RE; Cupcake I was your wife. the only thing that woke me up was my DH leaving.
I am glad you posted what happened to you cupcake. I see on other forums, leaving is sometimes the only thing that wakes up some people. Especially when one spouse thinks the other spouse is too chincken to do something drastic or one spouse thinks "what's the big deal. Things are OK the way they are." Some people don't get it unless you are not there.
Biggest obsticle sometimes is thinking" I don't want to make him/her angry", so too little is tried.
I'm just taking it all in...chewing on it a bit. Keep it coming. (And Lou, you took the words right out of my mouth on the "turning her down" issue. I won't turn her down unless I don't want to ML. Gotta be true to myself.)
As I see it you have two choices if you stay married for your childrens sake.
Keep compromising until you have compromised yourself out of who you are and you no longer recognize or like yourself. And still live a lonely sexless married life into old age.
Stop compromising and pampering the W. Become more focused on yourself and your children and friends. Have a chance to hang on to your self respect maybe not be so lonely for a few years but still live in a sexless marriage.
Either way your left hand becomes your spouse and best friend. Either way you still have lost parts of yourself and your wants and needs. Why would you want to do this? You are smart and God are you funny and hmm cannot tell but you maybe good looking.
Your kids. Yeah they will grow up and develope there own lifes. Sooner or later they will have issues divorced or not there perception of you and your marriage will have some inpact on those issues. But your childrens perceptions and issues will come no matter what your life path is stay or go. Say for example your D grows up gets married and loves her H but is not outwardly affectionate towards him.This grows into a issue for them. Yes she maybe able to say that growing up she did not see hand holding and hugging and kissing between her parents so she did not know that this is a part of a normal relationship. Or say your D grows up gets married and gets a divorce later she can say well my parents did it so it is normal to give up.
Either way you and your wife and your R and your childrens issues collide to some degree but your R and choices within it are not responsible for the outcome of your childrens R and issues more then that a degree. Children do not tend to live there whole life by just one example. No more then you did.
So probabley not well stated but the point. Find another reason to stay married in the end your children will grow up have there own lifes and you will be where? Oh yeah old loney and sexless.
Unconditional love well you are unhappy and your unsatisfied in your R but you still love your W. And I think that whether you decide to stay or go you will still love her. what is more unconditional then that?
I think and maybe I am wrong that tomorrow in your one on one you really need to speak in depth to the C about your growing frustration about this issue and the despondency it is causing you within life. And that you feel you are being forced into a position where you feel you have to decide. And that you fear the pressure of the frustration and the situation may make you make the wrong choice. But you are at a crossroad and something has to happen. You are willing to walk half the way. Which I see as already done and saying I will walk half of her way but you would atleast like a drink of water before you continue the journey. Would it not be nice if for once a C could actually say well from were I sit and what I see and my experience as a C this is what I think should happen instead of saying. So what do you think and what do you think should happen and why do you think this.I always want to scream at them well if I knew that I would not be here I would be basking in the sun in Hawaii on the money I have given you! A answer a simple knowledged based answer would be nice once in a while to make us all feel our money is well spent. Sorry for the rant!
Let me ask you this. If you declare unconditional love to her the kind she wants no sex no pressure and what ever else she views as unconditional love. And you stay with her and say 6 months from now you have a PA(not loving just sexual takes nothing from your unconditional love for her) is her love so unconditional that she will say thats fine I accept it no problem? Or does her love contain the condition you remain faithful.If so that is hyprocrispy.(a big issue for me gonna leave that alone)
My point don't stay married for the childrens sake. If you choose to stay married do it for your sake. Point out to your wife that unconditional love you already give her and will continue to give her because you do love her and always will no matter what. But you can love her from another state just as unconditionally as you do from your home. And your ability to give her unconditional love may rely on her ability to give it to you also. What is that saying do on to others?
Sorry long sorry blunt in places. But seeing you as giving up on yourself in that last post and not really knowing you but feeling that would be a great loose to society you seem like a really wonderful person. If I happen across your wife on my side of the fence I may not be able to resist giving her a thump on the head
Quote: It might work for people who ML two or four times a week but not that frequency on a yearly basis. Almost BTDT myself. It sucks.
Absolutely right, Lou. Been there myself. It will just let her off the hook. Mrs. Hairdog will think "Oh, well, I tried!" And that will be that, for several months or more..... she will NOT come back and try again the next night, or any night soon.
Quote: "I will do whatever I want and, though it may hurt people, I will still be cherished and my viewpoint respected."
This does not exist.
HP: True, that doesn't exist. But, that's not unconditional love. You're mixing love with respect. Of course, if my child becomes a bank robber, I will not "respect" his "viewpoint". But I will still love him.
Unconditional love does exist, but not in a marriage. Married people stop loving each other all the time. If my wife started cheating on me and treating her like dirt, I would stop loving her eventually. But there is literally nothing that would make me stop loving my kids.
A few months ago Jeffrey Dahmer's parents were on Larry King. It was pretty amazing. To them, he was just "Jeff", and they were clearly heartbroken that he was dead. The talked and acted pretty much like you would expect any parents to act if their kid had died. It was clear they didn't condone what he did, but they still loved him. Now, that is unconditional love!
I tend to agree with what Chrissy had to say. You shouldn't stay just for the child. It is pretty clear that this unconditional love thing that the wife keeps throwing out is a smoke screen for insecurities. I would talk with the C about this and see what her take on things are. I doubt very much that you stating that you have unconitional love. Will just let her right off the of the hook.
Hi hairdog...It's unfortunate she has side-tracked you, once again, into the unconditional love discussion. She gets some awareness/openness and then furiously rushes to defend herself...an old story. If you can, try to limit these kind of talks.
Good luck at the C tomorrow... you have this whole board behind you,lol. I agree with Chrissy that you should let the therapist know how much you are hurting inside...I imagine that IRL your humor and personality defelcts a lot.
BTW...a review...how long have you been in MC? When was the last time you and W were intimate?
Quote: how long have you been in MC? When was the last time you and W were intimate?
We have been in counseling since February. The last time we were intimate was...sheesh, I can't even remember...maybe in April. Maybe one time prior to that this year.
Paul, You and I are in agreement. I agree that that is not unconditional love and that was precisely my point.
What MrsHD wants is unconditional acceptance of her unwillingness to meet Hairy's needs. Or even to try.
Only she is phrasing this as wanting unconditional love. I was pointing out that this is not what UL love is. Like Zbube said (and Dahmer's parents so creepily illustrate) there is nothing that will make me stop loving my girls. But I would not ACCEPT their actions if they were robbing banks. I would not say, Oh that's okay, who cares! Come on, I'll make you some cinnamon rolls.
Well, you and I are saying the same thing, that's all I wanted to point out. MrsHD has a way of using her considerable brain power to try and twist things to her advantage. Debate team type bullcrud.
I find it sad that she feels the need to do this, but my own argumentative side wants to jump in and say, Whoa that's not unconditional love! She's putting conditions on her love for him (I won't have sex with you until you feel xyz about me) but requiring that he not do the same.
