My wife, who was essentially a WAW who never left the house, agreed to "try" again to be a couple with me again. I did what I don't think I'm supposed to do when DBing, which was convince her (I've also been DBing for two months, fairly well, I think, and she has had a bit of time to get over a EA she had with a fellow at her work). We are without our two boys this weekend and she agreed it was a good time to try to start building back our relationship and trying to be a couple again. This was after she said that maybe she would spend the some time away at her Mom's while the boys where gone, but I gave her a honest and heartfelt speech about what I felt and what I think could happen, and after some intial doubts, she agreed. She is still pessimistic, and is "empty" inside, but she's giving it a try. Last night she initiated holding my hand in a movie two times, a gesture of effection towards me that she hasn't done in maybe a year.
We've just been on a vacation where we were together contantly for 6 days. I was on my best DBing behavior, and perhaps she's seeing that my changes are for real and I'm committed to our marriage and her in the best possible way.
The thing is, now I'm nervous as can be. I didn't really expect her to try again, at least not something where she agreed to go along with me and it was out in the open (I was expecting her just to slowly and silently come around, or perhaps divorce me). She resists anything she sees as "my way," and I really don't want her just to humor me, I want it to be something for the two of us, equally. How do I do that? I, too, need my empty and often bad feelings replaced with good ones of love and trust, but now that I've got the chance it's surprised me and I'm trying to figure out what are the best things to do to build back our good feelings and love. I've read DR, and have a slew of other books to draw from, but I think I'm in a bit of a state of shock and paralysis for fear of losing something now that I've got it this far.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. References to Michelle's books are good, too.
OH--I can understand your nervousness. You want everything to be perfect and to win her love back. Just take it nice and slow. For the weekend, my advice is to "act as if" you are on a date--taking her out for the first time. On a first date you wouldn't talk about R because there wouldn't be one yet, so don't talk about it. Just go have fun and enjoy her company. Don't even touch her if she gives you a signal that she is uncomfortable with it. But try not to take it personal either. Let her initiate any talking or touching. Just be on a date having a good time. When it's over thank her and let her know you had a great time (assuming you do, of course) and appreciated the time together.
Don't have any expectations of her either. And know that your R isn't going to be fixed in a weekend. It's going to take some time and hard work on your part. Back off a little and let her see what a kind, gentle, fun loving person you are.
You may find you have to bite your tongue alot but it can be done. Patience is the key. Take your time and let her take hers.
Thank you molliew. Thank you. Printing it out. I'm going to try and follow you're advice to a T. The hard part for me is that I often feel better if I touch her, and often she doesn't, so that is particularly difficult for me to resist. I also tend to be the talker in our relationship, but that has been a problem for us, too, so I'm working on being a quiet man for now.
The situation is we're together all this week without the children, until Saturday. We sleep together sometimes (when she doesn't go sleep on the couch) and spend our evenings together, too. So the dates we'll have will be followed by going home together and resuming family routines.
Patience, patience, patience. It's difficult, but I think I can do it.
I know--I want to touch too but my H isn't a touchy guy. He really gets annoyed when I touch him in public--doesn't like "public displays of affection". I have to respect that. I am always thinking about whether my actions and reactions are about me or him. Usually it's about me and I need to remember to look at it from his point of view too and to respect his feelings about things. I really want him to have the same feelings as me and I've tried to make him feel the same and understand (wow, what a control freak I am!). I am learning to accept that he (and other people) can have different ideas and opinions than me, and it's OK
So, try to let her run the show for awhile and see what happens. She is very confused about her feelings right now and she'll have to sort through them herself. Your support and love will be appreciated eventually.
Well, after DBing fairly well for 6 weeks, I fell off the wagon last night and gave my wife a speech about what we should be doing to try and make things better if she's going to try. I completely tried to convice her. She wasn't totally unreceptive, so I'm not sure what to make of it. She did say she doesn't want to talk about the relationship because all she has to say will hurt me, and I replied with just give up all that for now and try to work it out with me. I'm tired of talking because it never seems to accomplish much anyway. And what is there to lose? Either we do or we don't reconnect, but at least we'd have tried our best. I think she knows it's the right thing, but her hearts not in it (maybe still under the effects of the OM and EA which has only been over for 6 weeks, I hope). I keep telling her to ignore the emotions for now and just use her brain to do what needs to be done. That's what I've been doing, the "Act the loving spouse until you are a loving spouse," method, and believe me it works. If I hadn't had made the decision to just go against my feelings and be nice to her when I wanted to shout and scream and hurt her, I'd be out on the street right now. I even considered burning down our house at one point after she made a partcularly cruel statement. That's a big turn around for such a simple method.
This morning and today she has been reluctantly part of the "trying" process. She gave me a kiss when we said goodbye this morning, and last night she let me give her 5 good minutes of affection (hugging, some kissing, some kissing back) which is about all I can muster myself at this point (I too have issues with her [OM and that she didn't let on about her unhappiness] that often get in the way of trying).
Today she bought an extra large coffee so I could share some at lunch. She was the nicest I've heard her on the phone since the bomb. She let me have the car in the afternoon and was cheerful about it. She really does seem to be trying.
And tonight I have us setup for a dinner at a really good restaurant. I'm hoping that we can enjoy ourselves to the point of maybe 6 minutes of affection when we get home. ;^)
So tonight I hope to stop talking and just act the loving spouse. The talking is what screws it up. She doesn't seem to mind so much if I display affection if it feels genuine, so I'll stick with that when she accepts it. Everything else has come easy, to help around the house, to treat her better, to be more engaged in my life.
I like to write (used to do it for a local magazine) and I wrote down a summary of what I think for her. This is it:
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I'm tired of talking. I've been talking my whole life trying to explain myself and describe what I'm feeling. It's never worked right and doesn't satisfy me. It never did, and I don't know why I keep doing it. I'm going to consciously stop. When I'm with you, I'm going to replace it with actions.
And instead I am going to write to you. I write much better than I talk.
This is what I think and wanted to tell you, concisely. Some of it I've told you before, but I wanted to get it all down in one place, for now.
- It would be best if you were happy.
- It would be best if I were happy.
- We are married, and it would be best if we happily stayed husband and wife.
- It would be best if our family stayed whole.
- We should be in love together.
- It would be better if would let go of your anger and resentment towards me about the past. Yes, I did bad things. I was angry, dishonest, lazy, controlling, and critical. But judge me for who I am now, not who I was. I can't change the past, and when you hold on to those bad feelings they hurt you. I know my bad feelings, my anger and resentment, hurt me, and when I've let them go I feel better and can feel better towards you. It can be difficult, I know. I am not completely over them, either.
- It could be better if you would try with me to be a loving couple again. Even if we don't feel it in our hearts right away, we can consciously do kind and loving things to each other until we build back our good feelings. I'm certain that once we build back our good feelings, everything else will become easier. I wish you would trust me on this. We've got nothing to lose, because if it doesn't work we're feeling the same as we do now, and if it works, we have good feelings again. Right now this is very important to me, because I am starved of affection, both giving and getting. Even if it doesn't feel just right in the beginning, we could try until it does. Of all the things I've written here, I feel this is the most critical for us at this time. This lack is what has been the most detrimental to my efforts of reconciliation.
- It would be better if, for now, we would give up on any other ideas other than working together to reconcile our relationship and marriage. This is my fear: by directing our mental energy towards other outcomes, we're potentially building a self-fulfilling prophecy. Please, give up those thoughts. Right now there is nothing to be gained by them. Just don't consider it an option right now and it won't be. That's what I have done, and it's made constructively moving forward easier for me.
- I wish you would trust me more. I've done a lot of reading and research, been counseled, and found much of it exceptionally helpful. I'm confident I know what I'm doing.
-It would be better if I could trust you more. I still have to resist the urge to check up on you, to pry and spy. I've done well resisting, but reassurances from you would be helpful to me, if you like. I try not to dwell on the extraneous circumstances in our relationship, but it can be exceptionally difficult. You may not understand that.
- It would be better if I didn't pursue and use physical proximity to feel close to you. I have already assuaged much of this, and I think if we we're attempting to be a couple again, as above, I would feel more confident and this would no longer be an issue.
- Our relationship has gotten better over the last two and a half extremely rocky months. I do see you 'trying' and accepting/tolerating much of what I'm doing. I appreciate that more than you'll ever know. Things can and do get better if we give them time.
- Time. We need time. Two and a half months is not enough time to do anything beyond get through the crazy time. But we're worth it, me and you, and our family is worth it, to have that patience. I am working to try and make our home life happy and harmonious with lots of good will, so that having patience is easier. And we do seem to have made our home life less stressful. Thank you. If there are other things I can do to make home life easier and more peaceful for you, you can let me know if you like.
- I have worked hard and am trying to change myself for the better. This has been done in the context of being a better person for you and my family. I am not making promises, but I tell you that I have every intention of forever abandoning these negative behaviors I previously displayed: rage, depression, manipulation, obsession, pessimism, outbursts, anxiousness, disrespect, laziness, carelessness, thoughtlessness, and dishonesty. The dishonesty has been difficult for me to get a handle on, for I've discovered that you can be dishonest even when you don't actively lie. But I'm trying my hardest to stop saying anything that could be construed as a lie or exaggeration, even if it means curtailing some of my true stories.
I wish I could write one of these letters now that I have a better understanding of where we are in our R. But I burned too many bridges with all those short-novel-type letters I would send my W in the begging and cajoling phase I was going through earlier. She said if I sent one more of “those emails” to her, she would immediately send it to the deleted items folder, unread... sigh.
Forgiveness is the release of all hope for a better past. – Alexa Young
Then last night I made a date for us at a good Italian restaurant we've never been to. Dinner was very good, and we had a good time talking to each other, and it was relaxed. When we got home we did some puttering around, and then I went to lay down on the bed and read some haikus. She joined me and we read some to each other. It was nice. Then I asked her the question she has been asking me at this point in the evening, "Is there something you wanted to do?" I said yes, and said, "If it starts to bother you, tell me to stop and I will. If you want to reciprocate, I'd like that." Then I proceeded to just run my fingers over her uncovered skin, like I like to do, for probably 40 minutes or so. It feels good, for me and her. I undressed her, and eventually she was naked while I stroked her. She touched me back from time to time. She never stopped me, and we ended up having sex. She gave clear indications that's what she wanted (physical and verbal). It felt really good. It seemed like she really liked it, too. The only thing is I never kissed her on the mouth, something she often still seems uncomfortable with. Afterwards, she cried lightly for a bit and held my hand the whole time. I was tempted to ask why she was crying, but I just held her hand instead. We then slept naked together, which we haven't done in maybe a year.
This morning was pleasant, I made her a fried egg and coffee, put a rose on her pillow while she was showering, and we gave each other a peck goodbye when she dropped me off.
So, I have no idea what to make of this, or maybe just some idea. Obviously you can't fix a relationship with one happy night ending in sex. But it has to be a good thing, doesn't it? I can't help but think that if she didn't plan to truly try she wouldn't let me give her so much affection. I think that if she lets me get this close to her, I can make it all work, because both of us are "touchy" people, in that we get a lot of satisfaction from physical contact. And to a certain degree I may have seduced her last night. I've never thought of me that way, but I may have inadvertantly become seductive towards her. I don't know if that's bad or good or just is.
Now I'm more motivated then ever, though. I feel like I'm getting the chance I wanted, and I'm going to take full advantage of it and give Laurie the unconditional love she deserves, and the man she always wanted when she got married.
Oh, and I haven't shown her the letter I posted above yet. I'm going to put some DB goals at the end to share with her when I feel shes ready.
OH, what a great night--I can see why it would encourage you. Please be cautious however. You're right, one night doesn't cure what ails you. You have to take it really slow. She still needs time. The things in the letter are really good, but you should keep it for you right now. There are some things in there that point out to her what you think she "should" do and what you "should" do together. Remember, that kind of stuff is all about you and there's nothing wrong with it, but if you share it with her she is going to see every negative she can find in it, and she will. Actions speak louder than words. Don't tell her what changes you want to make or will make, just do it. She has to see and feel it. I know you want to tell her--I wanted so much to keep telling my H what I was going to do and how I was going to be different, but none of it stuck until I actually did it. So keep your letter to remind you of what you will do to make things better. Great goals in the letter already.
Keep up those nice dates--don't push. Be respectful and keep letting her decide what happens as far as physical touch. My H doesn't kiss either, he never has much. Just the pecks when we are separating for the day. He actually thinks it is gross like sharing a toothbrush. He won't let me drink off his straw or water bottle either. Weird!!! It is disappointing to me cuz I like kissing, but I have to respect his feelings about it. I can't make him like it.
Anyway I hope I'm making sense. I really don't think the letter is a good idea. Most DBers will tell you that too. We've all wanted to do it at some point, but we realize it is for ourselves, not for them. It is to make us feel better and maybe get them to have a miraculous change of heart over night. It doesn't work that way. It will take time. My and H and I were separated for a year. It took me many months to make my changes and I still have to work on it everyday.
>> I really don't think the letter is a good idea. Most DBers will tell you that too. <<
I think know that, too, and have not given it to her because it's not the right thing. And it's just one step away from talking, which gets me into trouble almost every time.
I will, at some point, share my DBing goals with her as per the DR book. I just don't think we're ready for that either.
>> My H doesn't kiss either, he never has much. Just the pecks when we are separating for the day. <<
Yes, my wife is similar, although when she's been aroused she accepts more, but not near what I enjoy. She's just not into the kissing as much as me. I could make out for an hour.
One other little worry I now have is that because it's been so long since we've been intimate that I've got a hair trigger. I've never had that happen before, so it's not something I know how to deal with.
Ug. When went home together to talk to a contractor about home improvements, and we felt so much like a couple, making the decisions together, having lunch beforehand, being like we were in the "good times," that I got carried away.
All day I've been wanting to ask her how she felt about last night, did she like it and what did it mean to her, and I did a good job and bit my tongue and didnt' even mention it. But then when she went to go back to work I tapped her on the shoulder and gave her a kiss while holding her face in hands. She was receptive, but the look on her face was, well, not really a grimace but not really blank, either. I felt so good towards her, which I wish I could act upon in some way because it helps me lose my bad feelings, but I know it's not fair if she doesn't enjoy it too and feel the same about it.
Sigh. Now I feel bad for doing it.
She'll be home in two hours and we're going to have dinner and do some yard work. I'll have to be on my best behaviour and not press, not pursue, not talk. I can do it. I will treat her with the respect she deserves.
