Hairdog, Even parents unconditional love for their children does not equate to "You can do whatever you want and I will be here with open arms and a smile".
If my D5 decides to be a bank robber when she grows up, I will be sure to let her know that my personal boundaries will not allow me to condone this lifestyle and that I will not be an accomplice in any way, shape or form to the choices she makes. I will still love her. My heart will ache for her and I will long for the day when she turns her life around.
But I will NOT say, D I accept you the way you are and though your choices do not reflect what the experts say will bring happiness, I stand by you and applaud your sense of individuality.
I would, however, let her know how much I love her and always will.
What your wife seems to want is acceptance of the person she is. She wants to say, Hairy I only want to ML twice per year and have you be okay with that. Which I'm sure you would be if she were a colleague or your sister. But she is your wife and she is taking you along for the ride.
I think there is a way to say, Wife I accept that you don't feel the urge to ML except for a few times a year. The follow up to that sentence, though, is a silent but insistent "but I assume that you will take my needs into consideration anyway because that's what happens in loving relationships."
Well, the babe is crying but what I wanted to say is that all of this shiit about unconditional love is yet another smokescreen. Keep chipping away at it; good luck at the session tomorrow.
Quote: So I need to do some out-loud thinking here.
She wants me to declare my unconditional love for her, because me saying that "I will not stay in a sexless marriage forever" puts too much "pressure" on her, makes her feel like a prostitute, etc.
I would point out that her expectation of your unconditional love puts too much pressure on you. That it makes you feel like a roommate rather than a husband.
Have you asked her to define unconditional love in a way that applies to *both* of you?
Have I ever refused? Maybe, once, many years ago because I was ill at the time.
Does she ever initiate? Lately, it has ALWAYS been at her initiation, because either I don't bother trying (having hit my head against that brick wall 100 times, I don't need to hit it one more time to know it's probably gonna hurt), or because my initation attempts are thwarted.
Quote: The big problem is that, like a lot of you, I don't think mature adults in a marriage have that unconditional love for each other, that, rather, unconditional love is (or should be) given to one's children, and, depending on your beliefs, given to you by God, or the higher being of your choice. There are always conditions. If I beat her. If I beat the kids. If I became a drug addict and spent all our money. If I became a gambling addict and spent all our money. If I became mentally disturbed and started crashing our cars and burning our house. If I insisted that, every morning, I had to go into the front yard and move my bowels. If I started showing up every day at her office and, instead of bringing flowers, brought a six pack of beer and drank it all in five minutes.
I've been mostly lurking of late, but I have to reply to this one. I do believe that I love MrsBube unconditionally. Under the circumstances that you've cited, I'll readily admit that I might find it impossible to continue living with her, but I have no doubt that I would still love her.
If your kid became physically violent, you would still love him/her wouldn't you? So why not your wife? If your child became a drug addict, you would still love that child. Why not your wife? If your child crashed your house, burned your yard, and took a dump in your car, you would have to take steps to protect yourself, your property, and your child, but you would still love the child. Why is the same not true of your W as well?
I don't know how, or even if this applies to your sitch, but it might help MrsDog to understand your POV. You can declare unconditional love, but explain that there are conditions under which you might find it impossible to continue living with her - even though you would still love her. Your list includes aberrant behaviors which would make living with her untenable. Maybe you can make her understand that although you do love her and will continue to love her, you consider a complete lack of a physical relationship to be one of the aberrant behaviors that would make living together untenable. It’s worth a shot anyway.
Quote: Maybe you can make her understand that although you do love her and will continue to love her, you consider a complete lack of a physical relationship to be one of the aberrant behaviors that would make living together untenable. It’s worth a shot anyway.
I've done this. I told her last week that, while I may still love her, I wouldn't be able to live with her. She dismissed this as semantics. "Oh great. You'll divorce me, leave me because I'm not giving you sex, and still say, 'but I love you.' Thanks, but no thanks!"
Your wife thinks, she's got you figured out, so why not change the routine. Let her initiate, and when she does, nicely turn it down. This would surely get her thinking what you are up to.
I was your wife. the only thing that woke me up was my DH leaving. Separated for a year. Been back together for a year now. It certainly got my attention. No, I am not as high drive as he is, but I meet him in the middle.
Your wife doesn't think you will leave over this. I thought mine wouldn't. I was wrong! I am sorry to say that him leaving is what turned us around. I don't wish it on anyone, but I now have a profound respect for what is healthy and expected in a good marriage.
RE: AndyAndy so why not change the routine. Let her initiate, and when she does, nicely turn it down.
Are you telling HD to turn down twice or four times a year sex? It might work for people who ML two or four times a week but not that frequency on a yearly basis. Almost BTDT myself. It sucks.
Sorry for jumping in here HD. I am not trying to speak for you. I guess I see your situation similar to mine, except I can do the touchng but little gets returned.
