Trinaa- Upon thought I just wanted to add...cheating for the sake of a 180? I think you better start with the basics and really learn the gist of what DBing is all about. Don't do a 180 for the sake of doing a 180. I've never killed someone. So should I do that as a 180? Ok. An extreme example. Figure out your goals. Figure out YOU and what you want to be and what will make you feel good about who you are. Probably a thread focusing specifically on your personal sitch and your personal growth would be a good way to start bouncing your thoughts off on others.
Thanks ST, I know it kinda sounded crazy:). I was having a rough time of it when I posted that last one. I have been doing 180s for myself not necessarily for the H. As far as he is concerned atm, I am just his friend and that's what I am focusing on right now. It has sort of helped him open up to me about what he is feeling about our sitch and his R w/ the OW, although I did tell him, talking about the OW does bother and upset me, perhaps, I said, he could find a neutral party to talk to about her. S and I went to our first counseling session last night, H went too, but isn't sure he wants to continue. I did not push. I told him fine, he could just go w/ S if he wanted. There are 10 sessions and it's basically family counselling, mainly to help S get through this. It's free so that is why they focus on the children more than the parents. They say one parent plus child can go at different times, but prefer both parents to be there. So, I figured, if he just wants to go for a session with S alone, let him. I won't persist. As for the other thing...I am just going to hang out w/ friends b/c they make me feel good about myself and i have been feeling kinda low lately...especially w/ my anniv. coming up on Sunday and H going out of town w/ OW today for the w/e. He once again is going to her parent's house. I don't understand..sigh...but i stop thinking about it !:)
Trinaa, about 180s... the way I understand them defined in DR are for creating noticeable differences in order to capture the attention of the WAS to pop you into their mind saying, "What's the LBS up to?" so that they ponder on you. I think the other purpose it serves is to help boost the PMA of the LBS. Well, fine and good, so folks wear new do's and start mountain biking.
But I think those all touch upon the superficial outer layers and that more important are the 180s in the patterns and behaviors that served to not mix well in a relationship. Was the LBS not meeting emotional needs, for example? Very common and very probable. Those are the changes that, over time, show the WAS that the things that made them unhappy are no longer present. The impact of that is much more far reaching than a new do. For one thing, it can clear the way for the WAS to reconsider the relationship. For another, it can create the opportunity for the WAS to realize that, if the LBS has changed with the problems no longer existing, any unhappiness the WAS has with their current circumstances aren't because of the problems they were walking away from, but rather, are their own demons.
NY, thats what I'm trying to do. I am not looking back at the past and saying i should have's..rather i am looking at the mistakes I made in our marriage and saying..ok i did that, so NOW what can i do to change that so it doesn't happen again. I told H this this morning. I told him straight out, everything that happened was not just his fault, it was the OW's fault and my fault as well. But it doesn't matter, b/c now we have to look at this moment, and learn from what happened in order to change our behaviors...that's what I am focusing on. I am also being more attentive to him, listening more, but still..i am being more distant. HE called me to see how i was doing, not the other way around. HE has been calling to talk to me, not the other way around. Yes, I may email him a cute Ecard and stuff, to say, we're thinking of you, and that's b/c I took him for granted and I want him to know we (S and I) think he is special to us. I think those things might be working, b/c he said to me today that he misses me sometimes. He also doesn't like the idea of me being with anyone else...I told him, well, it may or may not happen, i do not know. B/C simply, he hasn't said to me, I may come home, or I may do this..so let him wonder a bit. UHM, what's PMA? I still don't have the book...no money:(... Anyway, I am trying when we talk, to be positive about things, or tell him that this thing bothers me please let's not discuss it... He said, he would have stayed in town this weekend had I mentioned my get together with friends I am having on Saturday to him, earlier. But I felt he would be uncomfortable with them, so I didn't tell him. He found out from our mutual friend that I was having the party (that was Sunday) and he waited til Wed to see if I would mention it. When I didn't, he brought it up and i told him the reason I didn't invite him. He doesn't think it's the truth, but it is, and so be it. I let it go. I also told him he was more than welcome to come, but he is choosing to go away. So be it again...I'm not going to change his mind about things..I encouraged him to have a good time.
OK. I didn't get that sense reading through how you were 180ing, so I thought I'd mention it.
I told H this this morning. I told him straight out, everything that happened was not just his fault, it was the OW's fault and my fault as well.
That's R talk, isn't it? Reminding a WA of their part in the failure of the R at this stage... I dunno! Wouldn't that make them feel guilty? And why bring up the OW at all?
UHM, what's PMA? I still don't have the book...no money:(
Stands for "Positive Mental Attitude". If you don't have the funds for the book, why not check your local library for a copy? Chances are even if they don't have it, they can get a copy.
I also told him he was more than welcome to come, but he is choosing to go away.
Don't take this the wrong way, as I'm not coming down on you. If I were to make a suggestion, it would be to omit telling him what he's doing ("I also told him... he is choosing to go "), what he's done ("I told him straight out, everything that happened was not just his fault"), what he should do ("I told H this this morning... we have to look at this moment, and learn from what happened in order to change our behaviors")... let him figure it out himself. Focus entirely on you.
So in the above example, if you want to invite him, invite him. And if not, don't. But don't not invite him because you believe he'll choose not to go. That's like thinking for him and making his decision for him.
It's a little controlling-like and presumptuous to do another's thinking and determinations for them. It can make the person feel guilty around you, which isn't a pleasant feeling and if they get enough of that may seek to avoid you; it can raise their defenses, which serves to divide rather than unite. It's a better approach to deal from your own center and how it affects you, rather than making determinations how others should go about it.
For you, it would mean freedom from a connection to acting in a way that's linked to what you believe the outcome of his actions would be. Surprising things can happen when one detaches from that and permits an environment where the WAS can come to their own conclusions. For example, opportunities for positive contacts may have been explored if you had invited him and he decided to attend.
Though he comes around, don't be misled into thinking that the above mentioned behaviors have no consequence, rather, see this as an area where tweaking it into a more positive vein may result in more positive baby steps.
Thanks NY, I think I should clarify something first off. He is the one who is actually approaching me about talk of how he is feeling towards me and the OW, so if he makes the first move about R talk, I validate his statements and give him advice, because he's asking me for it, not because I am just assuming or giving it to him for no reason. He wants me to be his friend, I told him I am here for him, but also told him that the way I feel about when he talks about the OW bothers me so perhaps he should find a neutral party to talk about it. When I do mention something to him about what he should do, or something, I start the statement something like this, "Ok, so you are feeling this way...I feel that maybe what you need to do is...(look at it this way...etc..etc..)but it is up to you to decide." I give him advice b/c he asks for it, or try to uplift him b/c he tells me he's unhappy (these are just examples). I didn't not invite him b/c he'd choose not to go, I just didn't invite him b/c I thought it would be awkward for everyone b/c the ppl who I invited know that we aren't together and that it might be awkward for him as well. I have been getting positive results from him if I listen, validate and offer some advice but not my opinion. I tell him if he asks about things.."I'm not sure b/c I am not you, but this is what I am feeling or thinking...(or something like that) and I also tell him, no one can decide things for u, u have to do that on your own. He hasn't really gotten angry or mad or anything when I've been talking to him (minus Thursday), so maybe that's a positive. But this w/e he's away w/ OW and I am focusing on having fun. I am going out w/ some friends tonight and for my anniversary tomorrow, I am not sure what i am doing, but it will probably be with my S. H said he may stop by tomorrow night, if for no other reason than to make sure the car we sold is ready to be picked up on Monday...not sure why he said that the way he did, maybe to make me feel bad or whatever..but I am not letting it bother me, it was just strange coming from him. LOL:)
I give him advice b/c he asks for it, or try to uplift him b/c he tells me he's unhappy (these are just examples).
When he relates his OW woes to you (which I think is a good thing for you to become his confidante), instead of giving advice or lifting his spirits, have you thought about just letting him go through it himself, with you perhaps having him self-reflect, in order for him to draw the answers out from, and for, himself? As in this manner:
H: "OW twists every other thing I say and uses it against me. What can I do about that?" T: "That must be terrible. How does that make you feel?" H: "Like she has some sort of agenda... I mean, it's like she's looking for something to attack me on." T: "Why do you think she does that?" H: "I dunno. She's just mean to me sometimes, for no reason." T: "So, what are you thinking of doing about that?" H: "Not sure. But I know I don't like it."
and for all we know, that leads the way for H to reflect internally, perhaps drawing closer to a conclusion that OW is not compatible with him, nor the person she originally presented herself to be.
Let him sink to the bottom when he's discussing these matters; save the positive uplifts for when he's reflecting favorably on you and your relationship with him. Subtly therefore influence him.
I didn't not invite him b/c he'd choose not to go, I just didn't invite him b/c I thought... that it might be awkward for him as well.
That's still in the realm of doing his thinking/making decisions for him, isn't it?
I tell him if he asks about things.."I'm not sure b/c I am not you, but this is what I am feeling or thinking
I like that "I am not you".
H said he may stop by tomorrow night, if for no other reason than to make sure the car we sold is ready to be picked up on Monday...not sure why he said that the way he did, maybe to make me feel bad or whatever
He probably said it with no intent toward manipulating your feelings. It may be he's using it as an excuse to come by.
NY, Thanks for the replies. I will think about those things and try to use them when he talks about her again. Tonight I am going out and having fun with my friends. Tomorrow I'm not sure what I am doing. If I go out, maybe he'll wonder where I am if he does come by. That would be good:). Anyway, thanks again!:)It really helps put things into perspective.
Well, last night the party was cancelled b/c no one came, however my girl friend and I went out dancing and had a blast! I didn't get home until 3am! Latest I've been out in a LONNNNNNG time..I had a great time dancing and feeling attractive again. It's been a while. I know that H had tried to show me that in our M, but sometimes they do it out of duty, u know? Anyway, today was our anniversary, I went out w/ my friend Liz, and then went to pick up my S at his Uncle's. (last min decision to stay over so I could go out and have fun). H called while i was there and asked where I was b/c he was waiting at the house to get the stuff for the car we are selling (this was on VM). I called back, told him where i was, and he said well, I am not waiting. To my surprise, he was still here, and in the house getting stuff for the car when I got home. It was a bit awkward at first and then we had a talk, and I told him we should make love b/c it was our anniv. and that he and I hardly did it on our Anniv, cuz we are usually at my parent's on vacation. So we did...it was really great, and I think he connected more w/ me today that way than we had before. But then, he said he was going to break free...let go of us. I acted like it didn't matter, but then I got upset...and told him why. We had a long discussion, and right now my instinct tells me it was all supposed to happen...i am following my intuition, and doing what I should be in terms of DBing..for the most part, and I'm thinking it might be working. He says tho that he talked to OW's sister over the W/e when they were visiting her parents, and sister said OW has it bad for him..that she's never felt like this about anyone before..so he did talk to me about her, and I listened and just verified and gave some views, but remarked again that I am not him....So now what????
Hey all, new news to report..thought id just stick to this forum, seems less confusing with the threads since Im still new to all this. H came over this morning before work so we could play . I convinced him to "relieve his pressure" by coming here and I would make him a lunch for work and he could shower etc...HE DID!:) He says he is still confused, he is still talking to me about OW and I am doing well trying to just listen and rationalize about it. He was really upset that I went dancing Sat night and that other men were touching me while we danced..He doesn't understand why he is jealous especially if he is trying to let go, he says he's trying to let go of me....or that he did last night or whatever..(obviously he hasn't). I think he wants to let go, but he's thinking of the wrong one to let go of...does anyone know if that's possible? Has anyone been in that sitch? I mentioned that to him, said "you know, maybe it's not me u want to let go of" (or something like that..) and he said thats what OW said too..I said well, yeah, cuz she wants u...he said well, so do u. I said yes, but sitch is different, he has a family we have created, a home HE has established, a life HE has made...*(notice I used HE there instead of WE,giving him the idea that he is the main of the household). I think in my sitch, sex is the key to getting him back...or at least the biggest step to doing it. He had started out w/ me when we first began this, that it felt wrong, that he shouldn't etc.,..now that is hardly said at all...and b/c I am being more open and honest and less inhibited by things, I think that is helping as well. Any comments????
Anyway, I am trying when we talk, to be positive about things, or tell him that this thing bothers me please let's not discuss it...
. I convinced him to "relieve his pressure" by coming here and I would make him a lunch for work and he could shower etc...HE DID!:) He says he is still confused, he is still talking to me about OW and I am doing well trying to just listen and rationalize about it. He was really upset that I went dancing Sat night and that other men were touching me while we danced..He doesn't understand why he is jealous especially if he is trying to let go, he says he's trying to let go of me....or that he did last night or whatever..(obviously he hasn't). I think he wants to let go, but he's thinking of the wrong one to let go of...does anyone know if that's possible? Has anyone been in that sitch? I mentioned that to him, said "you know, maybe it's not me u want to let go of" (or something like that..) and he said thats what OW said too..I said well, yeah, cuz she wants u...he said well, so do u. I said yes, but sitch is different, he has a family we have created, a home HE has established, a life HE has made...*(notice I used HE there instead of WE,giving him the idea that he is the main of the household). I think in my sitch, sex is the key to getting him back...or at least the biggest step to doing it. He had started out w/ me when we first began this, that it felt wrong, that he shouldn't etc.,..now that is hardly said at all...and b/c I am being more open and honest and less inhibited by things, I think that is helping as well. Any comments????