Scene 1. The Kitchen. Hairdog has grilled some eggplant that had been marinating a day in the fridge. He has grilled some sweet corn. He has made a salad. Nothing else for dinner because, he thinks, this is enough, and he has just gotten home from a swimming lesson for DD4.
W: Is this all there is? I think the eggplant is more of a side dish than a main dish. H: Yes, that's it. W: I think you need to plan more in advance for meals. H: I didn't have a lot of time to prepare this one. W: I mean, maybe you should plan the meals during the weekend. H: I'm not going to do that. W: (said in an irritated voice) Well, do you want me to plan the meals? H: (pause) No. (calmly) I want you to complain less.
Thereafter, pleasant dinnertime conversation ensued, including compliments on the eggplant, recipe found here.
Scene 2. The bedroom. They have just retired for the night. W: I wish you could touch me for my pleasure and not for your pleasure. H: Huh? W: Like this morning. You were thinking of your pleasure, and not really caring whether it would feel good to me. H: This morning? When? I don't remember touching you this morning. W: When you said goodbye. H: (aside) I just kissed her goodbye, as I always do. Maybe I kissed her on her cheek, then her nose, then her mouth, but they were all mere pecks. I was just trying to find her mouth in the dark. H: I just kissed you goodbye. W: Seems like you were trying to get something started. H: Ummm...no. Just saying goodbye. W: I just want you to not want of me. H: Eh? W: I just want you to not want of me. I want you to be comfortable with me saying no.
H: (aside) Oh...that old saw again. But what's this "I just want you to not want of me" thing? Besides being grammatically nightmarish, what does it mean? Well, when I asked her to clarify, she did the old "comfortable with me saying 'no' thing. Maybe it's just a variation on that.
H: I'll have to get my mind around that "want you to want of me" statement. W: (Groggily) Huh? H: (aside) She fell asleep. I must have inner-monologued longer than I realized. H: We'll talk tomorrow
Scene 3. Hairdog driving to work. The cellphone rings. W: Are you mad at me? H: Ummm, no. W: Are you upset? H: No. Why would I be? W: Oh, just about what I said to you last night. H: I'm not mad. Not even upset. I would like to talk some more about it tonight, though. W: Okay. It's just a wish of mine. H: What's a wish? W: That you not 'need' to touch me. H: (aside) WTF. This is what really goes on, folks. Of course I don't 'need' to touch her. I could live the rest of my life without touching her or being touched by her. It's a 'want' sort of thing. I want to touch her, so I do. I used to ask her if it was okay to touch her. That was stupid of me and I don't do it anymore. I let my actions speak for themselves. If I want to touch her, I do. If she responds with touching of her own, great. If she just sits there, I either keep on touching, or I don't. It just kind of depends on how I feel. If I touch her and she says 'no,' fine.
Am I going to be "comfortable" with her saying 'no'? It depends on the meaning of "comfortable." I know, typical lawyer answer. Comfortable: at ease of mind and body. Yes. I am no longer uneasy with her saying 'no.' I used to be. I used to be sad, angry, resentful, etc. No more. I just accept it. I might think, with compassion towards her, that it is too bad that she seems sometimes unable to express or accept affection, at least physically.
But, comfortable: providing physical or emotional comfort. No. There is nothing "comforting" about hearing the word "no" in this context. Especially when you hear it dozens of times. Yes, I can accept it.
H: Well, I don't 'need' to touch you. I'll touch you when I want to. Just say 'no' if you don't want me to. I really don't 'need' to. W: I hope that's true.
(curtain)
Okay, I swear she really talks like this. Tonight, I intend to address her statement that, when I touch her (or kiss her or whatever), that it should not be for my pleasure, but rather, for hers. WTF? Can you say 'fusion'? I refuse to get inside her head and try to figure out if she wants to be touched at a particular moment, whether she will derive pleasure from it, and, at the same time, turn off my pleasure center. I gave that up about the time that I stopped asking her if it was okay to touch her.
Now, I just touch her or kiss her or hug her when I feel like it. Let her, through her actions or words, let me know if it is pleasing or not. And damned if I'm going to be worrying about what's going on in her head and ignore my own sensations. Sometimes, I think she's a robot and is trying to turn me into one. Maybe not a robot....maybe, the Borg. (Scott1701? Help me! Resistance is futile? I will be assimilated?)
Okay. I need to get some work done. Just needed to exercise my abilities as a playwright.
Keep resisting. You cannot and should not try to get inside W's head about whether now is an ok moment and whether a certain touch was for her or for you. A marriage is a "we" endeavor not all for either party. That means sometimes we touch for ourselves and sometimes for our partner. Sometimes we fix dinner for us and sometimes we fix something especially for our partner. And keeping score is a M killer. Your descriptions of your convos wear me out. I don't know how you do it.
Hairy, The Borg is correct. "Resistance is Futile". I'll make an SF geek of you yet.
Although a good current situation to use would be the Blonde Cylon #6 from the new Battlestar Galactica. She is one evil chick.
You are doing a good job of hanging in there guy. Sometimes it seems like its one step forwards and three steps back. Which pretty much covers my situation as well. My W keeps saying she knows she needs to spice things up, but then proceeded to reject my attempts elicit sex. Although we did do something on vacation and outside of our bedroom for the first time in years last week. She was still the one who said "well ok" last week and rejected my request on Sunday.
Hang in there guy, at least the arguments are changing.
Scott -Who is back from vacation and found out that work is still the same.
"Satisfaction is not guaranteed." Rule #19 Ferengi "Rules of Acquistition"
This is a guess on my part, but it sounds like your wife, when she says, "I wish you could touch me for my pleasure and not for your pleasure. I just want you to not want of me," thinks and feels of sex as an expectation you have of her. A performance she must provide for you... so she feels like a passenger on a bus she'd rather not be on, a paying passenger at that, not a desired woman being swept away in a limo.
Seems to me she still has sex wrapped very tightly in a blanket of romance... which is stiffling it's true expression. HD, she doesn't understand SEX... real SEX. She understands a romanticized notion of sex, and HER expectation of romanticized sex leads her to say: "I wish you could touch me for my pleasure and not for your pleasure. I just want you to not want of me."
If you can help her shed the very unrealistic blanket of romance and get her to a point that she can just discuss sex as openly and as clinically as she can one of her cases, it may help her become more comfortable with this whole sex notion.
That's one of the biggest things this board helped me with... desensitizing my romantic sensibilities... helping me openly talk about sex, body parts, body fluids, sex toys, mb'ing, scents and smells, etc., etc., you name it... I gradually began to see IT and me in a whole different light, kwim?
In other words... think of her as one of those kids who's ultra environmentally sensitive... bright lights, loud noises, raised voices... it is a real problem for them and they have to be gradually desensitized to all of it... but not all at once...
Does she even understand that it's okay to laugh during sex because the 'signature move' didn't come off quite right? Or because one of you 'kweefed?' No, I'm sure. This would end all thoughts of another round of sex for the next decade because 'that's not how ML is supposed to be...'
Guess what, HD. Again, it isn't YOU who has the unrealisitc expectations... it's her. But understand that and try to help her. That's a really hard place to get out of and I'll be damned if I know where 90% of us unlucky girls pick up this STUPID notion that sex was always going to be like it is in the romance novels, and even worse, think it's supposed to be like for the REST of our lives.... if it's REAL love...
Hairy, The eggplant sounds delicious. Delectable, even.
So lemme get this straight: You work a full time job, come home and make dinner every night and she complained that it was a light night? She's got balls! That woulda got one a frying pan upside the head, in my home.
Ok, so I don't whack people with frying pans (kitchen violence is best left to pros like MrsNOP) but still I am amazed that a person would complain about a fresh meal cooked for them. I think a summertime meal of vegetables is an excellent choice. At any rate, you stood your ground well. You are getting good at this man of steel stuff!
Regarding the rest of the play, all I can say is stand your ground. There is no reason why she should concern herself with what your motives are when you touch her. She is borrowing trouble.
There is no comfortable when being rejected. Was she comfortable with her father's rejection? Rejection is rejection and it stinks. However, it's not the end of the world and I'm quite certain that you two can negotiate your way around a meaningful sex life if she will just stop dictating what her AND your feelings have to be, prior to the deed.
Corri, I honestly don't know if it is that ML is tied up in romantic notions for her; or if she thinks that her vagina is a sacred shrine to the goddess and I'm not worthy to enter; or if she feels like she's prostituting herself; or if she feels that every penetration, no matter how consensual, is a rape; or if she feels uncomfortable with her body; or if she feels that it's just not that big a deal and it will 'happen' when we are all relaxed and comfortable.
I have heard all these reasons. They change in priority, some drop off the radar screen, and, I think all are given in an attempt to explain her reluctance to touch and be touched, which, I suspect, comes from events and treatment in her childhood which cause her to distrust men, which lay dormant until she took some Women's Studies classes in college, and which now provide ample support for her position, whatever it may be.
This is my suspicion. This is as close as I am able to come to true knowledge of why she is the way she is. Knowledge is power. I am able to dispel her blaming with this knowledge. I know it is she who needs to work on these problems and that all I can provide is support, an occasional push in the right direction, and the constant reminder that she needs to deal with this problem because I am there and want to share marital love with her.
Yes, she feels pressure from me. My mere presence is pressure to her, but I add to that pressure by making physical intimacy a significant issue in our relationship. I think it's one of the reasons we ended up with each other. I was possibly put into her life to force her to deal with these issues. I think she was put in my life to make me deal with my unreasonable sense of responsibility for the world's problems, my unreasonable acceptance of blame, and my unassertiveness. Mission accomplished for her...or at least we're well on the road. For me, I'm still working on getting her to recognize that a need to touch and be touched is not a mere frivolity.
Here is hoping for next weekend!
