Quote: Actually, I think there's a fair amount of hope that H will change (50/50 chance at least). I just think it will take something big to jolt him into it.
Like what an electrical shock? Really though, I see some improvements, I really do.
Saturday evening, he asked about the trip to MI again. The highlights of the conversation were that I will be staying with my parents, that my sister wasn't even going to be there, that I am not making any promises to refrain from social situations or bars for the rest of my life and that I fully understand his concerns and his lack of trust for me. I explained to him that I understand his doubts and I also understand that my A is something that is never going to go away~it will always lurk in the shadows. And that is even more reason that I cannot agree to living a sheltered life~b/c I surely won't live that way forever. The healing and the appropriate handling of things has to begin now. He mentioned again me putting myself in an environment where bad things can happen. I told him that when a M is not going well and one is susceptible to an A, it can happen anywhere. People meet people at their places of work, where they go to school, a single parent at their children's school, who knows, the list is endless. And all of those influences cannot be controlled. Outside in is the wrong approach; it has be to be inside out. Has to be. He mentioned not being sure of what was going on with us and I was pretty blunt in saying that the future was very uncertain. That I was making no guarantees and expected none from him. Our R has been very volatile and my A could still very well be the downfall of our M depending on how we go forward. I told him that right now, my goal is just to try to rebuild the trust between us, make some good memories and try to make the good times outweigh the bad. By the end of the conversation, he acknowledged that my family wasn't the problem and that all he was asking was that I didn't purposely leave him behind so that I could go out alone. Wonderful. We talked a great deal about my sister and that just being a social person and having a strong [unconscious] desire to be the center of attention does not mean she's disrespectful, that's just her personality. He acknowledged that it may just be her personality and that perhaps he shouldn't be so concerned with it. Finally some progress on these issues!! I felt really good about standing by my beliefs and in the end, I felt like we had come to an agreement whereby I had maintained my self respect and my own sense of power (in a good way) in our R. Really good stuff.
Another interesting thing to mention is that he is adamant that he has been supportive of my karate class He said the only problem he has ever had is how frequently I go. Now, I know that is BS. However, I think that by focusing on the fact that this is BS, I would be missing the point that he now feels the need to glaze over the fact that he *hasn't* been supportive. Meaning that basically, he knows he's been an a@@. Ideally, he would admit that and say that he's going to be better about it. But, some change is better than no change and it seems that he may finally be willing to let go of this issue as well.
He also didn't seem as opposed to going out and spending time together as a couple as he has in the past. When the issue came up, he resisted at first and I became *very* serious b/c I'm not going forward in a R for very long where that is the case. He said, "Well, our R is sort of a different story now". I said, "How so H, how is our R in such a different place now where spending time alone together would not be a good thing for us?" He backpedaled and said he could see where it would be. Standing my ground seems to be working quite well so far. So, all in all, I think there are some positve things going on here and I haven't even mentioned the most obvious positive~that communication is actually transpiring between us!! We're by no means good at it yet, but I'm very aware of the dynamics now and am trying very hard to lead the way. Maybe someday we'll fully realize the benefit of exchanging ideas and thoughts the way normal people do, ya think??
I just hope that these positives can continue once he comes home.....the idea that things will get confusing and difficult again is looming over my head.
Bud, hopefully I won't have to move on to steps two and three. Time will tell. Thanks for your patience with me!!
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Wow! You really set out some boundaries! And he responded!!! Like a toddler, maybe he has been seeking those boundaries all the time... acting out until you firmly put them down.
And excellent job drawing out of him his true fears that make him so controlling. How were you communicating differently to get this instead of his usual derisive self?
Just be sure to retain the ground you've gained. You've expressed some very reasonable boundaries and no matter what he might try to change, there is no reason to go back on them.
Quote: Like a toddler, maybe he has been seeking those boundaries all the time... acting out until you firmly put them down.
That could be. I remember back when he used to dictate things like what I could wear, etc. and I finally decided that wasn't going to happen anymore, he fought me every step of the way on that. But, I kept going with it and he has told me that he knows he is a better person for it. So.....perhaps you are right.
I read that one of the characteristics of a controller sometimes is simply that they "care more", i.e. they are just more passionate and have stronger opinions on things whereas the other partner truly may not care and so they go along. I think that this dynamic has played a part in our R, as H has *always* had strong opinions on just about everything and I am way more laid back. So, there are a lot of things that I just go without b/c H *dislikes* them more than I *like* them. I don't think he's all evil.
Quote: How were you communicating differently to get this instead of his usual derisive self?
I think I have been a lazy communicator in the past. It's been hard for me to get my point across, not just with H but with others as well b/c I hadn't taken the time to articulate my thoughts. I guess I always thought communication was supposed to be easy and it is only now that I am realizing that it takes thought and even planning sometimes. An awareness of certain bad habits we have such as frequently changing topics and being verbally abusive. I have stopped any name calling and also point out every time he calls me a name or does something else disrespectful like saying "shut up" or "you're delusional". Calling him on it may make him realize how often he really does it and may make him feel the need to stop. I have also tried really hard to remain calm even when my instinct is to raise my voice. Listening and validating are also two skills that I'm nursing, although I'm doing better with the former than the latter and still talking way too much. I feel like I've come so far but really haven't made super progress, which really just tells me how far in the red I was when it comes to communication and holding up against H's communication style or lack thereof, lol.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Bud, hopefully I won't have to move on to steps two and three. Time will tell.
Indeed. It sounds like he's made more progress than I'd have expected; congratulations! Maybe you're really starting to establish a new view of you in his mind. You've certainly done the right things. Your interactions were firm without being mean and you didn't let him off the hook when he tried to squirm. Nice.
When is he coming home?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
Quote: It sounds like he's made more progress than I'd have expected
I need to keep in mind though that these interactions about MI have been about his needs, so it makes sense that he would be willing to discuss it. We'll see how he reacts next time there is an issue that I need to discuss. My guess is that he probably won't be as open or as "friendly", but we'll see. That will be the real test of how much progress he has made. Right now he's probably just trying to get his way, but not come across as though he lost when I stood my ground. Gosh I'm a pessimist aren't I?? I feel positive but also skeptical and cautious, which I guess is good.
Last night as I was falling asleep, I was thinking about Anna's question some more, about what I've been doing differently to get H to respond in a better way. Assuming he is responding better and not just displaying the behavior I mentioned above, I realized that I've been doing quite a bit differently in the way of not being an open book. I found the GAL and the mystery part of DBing a bit confusing at first since I am the one who cheated. You can't really be all mysterious when you're the cheater, lol, not if you want things to work anyway. But I realized that in the past, I've always been WIDE open. I told H everything and called him frequently. Looking back, I realized that I did most of the talking, which was fine with H, but it never gave me the good feeling of having him ask me something or initiate conversations. Since he's been gone, I have only called him a couple of times and then it was just to share a nice thought I was having about the kids or something cute they did, nothing about me or my day or my feelings. I've found that it is filling the "mystery" part of DBing while not negating trust.
H comes home this Friday night. It will be weird. For instance, the daycare issue. Is he going to pick up where he left off with that, insisting on taking the kids every day? My plan is to act "as if" I'm taking them to daycare. I don't have a backup plan in case there is a confrontation about it~any ideas?
I have a feeling he will be on good behavior when he gets back though, which may make it easier to work back into the old daycare routine. He'll be on good behavior b/c he won't want to start any fights right before we go on vacation.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Here is the daycare issue Bud, for your reading pleasure....the daycare stuff starts about the 11th post down on the page. I apologize in advance b/c you might have thought I was somewhat normal until you read about some of our interactions. I forgot that you didn't really "arrive" at the boards until my H had gone to northern VA for work. I've been able to breathe and live my life like a normal person since he's left and since you've known me. It's like night and day compared to where we were the week before he left.....after reading you will probably have much greater insight as to why I'm anxious for him to come home.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Ah, I see. I read some of that thread, perhaps I didn't get as far as I thought.
My guess is that if you act as if, he won't react. The spell is broken, so to speak, because you've been taking them while he's been gone. If he jumps right back in to "not allowing" you to do things, that would be a big red flag. I'd be surprised if he goes there.
OTOH, do you want to take them all the time again? If you'd prefer another plan, like alternating days, you probably want to bring it up ahead of time and get the schedule ironed out. Perhaps you have higher priority items you want to discuss with him and this can wait, but the sooner the better.
BTW, does he still have his "drinking nights"? If so, is he still drinking O'Douls?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
What if your Plan B is to act "as-if" you are already partners in parenting your kids? And act as if his wanting to take them to daycare is his way of helping you... (let's face it, this has become a power struggle, cuz it ain't like driving to daycare is the most fulfilling part of parenthood)
example... he says he wants to take them in the morning.
Heather "Really? Wow... gosh, thanks. It really will be a treat to get that extra half hour sleep in the morning. You'd do that for me? Tell you what... you do so much work with the kids I'm gonna find a way to give you a little "me time" too. Hmmm... how about Thursday nights I take them to *** (restaurant, playzone, mall... wherever would be fun) so that you can do whatever you want also."
Act like you are a pair of loving marrieds who are just looking for ways to make each other's lives better (maybe you can trick him into making it the truth ). And then you can get a little alone-time with the kids too, plus a sleep-in.
I like Anna's suggestions. Sorry I didn't respond to your questions, I think I missed a whole page there--gee and I thought I was keeping up.
One thing I want to say, I don't want to offend anyone, but I have noticed that the men in my life tend to give this kind of answer to my problem, "Leave him." Now, while this is concise and to the point, it's just not always that easy. That said, you'll know....you will know.
I was thinking, along Anna's line, what would happen if you ASKED him to take the kids to day care? "Hon, do you think you could take the kids to daycare tomorrow (or Tuesday, or Friday, or whatever)? I can pick them up, but it would be really great if you could drop them off." Now, I'm not in your shoes, so I'm not sure how this has gotten to be such a big thing, but I know it is for you. It's a power struggle, a control thing--for both of you. You're a great mother Heather, just give yourself a little credit.
As for when the lights go out, stock up on flashlights. If the toilet overflows, drag out the towels and get a plunger. You can do anything you set your mind to Heather. I know that if I can trim hedges and work the weed whipper, you can grill a steak.
Each experience in life has formed me, become part of me, made me stronger.
He said the only problem he has ever had is how frequently I go. Now, I know that is BS. However, I think that by focusing on the fact that this is BS, I would be missing the point that he now feels the need to glaze over the fact that he *hasn't* been supportive. Meaning that basically, he knows he's been an 
). And then you can get a little alone-time with the kids too, plus a sleep-in.