The last few days have held some ups and downs. Some goods some not so goods.
But I do feel I made a few steps for myself if no one else.
First The other day my H approached me cell phone in hand. He stated that he had saved a message he wanted me to listen to. He was very harsh in wordage and mannor. I immediatly filled with fear. Oh my god what great wrong doing have I committed in his delusional world. Was I sleeping beside him yet someone called and left a message they had seen me streaking through the mall at that exact same time so I am now going to pay for another sin I did not commit was all my head was screaming. The message was from the school my darling S12 had been misbehaving on the bus. Though relief flooded me the fear lingered. I later went to my H and said hay we need to talk. I told my H of my reaction what had ran though my head and the fear it brought up in me. He did not understand at first but I made him understand it was the manner he approached me in that made the fear come to life. It was the same mannor he has approached me in the the past with one of his wild accussations of my supposed wrong doings. Hence fear became wild. I think he understood this. He then laughed and said he was over that not doing it any more and gave me a hug. Okay now I have fear and the feeling of my fear being dismissed as silly.
Later that day I asked my H to write down what he thought about our R and myself. I was disappointed in what he wrote. But that is in a minute. We then talked about a few things he wrote H then asked me if I felt safer and less in fear of him. I had to be truthful no I do not. I explained though I know he is trying I know he has been calmer of recent past It did not erase this fear. I had not become afraid of him overnight and I would not become not afraid of him overnight. And I may always remain in fear of him to some degree. I again pointed to the phone call and my reaction and told him though he says he is over this behavior he is done with it I cannot just except it and say I believe it. Basically I am doing nothing to rock the boat I have done nothing to lead his mind to wonder into its delusions. Not that I have to do something to make his mind go there but I have been sidestepping every issue that I feel that can take his mind there. Even this BB I know my H and how he thinks if I gave the appearance that I was trying to hide what was being written here. My H would take on the attitude that one if not all people I respond to or talk to are my potential boyfriends/girlfriends. I would be doing wrong of some sort and would find my computer destroyed. So I openly let him read some of my responses to others and such to be allowed to keep the help I am deriving from this BB. The downside to that is be knowing I have no privacy even here I may not be able to speak freely about things that may hinder my healing for fear of repercussion from him. So I loose something to my sidestepping but right now the gain is still worth the lose. Any how my H did recognize that nothing has happened to induce his wild imagination to go running away with him and that only time and it may be a long time will take away my fear.And his approach on subjects may induce my fear.
Good points to this. My H recognized my fear acknowledge his part of my fear. And I myself over rode my fear to speak to him about it. I feel this is a good step.
Another sitch was the over kill issue I posted earlier. A good and a bad came from that. The good.Though I had fear of repurcussion I felt the issue was important. And needed to be addressed. I looked for a better handling of this then the past. One that would bring us to a place of understanding and compromise. The bad thing. Though I tried a new approach it did not work. My H still felt dejected and took us back to square one.
Now a larger issue what my H wrote.
His marriage was not that great but was getting better. And that with time it will be a great marriage. And now that he sees that his not trusting me and his controlling nature where the demons that where keeping me unhappy. It is still going to be a little rocky but as long as he knows that I love him he would be able to beat these faults of his. He thinks I am smart and beautiful and a loving mother. That I make level decisions and that I am upfront with himwith what is on my mind. That he feels I am a great lover and friend now that we are working on our differences. I make him feel safe and secure. And he feels alone when I go away for a day or two. And most of all he likes the way it makes him feel when I get a little sassy and flirty towards him with little things like pulling up my shorts and showing him my ass. Stuff like that makes him feel I am attracted to him and it makes him feel good.What he finds as my faults is that I am bossy at times. Have a habit of wanting everything done yesterday, Not wanting to go fishing or a picnic at the park stuff we use to do.
Sounds great huh like we are really moving along to him.
What I saw first off was almost validation to my thought that my H is lurking her reading what I write no just what I show him off and on. He describes things with my words. And touches on recent things I have posted. But the big one was the word demons. My H does not think in demons and basement dwellers and I do not speak to him in these terms. I think them in my head I post them here. But in conversation with my H I found they confuse him so speak in terms he understands. I also see realization that he still is making me revolve around him 'I see that not trusting you and my controlling nature is the demons that keep you unhappy' He takes ownership of my demons by he is the cause of them. I listed my demons I know what they are I did not list him. My demons may hinder my R with my H my H may take on some of the same behaviors as my demons and thus remind me of them but he is not one of them and he does not own responsiblity of my happiness. I have very clearly stated I do belive that I am unhappy with myself. Some of this unhappiness is due to my H but only in second hand nature I am unhappy with what I have allowed more the death of myself and I will never be happy with him until I am happy with me. I am the owner of that not him. I also felt sad for the importance he puts on me for him still.I stated that this sucks the life out of me to be he his world before. That I wish he would do the GAL and become more self sufficent. Obviously he has missed that or does not view it as important. I view this as very important. In a whole what I read is this. Since I am working to let go of my resentments. To fill his needs and am freely and openly having sex. We are getting happier. Not him we because I revolve around him. What I am feeling is that though things are calmer because of the above that we have still moved no where closier to our goal of a better R. I feel he is being encourage because he is being more fufilled our sex life was his important want or need. And that my important want to be allowed to feel whole and be myself and become happy with myself and for him to become more independent are not important (not even mentioned)to him. But I feel without it the road is going to be more then a little rocky it is going to be unsurpassable.
Had he have said that he felt it important or he even wanted for his wife to heal what makes her so unhappy with herself and makes her so discontent in our R. I would have felt we had made some progress. Just to acknowledge it is about me not him. Had he acknowledged that he needed to become more independent hence becoming more interesting as a person so I would have a desire to go fishing or on a picnic. I would have felt we were making progress.
I guess we are at a stalemate since I am unabashly having sex and filling his needs his glass is half full. And since he is still taking ownership of me and giving me ownership of himself my glass is half empty. We both percieve are sitch in the different places. I sometimes wonder if we are both in the same M.
Chrissy, Why are you worried about what his perception of the R is? Aren't you guilty of doing the same thing he does (wanting to possess you) if you want him to think a certain way or be concerned with the same things you are, in the relationship?
I guess what I'm saying is that your situation has had a dramatic turnaround in the last couple weeks. I mean, it's really stunning! But you are running the risk of sabotaging it (and I know self-sabotage, unfortunately) by focusing on the fact that his answer was not what you expected.
Here is something else for ya:
My H used to be jealous and possessive, though not to the extent that yours is. He finally chilled, thank God.
He also makes me the center of his world and his happiness, even though he is not possessive any more. You're right, it IS stifling at times to know that everything in his day hinges on me and my moods and feelings. The more I read on this bb, the more I think this is a husband thing and not a possessive thing. Lots of husbands here are wife-pleasers to the extent that their happiness depends on hers. I'm not sayin it's healthy, I'm saying it's common.
So perhaps this is being chalked up to his controlling nature, when really it's just a normal everyday husband-wife thing.
And I don't mean at ALL that it shouldn't change, it should, but that it might seem a little more do-able if you reframe it to think, Hey lots of husbands hinge everything on their wives and we will just have to work through this.
Can you separate these two issues? The controlling nature and his being fused with you?
Just a suggestion. I don't know if it will help or not.
Congrats on all your progress. It all looks good from afar. Keep on with that resurrection; it's exciting to watch.
___________________________________________________________ Why are you worried about what his perception of the R is? Aren't you guilty of doing the same thing he does (wanting to possess you) if you want him to think a certain way or be concerned with the same things you are, in the relationship ___________________________________________________________
I feel to stay on track it important to know how he percieves the relationship. In the past he thought we had a good R a great marriage. I felt just the oppisite. I was contemplating ending my life I was so miserable within my self. It was not until I realized that we were in different places and we percieved our M in different lights that that it became a need to fix or possible to fix situation. Running in the dark is not the best way to run a race. Knowing where the other horses are is a important factor that way you are not running in oppisite directions.
And yes I am guilty of the same want to posses me the difference I am entitled after all it is me. I am not him and he is not me. One and one will always equal two it never equals one unless you add subtraction to the equation. My personal self has been the subtracted one to this point by his ownership. But that is the resurrection of Chrissy dynamic.One and one will again equal two is my goal. If not it will be one and one equals two less one equals one and I will be the less one as in done. My self survival is my ultimate goal.
And yes I am guilty of wanting him to find what I feel would make our R important or to at least acknowledge that I feel it is important. But I am not asking for it to become his most important issue. Everyone on this board is saying how they wish there needs and wants were recognized as important to there S. And needed to make that rocky road surpassable.I am no different. If my H does not enable himself to see my needs as important to me (not so much him). Yet I have enabled myself to see his needs that are important to him (not so much me). Then I feel we are at a stalemate of exceptable compromise that will satisfy both of us. I will be filling his love tank while mine is still running on empty. Where is that benifical to me except to take the dangerous dynamic out of the situation. He is in happy camper land I am still in living hell. Not my objective to all my hard work. And takes me to the why would I contine to try aspect of it all.
Okay gotta go just had big crash bang everything flying out of closet eposide and I am the only one here so either have a upset ghost or a hmmm not sure what else I could have going on but gotta go.
I totally agree with what you are saying--your needs are every bit as important as his.
I guess I was confused on what you said to him. If you said, What do you think of our relationship and how I am trying to meet your needs? then I think his answer was ok. That is, he was answering that question.
If you asked about your own needs, then yes he should have done a better job of addressing that.
Have you said to him what you need from the R and how has he responded to this request?
Isn't it funny how we all seem to think, I want xyz need met and met yesterday and oh by the way, you want WHAT?!?!? LOL When I first realized what my H's need was, I felt like Oh crap I cannot do that. But at the same time, I felt "he better meet my needs". What a turd, huh. I still am guilty of that, simply because it is not in his nature to tell me straight out what he needs from me, therefore I have a tendency to forget since I'm the only one reminding me.
It is hard work meeting your spouse's needs cause in some kinda sick joke, God seems to have made it so that opposites attract and it's the one thing that you just don't wanna do.
Quote: It is hard work meeting your spouse's needs cause in some kinda sick joke, God seems to have made it so that opposites attract and it's the one thing that you just don't wanna do.
You know, the MC says that one reason we choose the partners we do is because we need to work something through that we didn't get an opportunity to do in our FOO. I think there's a lot of truth to this.
RE: Chrissy Today is day three since the shower eposide and since He has made several references to me taking another shower.
Chrissy, if you were my W, I would have thought I struck gold with the shower event and would want to do what it took to do it again. I know this was a gift you gave your H and imagime you only have so many of these special events you can give.
Before I said your gift was something special and kind of "patted you on the back" for for doing it. Now I am going to say the other part that you might not agree with. What about just having comfort sex (shorter tender) with your H for a follow up?
The guy probally feels like he was on cloud 9 with the bathroom and other places event and may be wishing this high point would continue. comfort sex might get him back to reality. I can see where you feel his love tank should be filling up and agree with you that your love tank is being deminished.
My suggestion is to help your H off the cloud 9 high from the other day by having some plain sex and tell him the bathroom and other locations sex was a gift you can't summon up but once in a blue moon. Then continue to explain your needs so you feel like you count in the relationship and how your individual needs as a person matter, not just as a wife, count.
Chrissy, I also wanted to say I read your posts about wanting to feel valued as an individual and the (shortened version) 1+1-1=1 feelings you have. I see your point and am seeing where I might be doing some of that in my R.
Do you have anythings you could say (mini-assignment) to your H that you would be somewhat comfortable with telling him what might fill one of your emotional needs not related to the marriage or your marrital love tank?
And yes I am guilty of wanting him to find what I feel would make our R important or to at least acknowledge that I feel it is important. I think HP is right, H's will do things to avoid stress in a M but often H's do not do what you need to feel better about yourself.
Think concrete and doable. Better yet make a list of 6 unrelated things you want and would see as loving or giving gestures from your H. Let him pick one thing.
Okay time to start dusting off those boxes and see what we find.
1. How I feel about my biological father and his abandonment of myself my mother and my olders sister
Hmm my real dad. He really abandoned my mother and my older sister more from my POV. My mother was pregnant for me at the time he left. So there was never any when is my daddy comming home emotions for me to sift through or deal with. He was never there so I never felt a lose with his absense. I have a picture of myself and him and sister at the zoo when I was about maybe close to two. But this is the only time I know of that I saw him. Not saying it is the only time just the only record so to speak of it. I have no memories of him being in my life when I was younger.
My father was a alcoholic a gambler and a womanizer from what I was told when I was younger. He ran/owned a restraunt that was really owned by the mafia he stole/owed them money for gambling and decided sticking around to be a family man was not for him. So ran hid and changed his name. What little memories I have not that someone has given me of him was him calling our house on occassion upsetting my mom making her cry or them just talking then when the conversation was about over her asking him are you not even going to ask about your children. From what I understand his and my mothers marriage was not a bad marriage. My mother really never said alot about my dad when we were younger. What little bits and pieces I knew about were from others in his and our family. My mother remained married to this man for years after he left. Being a devote Catholic she went to the church for her divorce which takes years. But as I have gotten older and my mom has spoken more about my father I realize now that there may have been more reasons then that for her staying married. She remained hopefull. She had such unconditional love for this man even now she loves him in some deep place within. He was the love of her life then and now 40 some years later.
Anyhow I did have a uncle and aunt (my fathers brother) who helped my mother with me when I was young wanted to adopt me and so forth. I was born in poor health rh factor moms blood attached me while pregnant was almost dead at birth nuns named me great story. My Uncle felt raising a sick child and being a single mom would be to much for my mother and wanted to step in and pick up my dads responsibility's. Fate had it my Uncle died not long after I was born died in a tornato. To this day I still love this man though I do not remember him.
Any how back to my dad. I do not look like my father my older sister does. But growing up people remarked how much I acted like this man. I think this was a bad thing in my mind since what little I knew was this person found a bottle more important then me and my mom and sister. I was young and did not realize it could have been good traits he had had that I resembled. I felt I was doomed to be just like him.I grew up thinking a bottle was more important then his family to him and I was going to be like that. Outside of this fear of being like him when I was younger. I developed a sense of resentment for him not from wanting a father. But from watching my mom struggle and what not having a father was taking from us kids as in having a mother. My mom was a great mother to us. But she worked all the time. She was a waitress we lived in a restraunt enviroment. She went to work early in the morning came home for awhile to be with us kids then would go back to work. She worked doubles most of the time just to make ends meet. I remember when I was 4 and my sister was 6 my sister was responsible to walk me 4 blocks to my daycare center and then had to walk 3 blocks in another direction to her school. We walked through the main streets of a huge town to get to my daycare then she walked unattended through a residental area to the school. I do not resent my mother for this I resent my father even had he not been there he could have helped my mom financially so she would not have had to have been to work at 5am or could have afforded to pay someone to stay with us to 6am when the daycare opened.
So I have so far a fear of akinship of behavior and resentment towards my father. By the time I was about 11 I would say but no other real emotional anything.
My mom remarried about this time and through my step father I oddly discovered over the years that I respected a father who left more then one who stayed and tormented everyone in there path. And what my father took from my mom and what she endured by his leaving was less then what my step father took and made my mom endure by his staying.
Jump ahead I am now just 19 (may have still been 18). I discover my real father and mother have been in contact and that he is sending her money back child support in my eyes money to help me in his. I wanted to go to college my parents financal state was a mess. I have no clue how much he sent her when it started did not care did not matter. I don't know if she used me as a pretense to get money she needed from him do not know do not care he owed her 18 years of child support whatever works right. My father decided he would help me with college on a condition. I came to California and stayed with him. I had never even spoken to this man but it looked win win to me. My life dream was to move to California my friends and myself had all made a pact of road trip to freedom of California after high school. And I wanted to be a social worker at the time so California law allowed students to go to school before they were 21 for this but not become one until 21. The state I lived in you had to be 21 to go to school for it. Two of my life goals being meet to met the man that had abandoned us. I went to California.
It was ackward the day I stepped off the plane not emotional ackward. I stayed on the plane to help a lady who was traveling with to small children carry her stuff off. I walked off baby in tow looking for a peson I had never seen he stood watching for a person he had never seen not expecting a baby in hand. I walked right past him. After giving up baby I looked around the only way I did figure out who he was was true in word my older sis was his spitting image in a female younger version. He embraced me which was very ackward for me. I do not like being touched all that much and not by strangers at all.
I spent weeks in the ackwardness. Getting use to a new enviorment and this person. He was a cook in a bar at night and a golf caddy, he was called by a different name then I knew him as. And he was a drunk a daily 20 hour out of the day drunk. I think I saw him completly sober only a few times in my months with him. Not always slurring drunk but drunk. I felt out of my element I felt ackward but I did not feel anything towards him on a whole. As the weeks rolled on this person did try to be fatherish towards me. He took me to see sights or different bars at least he gave me money ect. But there was a growing pissiness in me. In his drunks and efferts he kept telling me how he always knew what was going on in my life. He had always been a father to me of sorts he always helped with us kids ect. He was delusional in this I know it was his way of coping or making himself feel better but I also knew how untrue this was. One day in one of his rants about how he was there and knew everything about me and had always helped. I exploded at him then perceeded to tear every thing in his apartment to shreds. Are R took on a differnt perspective after that. He reprimanded my behavior I sulked we both got over it and went on. But my words of you have never been my father and will never be it is to late stayed between us. I found a good job moved to a place of my own and had very little contact with him after awhile. I had a accident that put me in the hospital for six weeks he found out through my mom came and saw me once or twice but I think he realized though I was okay with him being there I did not need him to be there as a child would there father.
I got married and left California moved to England had a child got divorced moved again had more children got married ect never thinking back to him much. I found my father had been in some contact with my mom over the years. She had sent him pictures of my kids and kept him updated of my life. I felt bad that I had never considered doing this myself after all he had tried. I did not feel he did not deserve to be allowed apart of my life. I just never really gave it much thought. I did try to call him one day after a earthqauke in California I was watching the news and I saw the apartment complex he lived in all those years leveled and I had a sense of feeling sorry for him. In his life he really had not aquired much but what little he did have he lost. I wanted to express my empathy for him. I could not reach him and it seemed to slip my mind after one or two attempts.
My father died a short while after this. He died a very painful death. He died alone just as my mom had perdicted he would often. She had told him someday he would die by himself a lonely death. I did not go to my fathers funeral he had no life insurance he had no money and his family took on the responsiblity of his funeral. He was creamated and burried on top of my uncle he does not have a headstone or a recognition he is even there. This bothers me. I have the military info to get him a headstone but cementary laws do not allow to seperate headstones on one grave. We would have to replace my Uncles headstone or move my father. I feel sad for this I feel sad that he at least tried to reach out regaurdless how long it took and I was unwilling to reach back. But I do not feel guilty for it. I feel sad there is no acknowledgment that my father ever existed or died. But for me and only me I find it fitting that my father lie in my Uncles shadow. My Uncle was willing to take up my fathers responsibilitys in life. And to a degree he has taken up his responsibility in death. For me to look at my fathers grave I have to also honor my Uncle.
So not much there in emotional baggage left over boxed up issues I can see. Anyone seeing something maybe I am overlooking?
Chrissy, if you were my W, I would have thought I struck gold with the shower event and would want to do what it took to do it again
He just happened to walk in to pee.Lol
What about just having comfort sex (shorter tender) with your H for a follow up?
I have no problem with that. I had planned on having sex with him again last night but he got in the way of that.(anger issue thing). We may not have shower escapades on a daily basis. But we do have comfort sex frequently. We have always had sex on the average of twice a week sometimes once then next week three times.
Do you have anythings you could say (mini-assignment) to your H that you would be somewhat comfortable with telling him what might fill one of your emotional needs not related to the marriage or your marrital love tank?
1. For him to allow me some privacy be it in form of a phone call to my mother daughter or whoever.
2. To realize if I am in a quite mood make it a bad thing and not to bait me into a argument of how I am avoiding him or am mad at him just because I am not real chatty. Alot of times it does not relate to him I just go into quite mode for a day or so. Then snap out of it. I am not mean or distant just not chatty.
3. To encourage me to go out of the house and do something for myself. Visit a friend see a movie have a drink anything. Go get a haircut even.
4. For him to go out of the house and do something for himself. Visit a friend see a movie have a drink with out me having to suggest it (he will get the haircut without encouragement).
5. To ask me if I am happy and what I can do to work on it instead of what he can do to work on it.
6. To stay out of my way when I am busy doing something. ie cooking cleaning yard work type things.
There is my list. Simple and easy from my POV. Would be totally offensive and not exceptable from his.
We are still at odds of the backlash from the other day. If I cannot make him understand though I do not mind hugs and kisses from him. I find it frustrating when everytime I turn around I collide into him. Or when I am doing the dishes and he hangs on me from the back hindering my movement and progress. I dont think I can make him understand I would like for him to allow me enough privacy to talk to my mother. Write a reminder to myself or write down a thought I may have. Maybe with time his C can.
Lou I find your insight very helpful. And your medical knowledge is awesome. You rate closer to the expert title then I do.
I do have a wierd question for all Where is GEL. she went on a 5 day vacation and has been off the board for well over 10 is this normal for her or a thing to be concerned about? In the weeks I have been posting she has been here on a daily basis. I know that is odd to ask but I really am a little concerned she did not come back to update on her vacation fun.
Chrissy. 1 to 6 sounds very reasonable. From what you are saying he is very clingy and needy. #1 is normal behavior. He shouldn't expect to be glued to you during girl talk. #2 might be a little difficult for him to determine. #3 I tell BB to do those things. #4 I go out with male friends for lunch. #5 Is one of those fersonal preference areas again. #6 He should be doing that now. I always say never hinder a worker even when I go to a store I get out of the janitor way.
I find it frustrating when everytime I turn around I collide into him I would too. BB has a couple of dogs that follow me around the house and sometimes I trip over them. Frustrating.
Chrissy I spend a lot of time on-line on the medical information. BB and D34 work or worked in hospitals or medical offices. I am a novice with dealing with women in relationships but dang , I try my best. My ideas are different than D34 and BB sometimes. both are/were spenders and have/had way too many pets. I also know how to work. Too well in fact.
HP, GEL, and several other ladies are much better at this R stuff than I am. If I were ever on a date with a woman I might miss half the clues but maybe I am projecting here. BB says things like everyone should know that you do or don't do such and such. I don't look at it that way. I see people having different family traits they take into relationships.
