RE: HD What gets me is that she is able to find just about anything to support her "cause," and then ignores almost everything else.
Hairdog. That is one of the things that frustrate me so much. I present my opinion and some options and BB stickis to her opinions.
I can imagine you saying what you would like and suggesting some options to your W and she is sticking to her wants and feelings and not considering any options.
This style of 'one-sided against the other / oppositional stance', causes me so much frustration sometimes I just want to give up. It seems to be a no win contest and I imagine you feel that way too sometime. But we know quitting either by giving in or leaving is loosing too.
I liked the above post suggesting that you say to your W, If you never leave you will still be disagreeing about this untill your 50th aniversery.
I will keep reading HD. I hope you have good things comming your way soon.
What gets me is that she is able to find just about anything to support her "cause," and then ignores almost everything else. AH this is so true for all of us. So do not think her validation ability is because she is right. Ever have a Jehovia (?) Witness come to your house? I use to all the time hated it at first. But came to a point where I looked forward to it. Why well I noticed alot of times what they said was not in any Bible I had read. So I started paying attention and noticed all there flipping through pages and underlined sentances. So when they would leave I would write down what they said then go back and not read the sentence but the whole paragraph it was contained in. One fine day when they arrived I pulled out my notebook and Bible and said you have told me that the Bible said this but really it says this sentence regaurding this issue and that sentence regaurding another. And the meaning is nothing near what you are preaching. After a few weeks of them coming and me saying no read the whole paragraph to me not your sentences they stopped coming at all. The point we can all find validation when we only see and point out only the sentences we want others to see. You can twist anyone ones words around to make them say what you want them to say even Gods.
I do apolize if anything I said in the above mention of the JW offends anyone. I am not bashing them I actually loved the challenge that they brought me with there visits.
But there is a meaning to the story if you look for validation any of us can find it. But it does not make us any more right or anymore wrong. It just makes us one of the masses.
What offends me about my W playing "book wars" with me is that, first, it seems all about her being right, and me being wrong. Second, as a former academician, she should know that what she is doing is intellectually dishonest. Finally, I just wish she'd put in 1/10th of the energey she spends fighting this issue, into loving me.
There is a certain amount of having to say "I'm sorry, I neglected you" when an LD person decides to ditch the LDness and go for the gusto. Having to say that is NEVER a pleasant thing, but I suspect it is the equivalent of being strung up on the rack, for your wife. I honestly think she'd choose medieval torture devices over having to come to you, her husband, and say she's been wrong and needs your help.
My sister is a type 1 and she is a lovely person. Absolutely my best friend. However, her husband has called me before just out of his mind with frustration. He can't clean the floors right, she thinks he should clean the showers more frequently than twice per month. Etc. Reminded me quite a bit of your situation.
Anyway, my point is that she'd have an almost impossible time of being wrong and apologizing for letting this aspect of their marriage go by the wayside. First, someone would be to *blame*.
I find the enneagram stuff to be so fascinating because it makes other people seem so much more tolerable, knowing this is a quirk particular to that type of person. Before I had a tendency to take too much credit for my good traits (how ma-toor I must be to not turn toilet-cleaning into dubya dubya three, etc) and brush aside (or be unaware of) my bad traits.
What I wanted to say is: Knowing that her personality will find it nearly impossible to admit to being wrong, is there another way to move forward without that step?
That's the beauty of the schedule (sorry, I know I'm harpin). She will not have to look like she is admitting fault..she's not stepping up to the plate on her own and just doing it. She is merely showing up on schedule night. It is a slight but subtle difference.
HD, It occurs to me that you are the physical manifestation of Mrs.HDs struggle with herself. Most likely she doesn't see it that way. The more I read your posts the clearer it becomes to me that she is using her intelligence not only against you, but against herself. Some people are too smart for their own good. They can come up with more rationalizations for why they continue to behave in an unproductive manner than the regular Joe can. They can word it so it sounds perfectly logical. The emotional component is completely avoided by intellectualizing the discussion. It may be impossible for you to make much headway until Mrs.HD stops using her grand IQ to avoid feeling.
I don't mind the sun sometime
The images it shows
I can taste you on my lips
And smell you in my clothes
Cinnamon and Sugar
And softly spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through someone elses eyes
BHS-"Pepper"
Oddly last night while I was working in my flower garden I started thinking about your sitch. And I wondered what is your wifes perception of your marriage ? What issues does she see as being the grounds for unhappiness or dissatisfaction in the R. Does she think if you would just get over the sex issue you two would have the perfect relationship or does she site other reasons or issues that need to be addressed? Just curoius. Also another oddity off the wall this one is. Everytime I think of your name I start thinking about the Nazereth song Son of a Bitch could not figure out why since that is not a perception I have of you but last night it came to me, The name of the album is Hair of the dog lol. Strange how the mind works!
Hope you have a great day today. I am not feeling so blue for myself today. Not that any thing has changed but ahhh urghh to that.
She wants me to declare my unconditional love for her, because me saying that "I will not stay in a sexless marriage forever" puts too much "pressure" on her, makes her feel like a prostitute, etc.
I told her that I'm reluctant to declare this, as 1) I find it hard to envision a lifetime of "knowing" she loves me, yet "feeling" unloved because of the possibility of a lack of physical attention (hugs, kisses, touches, and sex); and 2) even if I did declare this, she may still do what she's done in the past with similar declarations of mine and say "you don't really mean that in your heart" because she thinks she knows me better than I know myself.
So, what are my options? I.) Declare my unconditional love for her. II) Don't declare my unconditional love for her.
If Option I is taken, things may or may not get better in the marriage. The big problem is that, like a lot of you, I don't think mature adults in a marriage have that unconditional love for each other, that, rather, unconditional love is (or should be) given to one's children, and, depending on your beliefs, given to you by God, or the higher being of your choice. There are always conditions. If I beat her. If I beat the kids. If I became a drug addict and spent all our money. If I became a gambling addict and spent all our money. If I became mentally disturbed and started crashing our cars and burning our house. If I insisted that, every morning, I had to go into the front yard and move my bowels. If I started showing up every day at her office and, instead of bringing flowers, brought a six pack of beer and drank it all in five minutes.
There are always conditions.
Option II is more likely. So let's assume I don't declare unconditional love for her. She'll either be pissed off, or not. She'll eventually accept it. Her answer to me, when I asked, "What if I can't declare unconditional love for you?" was, "that's fine, I'll still love you, but I don't know when I'll feel enough trust and comfort with you to want to ML with you again."
So, I can leave. Or I can stay and shut up and lead a life of quiet desperation. Or I can stay and fight and fight and fight. Or I can stay and decide to be blissful, quiet, and asexual. Or I can stay and be a philanderer.
But realistically, my options are leaving, or staying and continuing the conflict.
I have a daughter who was adopted from China. She will likely have, as she grows older, issues with her abandonment by her biological mother. I know that, even if I remain a part of her life after a divorce, she will feel abandonment issues in connection with me. I have three other children who have already lived through a divorce. They have issues of their own.
I think, when all is said and done, that I will probably stay with my W. Not necessarily because it is the best thing for me, but because it is probably the best thing for the kids. It may turn out to be the best thing for me...you never know.
Quote: what is your wifes perception of your marriage ? What issues does she see as being the grounds for unhappiness or dissatisfaction in the R. Does she think if you would just get over the sex issue you two would have the perfect relationship or does she site other reasons or issues that need to be addressed?
My wife sees marriage, in general, as two people committed to a life together, with common interests, common spiritual goals, supporting each other emotionally.
Her perception of OUR marriage? Hairdog will never be happy, I can't make him happy, so why even try. We're co-parents, co-habitators, and we share debt.
Yes, she probably thinks that if I "get over" the sex issue, most of our major issues will be worked out. She does tend to think that she has given and given and given and that I still want more from her, yet I am unwilling to give.
I think we've both made sacrifices, continue to make sacrifices, and, heck, while we're doing all this sacrificing, why not make it fun and make love once in a while?
RE: HD she may still do what she's done in the past with similar declarations of mine and say "you don't really mean that in your heart" because she thinks she knows me better than I know myself.
I see you have this situation too.It make it difficult when you state your feelings to have someone else say "you don't feel that way, you really feel this other way."
It sounds like your C has to help her learn to take what you tell your W for what is said rather than what your W invents.
There is little progress to be made when the other spouse uses a different dictionary and places their interpretation on words.
But realistically, my options are leaving, or staying and continuing the conflict. HD you can also try a controlled seperation. From reading other threads on other forums, the seperation wakes some people up if it is done carefully. It's one of those "You don't miss the water until the well runs dry" things.
