and from a real place in his mind, I an not trying to discount that, but it (what you saw) might just have been the catalysist to opening up your heart. I suspect those "opening up your heart" feelings are still there and you are having trouble finding them.
Like I said, I am no xepert on inner feelings. So dont try to deposit what I say in the bank. They might be written on some pre Civil War paper.
I realized at the time that by blocking my memories I also blocked off some of my emotions I hold mine in too and usually try to do the right thing most of the time.
he denies he ever felt anything for anyone except me and feels I should never have felt anything for anyone except him and since I have(,) I have cheated on him. So even though I was married to H 1 long before I meet him that was a sin against him and our R. Women/gals like stories about alnost men/guys on horses, maybe guys have a similar dream about being a gals first "true love." It makes thr M go smoother. Not reality I know.
I know it makes me feel bad sometimes to think I am only 75% as much fun or fill in the blank, as a previous lover. Mostly because I am in this M in the here and now. I am doing the daily stuff that makes a M.
Sure, On an intelectual level I can understand BB prior bf did some things better than I do but who wants to compete with a ghoast. Not me, and that would be my reason for being uncomfortable if BB brought up some hot steamy activities she had prior to meeting me.
Guys feel they have to measure up and that if you don't surpass some old bf in 95% of the ways, those 5% where you come up short take up too much of your time.
I am not saying your H should get bent out of shape and start a fight. That seems wrong.
What I think comes into play is guys worry if their W had someone else that was really close to, the guy might think he might not have her/your 100% loyality in an emotional way. That can be causing resentments, anger, fear, or what ever else there is in the feelings area.
I kind of subscribe to evolutionary biology and the "fight or flight" theory that says fighting is a natural response to a potential threat (old bf). This might play into your H feelings when old competition is discussed, even if the old bf in not in a position to compete for your love or time.
There are things I think about concerning an old gf but I would never tell BB about it. BB invents things that she might be envious of, but seeing how it might hurt her/BB I keep quiet. I don't want to open a can of worms and find maggots instead.
My R with my H is loving in the now but it is not based on honesty and understanding and sharing. I have had to be only half of who I am the entire time I have been with him. Anyway, I don't know how this helps you with wanting to get real with your H. Are you honest with him with things that took place after you met? That is what should count.
My thoughts would be to put a generic face on all your past feelings about bfs, parental figure males and what you did, liked, did not like, and say "I once had the thoughts of ______________ and I always wanted to ______________ to your H.
If you want to open up and talk about all of the things you did or felt with past relationships with males or females, The only place I see where that is safe to do would be in a group counceling setting with at least 5 couples and a good relationship and family counselor.
There your H will see the variety fo feelings and experiences people have. What you did and felt might not be viewed as so far from the norm. Group made me see the "Leave it to Beaver" / "Partridge Family" and similar experiences are not the norm for many people.
BB and I attended a group counseling session a couple of times and this type of C sessions are more real to me. We attendsed one communications group that was OK mostly because everyone stuck to the book. It might have been better if more people got real, but the purpose of the group was to learn what was in the book.
In the real group counseling sessions, others in the group would confront BS much better than an individual C usually did. The peopls seemed more real/honest too. The collective feelings and actions of a good group are really powerful, if you get into the right group.
Just my feelings on how to share your whole self and keep things under controll. It might or might not be for you.
If you want to open up and talk about all of the things you did or felt with past relationships with males or females, The only place I see where that is safe to do would be in a group counceling setting with at least 5 couples and a good relationship and family counselor. ___________________________________________________________
Lou I would have to do this for everything I would like to be able to open up to. It is not just old boyfriends or males or sex it is everything. I would love to share experiences of things I saw and did while I lived in California, and England or anywhere I have traveled. I would like to talk about my experiences of when I was in the army. All are taboo. Any thing does not revolve around him is not allowed. I do not think people pick up on that fact. This is not male/ female this is not sexually based. He gets jealous of everything and any thing that pertains to a time before he was in my life. And even since if it does not involve him.
